Saw these “craftsman “ adjustable wrenches on flea bay today, and thought there sure is a lot of new old stock Western forge adjustable wrenches........ until I saw the small print, MADE IN CHINA. New Chinese craftsman tools aren’t new news but these new Chinese adjustable wrenches are almost direct copies of the US made Western forge wrenches, obviously sears and Western forge had a very public falling out towards the end of their business dealings but this looks like flat out stealing theft of the Western forge designed adjustable wrenches.
Sears blatantly stealing Western forge design
- Thread starter plumber84
- Start date
fartymarty
Well-known member
I guess I'm missing the point here.
It's an adjustable wrench. People have been stealing the design since the late 1800s haven't they? I still refer to them as a Cresent wrench and they didn't invent it either. If I understand the history, Western Forge wouldn't exist without Sears (the original Sears that is). Perhaps (likely) I'm missing some special feature of the WF design that makes their wrenches better?
It's an adjustable wrench. People have been stealing the design since the late 1800s haven't they? I still refer to them as a Cresent wrench and they didn't invent it either. If I understand the history, Western Forge wouldn't exist without Sears (the original Sears that is). Perhaps (likely) I'm missing some special feature of the WF design that makes their wrenches better?
What I’m saying is it looks as though sears has deliberately had these wrenches made to look all but identical to the WF wrenches with omission of The USA txt in a blatant attempt to pass them of as WF made ie; made in USA when in the very fine print it says china
anndel
Well-known member
I stopped going to Sears over 10 years ago. Their sales people are dumb and rude plus all their Craftsman stuff was made in china.
99% of people that buy their adjustables care neither about a specific design, WF or US made
BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
Those are typical dime store branded tools made by by Chinese copycat artists. Very common practice that can also be found in NAPA, Harbor Freight, and similar dime stores selling ""store branded"" tools.
Finance Guy
Well-known member
I think Sears owned the designs for most (all?) Craftsman tool designs. No different than the traditional acetate handle screwdrivers that are now imported.
fartymarty
Well-known member
OK, I understand your point now. Thanks.
All I’m saying is that sears actions in this case are deceptive at best and damn right theft at worse, given that they could have chosen any ATG design of adjustable wrench but instead chose to imitate the WF design/pattern because of its association with MIUSA
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You could say that any of the current offerings from sears craftsman. The Breaker bars, raised panel wrenches, raised panel ratchets all at first glance look like the same USA made tools from several years ago.
It's not until you touch or hold them and take a closer look that things aren't the same anymore.
fartymarty
Well-known member
Well I thought I understood you the first time you clarified it, but again thanks for coming back to post about it. (so many don't bother even once)
However, do we know if perhaps the WF Craftsman were made to Sears' specifications and design, and that maybe Sears Craftsman has every right to continue the same design elsewhere as long as the proper country or origin is addressed? Or are we just assuming from previous Sears history that New Sears is trying to fool us and rip off Western Forge?
Perhaps I'm still missing the point of your passion. I think that anybody shopping at Sears specifically for a USA WF made wrench would be knowledgeable enough to understand that things might have changed a bit at Sears and investigate their purchase and either not buy it or return it if it's that important to them. Those not concerned about specifics of manufacture aren't even going to know it's of similar (or exact if you prefer) design and buy it solely on price point and warranty. It's a̶ ̶C̶r̶e̶s̶e̶n̶t̶ an adjustable wrench, sometimes used as a hammer, not a rip off of a USA made high tech laser guided robotic arm with a Craftsman cordless drill in it's hand.
Handyandy23
Well-known member
You could say that any of the current offerings from sears craftsman. The Breaker bars, raised panel wrenches, raised panel ratchets all at first glance look like the same USA made tools from several years ago.
It's not until you touch or hold them and take a closer look that things aren't the same anymore.
^This.
All those raised panel wrenches and ratchets have been sold for years made overseas after the original Made in USA versions.
Adjustable wrenches are nothing new, this has been how Craftsman operates for years. Keep their "signature" look but make them cheaper.
I highly doubt there's anything illegal about it, or else they'd already have been in court numerous times. But if it's a practice that bothers you then avoid all the new Craftsman stuff.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
Yeah, I think you are way over reacting. I don't think there is a single other person in the world who would go "Ah yes, this looks just like my favorite western forge manufactured craftsman adjustable wrench".
I can promise you that for 99% of tool users, an adjustable wrench is an adjustable wrench. No one is taking notes of the specific pattern.
I can promise you that for 99% of tool users, an adjustable wrench is an adjustable wrench. No one is taking notes of the specific pattern.
