Sears circling the drain

[metaldad]

A much more interesting (and original) topic would have been “Holy ****! Sears is still open!”. Because this topic has been passed around like a bottle of Crown and worn out like a prophylactic on prom night.

i am sooooo going to add that to my quick retorts!.

 

[ragdoll]

I remember when I was a kid, walking through Sears or any other major department store was magical, especially at Christmas time. Unbelievably busy, bustling with customers, the store salespeople dressed to the nines. The display cases were cleanly polished, and the lines at the registers were a half hour wait sometimes! Just to check out, we’d patiently stand there. Often times my mother would make small talk with total strangers also standing in line. The lights, the music, the fragrances, such a strong memory of all that.

Just seems odd and a little sad the millennial generation and those that follow will only experience “add to cart” button while sitting on the couch at home.

So true

 

[Coach James]

1. Sears' problems began in the early 1970's, long before Eddie Lampert was hired.

2. A lot of the companies success was due to their being little competition between the end of WWII and 1970. Sears was the primary one stop shop for the entire country.

3. In the early 1970's specialty chains and big box chains appeared and Sears began losing market share. Earnings growth slowed then became stagnant. Much like the how the American auto industry and steel industry had little competition between WWII and 1970. Then competition appeared, both industries lost market share and never got it back.


4. The appliance business was the main money maker for Sears. Lowes, HD and Circuit City took a huge portion of the appliance business from Sears permanently. HD was squeezing their appliance suppliers on price and killing Sears in appliance sales growth.

5. Sears could not afford to continue selling American made tools at the low prices at which they were selling them. Despite what some on here claim, mass consumers were not going to pay a higher price for Made in the USA tools. Lowes tried it with their Williams made Kobalt and it was a failure.

6. Sears was the go to place for the WWII generation, but to a lot of boomers and generations following, Sears was where old people shopped. Women's apparel was never a money maker for Sears and it got worse as niche clothing chains opened in the 80's. Sears tried marketing campaigns to attract younger women and failed just as JC Penney tried and failed.

7. I'm old enough to remember going to Sears when it was still downtown, before it moved to "the mall" and smelling the popcorn and the candy counter, the store at Christmas and all the stuff people seem to feel nostalgia for. I also remember the buzz in the community when Circuit City and Lowes opened up. Now there was a choice other than Sears and the sacred mom and pop stores for appliances and so began the downfall of Sears.

Eddie Lampert wasn't responsible for any of that. He may be whatever bad things people want to say about him, but the idea that Sears was just a tweak away from returning to retail glory until Eddie showed up is not anywhere close to accurate.

Coach

 

[Moparman390]

I'm going to miss Sears too but we don't need the same thread every week mourning the loss, that's not what the OP started it as and I was objecting to that. Maybe we need maybe a Sears memories perma-thread or something. These threads frequently turn into a rip on Seasrs/Craftsman/China fest, which is what the OP started it as and I'm sick of those. I stand by the we should lay off the Sears is failing/Craftsman ***** merry-go-round threads until something new happens. I think Dad's anger is mis-directed.

 

[visionguru]

....Problem is we are awash in CHINESE made garbage, Sears at the time was one of the last places that actually carried a lot of made in USA products.

Sears would have had no problems competing if they had a website like their catalog and continued to carry QUALITY over some CHINESE quantity garbage.

If quantity was the answer to everything then the USA would not be a 100 TRILLION in debt.

I am wondering if you ever shopped at Sears, but you are just commenting.

FYI, Sears still carries lots of Made in USA stuff! Hammers, pliers, screw drivers, specialty tools.....

I looked some pliers at Sears, the quality is better in fit and finish than my favorite brand: Channellock. "Garbage"? Care to share your experience on any of their "garbage" products? You seem to think you are too good for Sears tools. How about show us the "garbage" you are using?

Sears may going down fast, sad. As of today, Craftsman is still better than any of the chain store brands.

 

[vssjim]

I am wondering if you ever shopped at Sears, but you are just commenting.

FYI, Sears still carries lots of Made in USA stuff! Hammers, pliers, screw drivers, specialty tools.....

I looked some pliers at Sears, the quality is better in fit and finish than my favorite brand: Channellock. "Garbage"? Care to share your experience on any of their "garbage" products? You seem to think you are too good for Sears tools. How about show us the "garbage" you are using?

Sears may going down fast, sad. As of today, Craftsman is still better than any of the chain store brands.

Not to pile on but the screwdrivers and pliers are now china made too only old stock that was Western Forge was US made .

I do look to see what SBD will do with the tool line in the future

 

[visionguru]

Not to pile on but the screwdrivers and pliers are now china made too only old stock that was Western Forge was US made .

I do look to see what SBD will do with the tool line in the future

More than 1/2 of my tools are Craftsman, acquired during the last 20 years, mostly Made in USA, some Made in China.