Professional Tool User
Well-known member
You are pushing an irrelevant point. The average DIYer doesn't even know that WF exists. Those of us who care about whether or not it's made in USA would just look for WF and USA markings on the tool. They have probably been using the same design for who knows how long. By this line of logic, Sears would have gotten rid of those crude raised panels on their tools. And if you really want to talk about knock offs, everyone else has been knocking off Bahco for 100 years. They were the ones who invented the adjustable wrench, so don't you dare call it a crescent wrench.
+1
I can't see a single feature that distinguishes one brand from another. CM used to have a LARGE thumbwheel, and later a Locking thumbwheel, but those features seem to have been abandoned to emulate all the other brands.
Holly ****... it looks like the set of Kobalt ones I have .... hmmmm this is bad.... they stole/steal/ and blatantly robs ..........
well at least it's not as silly as suing for the color... I forgot who did that...
I think Milwaukee should sue the new craftsman for the copying their red color... yup.... yup...
well at least it's not as silly as suing for the color... I forgot who did that...
I think Milwaukee should sue the new craftsman for the copying their red color... yup.... yup...
Its funny that I just came back from HD and Lowes... both have a lot of tools in red color like some one's blood got splattered all over the tools... after a while of dazzed in the isles, you would have forgot if you are looking at a Milwaukee or the New Craftsman.... I left without buying anything.... What a ******. I hope one of them sue the other one, just to get rid of the confusing color RED... Flocking Wankers...
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Maybe the OP broke all his coveted WF Adjustable wrenches and was desperately searching for identical replacements?
thesilverone
Well-known member
at this point....who cares
I think Sears owns the design patents and has companies contract produce the designs. This allows them to multi source if necessary but the tool will look nearly identical.
Not sure why it’s a big deal. This is common practice in retail. I worked retail for a long time, it was incredibly common to have 3-4 suppliers of private label stuff. Most likely Sears owns the general design and can shop it around (well an adjustable wrench has existed for ages, but the general cosmetic design of the current offering). I’m pretty sure they had Companion label imports before they shifted Craftsman overseas with the same design.
Not sure why it’s a big deal. This is common practice in retail. I worked retail for a long time, it was incredibly common to have 3-4 suppliers of private label stuff. Most likely Sears owns the general design and can shop it around (well an adjustable wrench has existed for ages, but the general cosmetic design of the current offering). I’m pretty sure they had Companion label imports before they shifted Craftsman overseas with the same design.
ganymede
Well-known member
for a while WF was supplying them for Channelock too.
Mechanical Noise
Well-known member
Sears is making their new adjustable wrenches look like their old adjustables?!?
THIS IS EDDIE LAMPERT'S BIGGEST OUTRAGE YET!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS EDDIE LAMPERT'S BIGGEST OUTRAGE YET!!!!!!!!!!
measuredtwice
Well-known member
Lots of companies have done this... and for many years. I think the packaging says "Made in China". What I think is unfortunate is that online dealers get away with hiding the COO. Seems silly that manufacturers are required to state the COO but online stores aren't. Most shopping is done online.
cgv69
Well-known member
A. They don't look identical to me but most Cresent style wrenches do look similar
B. Unless WF has some type of patent on them, anybody is free to copy them if they want.
C. Its pretty well established that the Chinese don't mind copying whatever they feel like, patented or not.
D. IMO...Buying Chinese or India made tools is dumb, regardless of who's name is on it or what it costs. You want decent quality tools on the cheap, stick with Taiwanese made tools.
B. Unless WF has some type of patent on them, anybody is free to copy them if they want.
C. Its pretty well established that the Chinese don't mind copying whatever they feel like, patented or not.
D. IMO...Buying Chinese or India made tools is dumb, regardless of who's name is on it or what it costs. You want decent quality tools on the cheap, stick with Taiwanese made tools.
hmmm, not sure if it is the water or just the heat, people are just not thinking logically or something with the crowds they hang out with..... the Chinese don't mind copying, but when a company that sells the copy infringed product they can get sued... especially bigger companies like Sears... Take HF Daytona Jack as an example... some one "Felt" that they were copying and Some one sued... guess what happened......
In this case some saw a similar looking products then accused Sears of stealing from WF over the internet, most likely judge Dredd.. Some one else saw the COO "Made In China" in this post then accused the Chinese of Copying ...... Not sure how to interpret this...Manufacturer manufactures... they take an order of a product customer designed, or they designed and requested, they manufacture to specifications... no matter what country you go to...
In this case some saw a similar looking products then accused Sears of stealing from WF over the internet, most likely judge Dredd.. Some one else saw the COO "Made In China" in this post then accused the Chinese of Copying ...... Not sure how to interpret this...Manufacturer manufactures... they take an order of a product customer designed, or they designed and requested, they manufacture to specifications... no matter what country you go to...
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Please God, can we stop having threads about ******* SEARS!!!
isb cornbinder
Well-known member
Thank Goodness that retailer with an S in their name is gone in Canada. I dislike any memory or mention of them. The terrible story of their leaving Canada is well documented. Management took care of themselves and the employees lost so much.