To be fair, Craftsman's quality has remained about the same. Those Made in USA tools (ratchets, sockets, wrenches, ....) are not that great before. I actually find some Made in China tools better, such as ratchets, wrenches.

Made in China or Made in USA has almost NOTHING to do with Sears' downfall. Actually, I think Sears can last this long partly because they found lower cost suppliers in China, or they may have already went belly long ago.

Outside GJ and those relying on tools for their living, regular people wouldn't even paying attention to COO. If someone thinks "Made in USA" will make people lining up buying, that's wishful thinking. Price/Quality is the king, nothing else matters.

 

[four.cycle]

Outside GJ and those relying on tools for their living, regular people wouldn't even paying attention to COO. If someone thinks "Made in USA" will make people lining up buying, that's wishful thinking. Price/Quality is the king, nothing else matters.

^ Quite true, but seemingly forgotten among the membership here.

Your last sentence isn't quite accurate. Along with price and quality, consumers want it now. Amazon's "buy now, get it in two days" deal is a game-changer.

 

[four.cycle]

Commercial real estate is massively overbuilt in the U.S. There are not enough tenants in other businesses (professional/medical offices, hair salons, ,gyms etc) etc) to take on even a fraction of what is soon to be former retail space.

It's going to have a huge negative effect on the entire economy since a lot of pension funds etc. "own" commercial real estate via REITS and other investments.

Half a century ago, the large retailers ("department stores") located in metropolitan core centers moved to suburban "shopping malls", which literally killed the economies of "downtown" urban centers. (Tacoma, Washington had one of the first "malls" built in the country.)
A couple decades later, massive "urban rehab" programs were started in an attempt to revive downtown cores: downtown Tacoma, "Pioneer Square" in Seattle, "Gastown" in Portland, Oregon, and I can't remember the name of the area in downtown Omaha.)
Later "strip malls" proliferated everywhere. Every arterial suddenly became an avenue of one-story store fronts peddling everything from furniture to fake fingernails.

Yet they continue to build these 'new' retail outlet buildings with billions of square footage of retail space for rent.
The only places filling these are the 'mega' chain hair cut places or some other crummy outfits.

Now the "malls" and "strip malls" are being abandoned as more people do their shopping online.
There's a "shopping center" right up the street from me that's been rebuilt half a dozen times over the last 50 years. Right now the big "anchor" store is a "Big Lots" retailer. The other little store fronts are peddling pizza, coffee, makeup, and take-out "Bento boxes"; all low-ticket stuff. Half of the retail space is empty (including a vacant restaurant.)
Directly across the street they just completed construction of a 10-unit retail shopping center, the "anchor" for which will be a Mexican restaurant (presumably because the Mexican restaurant across the street and the "Taco Bell" right next door apparently don't offer enough options for Mexican food.)

 

[IndyGarage]

Now the "malls" and "strip malls" are being abandoned as more people do their shopping online.
There's a "shopping center" right up the street from me that's been rebuilt half a dozen times over the last 50 years. Right now the big "anchor" store is a "Big Lots" retailer. The other little store fronts are peddling pizza, coffee, makeup, and take-out "Bento boxes"; all low-ticket stuff. Half of the retail space is empty (including a vacant restaurant.)
Directly across the street they just completed construction of a 10-unit retail shopping center, the "anchor" for which will be a Mexican restaurant (presumably because the Mexican restaurant across the street and the "Taco Bell" right next door apparently don't offer enough options for Mexican food.)

When your mall is anchored by Big Lots, they aren't even trying anymore.

Regarding Sears. I think the information age has killed them. Back when I was young, we thought Kenmore appliances were the best made, and that's what most people bought. We didn't know that Whirlpool made them -that seemed like an inferior brand.

We thought Craftsman tools were good, and there weren't many alternatives, so that's what most people bought. We didn't know there were better brands, and they weren't readily available, so you didn't worry about it.

You could go to Sears to buy almost anything you needed other than groceries - A mower, garden tools, a garden tractor with all the attachments, tools, power tools, clothes, towels, appliances. Sears, and the Sears catalog was a one-stop shop for almost everything - and, although the quality wasn't the best made, it was good enough and you didn't have to research much of anything - you couldn't research purchases back then anyway, so you went to sears and looked for "sears' best" and that would be fine.

 

[6PTsocket]

When your mall is anchored by Big Lots, they aren't even trying anymore.

Regarding Sears. I think the information age has killed them. Back when I was young, we thought Kenmore appliances were the best made, and that's what most people bought. We didn't know that Whirlpool made them -that seemed like an inferior brand.

We thought Craftsman tools were good, and there weren't many alternatives, so that's what most people bought. We didn't know there were better brands, and they weren't readily available, so you didn't worry about it.

You could go to Sears to buy almost anything you needed other than groceries - A mower, garden tools, a garden tractor with all the attachments, tools, power tools, clothes, towels, appliances. Sears, and the Sears catalog was a one-stop shop for almost everything - and, although the quality wasn't the best made, it was good enough and you didn't have to research much of anything - you couldn't research purchases back then anyway, so you went to sears and looked for "sears' best" and that would be fine.