Parrothead
Well-known member
Other than it was a part of most people’s introduction to tools, sure.
I can't see how. I mean, things like Allen wrenches?
dougdoberman
Member
Could we please limit our indignation about someone making a tool that looks just like the way EVERYONE has made that tool for the last bazillion years to a tool that matters, instead of a Crescent wrench which, 99.9% of the time isn't the ideal tool for the task?
I've got a drawer of like two dozen of them, which is about one for each of the times I've chosen to use one over the last few decades. I don't know where they come from. They just amass like flies. Whenever a new one shows up, it gets tossed in the drawer that's dusty and only shows my fingerprints from the last time I opened it to toss one in.
I've got a drawer of like two dozen of them, which is about one for each of the times I've chosen to use one over the last few decades. I don't know where they come from. They just amass like flies. Whenever a new one shows up, it gets tossed in the drawer that's dusty and only shows my fingerprints from the last time I opened it to toss one in.
That’s exactly how I feel about Snap On threads..
Just saw on the news, they're finally demolishing the huge empty Sears store, in Fort Wayne.
Let the healing begin.
FWIW, I must be out of touch, for in the 55 years I have seen/used maybe a hundred different brands of adjustable wrenches, I had no idea there were different "designs", since they all looked and functioned nearly exactly the same.
I do come here to learn.
Now, where did I leave those anxiety meds?
Let the healing begin.
FWIW, I must be out of touch, for in the 55 years I have seen/used maybe a hundred different brands of adjustable wrenches, I had no idea there were different "designs", since they all looked and functioned nearly exactly the same.
I do come here to learn.
Now, where did I leave those anxiety meds?
rick carpenter
Well-known member
davethorik
Well-known member
That does look like a direct ripoff of slightly older craftsman usa wf wrenches. I bet Sears handed them to Chinese factories and they went to work.
That being said, does WF do imports? There have been a couple threads about adjustable wrenches recently, and as far as I know WF is it for USA made adjustable wrenches. All the other companies that had their own adjustables (Proto, Williams) scrapped their designs and either went Irega, Bahco imports or WF. As far as I can tell.
That being said, does WF do imports? There have been a couple threads about adjustable wrenches recently, and as far as I know WF is it for USA made adjustable wrenches. All the other companies that had their own adjustables (Proto, Williams) scrapped their designs and either went Irega, Bahco imports or WF. As far as I can tell.
Actually Sears really did steal one guys design and patent, and nearly bankrupted him, Loggerhead tools Bionic Wrench. For the record they committed the theft in Concert with Apex tool group, here's the link to an old story about it, there are others ....
Amazingly, because I'm new here, I can't post the link but google, loggerhead tools sears stolen tool or something similar and the story will come. Shockingly, Sears and APEX won the lawsuit after initially looking like they lost and its on appeal now.
Amazingly, because I'm new here, I can't post the link but google, loggerhead tools sears stolen tool or something similar and the story will come. Shockingly, Sears and APEX won the lawsuit after initially looking like they lost and its on appeal now.
There was another guy, Pete Roberts who was a clerk at sears and invented the quick release ratchet in the 60's , Sears stole his patent and after years in court they settled the case in 1985:
"...Roberts was a clerk at a Sears store in Gardner, Mass., when he invented the wrench in his spare time. The wrench has a push button that permits removal of sockets from the tool with one hand. He obtained a patent for the wrench design in 1965, and Sears paid him $10,000 for rights to the patent. He then joined the Air Force. While stationed in England, he saw a Sears catalogue and was astounded at the display the wrench got because, he said, Sears led him to believe the tool had only minor sales potential. But from 1965 to 1975, Sears sold 19 million of the wrenches for a net profit of more than $44 million, according to documents in the case. In 1969, Roberts sued seeking to rescind the agreement under which he assigned the patent to the company. A federal jury in 1978 awarded him $1 million after finding that Sears fraudulently obtained the patent. .."
"...Roberts was a clerk at a Sears store in Gardner, Mass., when he invented the wrench in his spare time. The wrench has a push button that permits removal of sockets from the tool with one hand. He obtained a patent for the wrench design in 1965, and Sears paid him $10,000 for rights to the patent. He then joined the Air Force. While stationed in England, he saw a Sears catalogue and was astounded at the display the wrench got because, he said, Sears led him to believe the tool had only minor sales potential. But from 1965 to 1975, Sears sold 19 million of the wrenches for a net profit of more than $44 million, according to documents in the case. In 1969, Roberts sued seeking to rescind the agreement under which he assigned the patent to the company. A federal jury in 1978 awarded him $1 million after finding that Sears fraudulently obtained the patent. .."