I totally agree. I never thought of other places for tools. There was no HD, Lowes, HF or internet. At one point there was a tool store chain called US General. They opened a big store right across from Sears in Hicksville, LI. That was my first serious alternative.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[kythri]

The majority of the people today bitching about Sears sourcing Chinese-manufactured Craftsman are the same people that, 10 years ago, were bitching that Sears was charging too much for it's USA-manufactured Craftsman.

 

[DadsTools]

1. Sears' problems began in the early 1970's, long before Eddie Lampert was hired.

2. A lot of the companies success was due to their being little competition between the end of WWII and 1970. Sears was the primary one stop shop for the entire country.

3. In the early 1970's specialty chains and big box chains appeared and Sears began losing market share. Earnings growth slowed then became stagnant. Much like the how the American auto industry and steel industry had little competition between WWII and 1970. Then competition appeared, both industries lost market share and never got it back.


4. The appliance business was the main money maker for Sears. Lowes, HD and Circuit City took a huge portion of the appliance business from Sears permanently. HD was squeezing their appliance suppliers on price and killing Sears in appliance sales growth.

5. Sears could afford to continue selling American made tools at the low prices at which they were selling them. Despite what some on here claim, mass consumers were not going to pay a higher price for Made in the USA tools. Lowes tried it with their Williams made Kobalt and it was a failure.

6. Sears was the go to place for the WWII generation, but to a lot of boomers and generations following, Sears was where old people shopped. Women's apparel was never a money maker for Sears and it got worse as niche clothing chains opened in the 80's. Sears tried marketing campaigns to attract younger women and failed just as JC Penney tried and failed.

7. I'm old enough to remember going to Sears when it was still downtown, before it moved to "the mall" and smelling the popcorn and the candy counter, the store at Christmas and all the stuff people seem to feel nostalgia for. I also remember the buzz in the community when Circuit City and Lowes opened up. Now there was a choice other than Sears and the sacred mom and pop stores for appliances and so began the downfall of Sears.

Eddie Lampert wasn't responsible for any of that. He may be whatever bad things people want to say about him, but the idea that Sears was just a tweak away from returning to retail glory until Eddie showed up is not anywhere close to accurate.

Coach

There's a lot of truth in this. It's still a sad American loss.

 

[DadsTools]

I'm going to miss Sears too but we don't need the same thread every week mourning the loss, that's not what the OP started it as and I was objecting to that. Maybe we need maybe a Sears memories perma-thread or something. These threads frequently turn into a rip on Seasrs/Craftsman/China fest, which is what the OP started it as and I'm sick of those. I stand by the we should lay off the Sears is failing/Craftsman ***** merry-go-round threads until something new happens. I think Dad's anger is mis-directed.

There's certainly some truth here too, although 'anger' was not the only feelings I mentioned. And the feelings ARE real.

I think your suggestion of a reminiscent Sears thread is a good one. I really think that much of the Sears-bashing (or something similar to bashing) is due to the reasons I mentioned. I honestly feel that what I wrote may have helped to crystallize in people's minds what they were really feeling inside but just didn't have the words for it. I know it took me awhile to realize exactly why I felt so wounded about what's happened to Sears. Such a thread would provide an outlet for all these thoughts, and would be an appropriate venue for them.

And yes, Sears and Craftsman were such a big part of the American tool landscape that such a thread being permanently pinned could easily be justified.

Very thoughtful, Moparman390. Thank you.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Well said DadsTools.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

I order from other mail order companies, including Amazon, and Rockauto that do NOT tax shipping to my state. I have no idea what envoked your nasty response. People make all kinds of incorrect statements here but a civilized person can disagree without becoming unhinged. Please get back on your meds.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I had a similar thought 6PT.

 

[DadsTools]

There's certainly some truth here too, although 'anger' was not the only feelings I mentioned. And the feelings ARE real.

I think your suggestion of a reminiscent Sears thread is a good one. I really think that much of the Sears-bashing (or something similar to bashing) is due to the reasons I mentioned. I honestly feel that what I wrote may have helped to crystallize in people's minds what they were really feeling inside but just didn't have the words for it. I know it took me awhile to realize exactly why I felt so wounded about what's happened to Sears. Such a thread would provide an outlet for all these thoughts, and would be an appropriate venue for them.

And yes, Sears and Craftsman were such a big part of the American tool landscape that such a thread being permanently pinned could easily be justified.

Very thoughtful, Moparman390. Thank you.

I just started a thread under "Questions and Suggestions" recommending Moparman390's suggestion that we start a permanent sticky thread where members can express there opinions and comments, and to reminisce about what Sears and Craftsman once were. I think it's a great idea, but have no idea how that would come about. Let's see what happens.