Sears Going Down Fast

[rjvjeepster]

Yes they are! But I doubt Stanley will let this ride. It will be interesting to see what they do about it. For us, there's nothing better than a good old fashion price war. Can't wait...

x2

 

[Mechanical Noise]

You might want to retake econ 101: quality comes with a price. Sears of recent times or old times, their tools are still at least 1 grade higher than HF in terms of quality. If you think HF tools are of better quality than that of Sears, to be frank, you don't know much about tools after all.

The fact that HF is sourcing India made wrenches shows that HF will remain selling the same stuff as before.

I think the Pittsburgh Pro ratchets and screwdrivers are better than their Craftsman counterparts. The Pittsburgh Pro sockets seem at least as good and the sizes are stamped deeper, more uniformly and more clearly.

And I own both Craftsman and Pittsburgh Pro ratchets, sockets and screwdrivers. Can't say anything about the Pittsburgh wrenches as I don't own any.

 

[6PTsocket]

Hmmm

Massive red tool chests. Finely polished wrenches. Variety of diagnostic equipment. Screwdrivers with hard tips. Magnetic glove dispensers.

They already compete, pretty successfully, with the latter brands mentioned.

Try and get parts fo the 44" . No parts for anything under $400. I own the 44" top and bottom. I hope nothing breaks. An extended coverage plan is not worth much if they want you to drag that big brick back for an exchange. If it is not small with lifetime coverage, after 90 days it is a throw away, if you cannot find another way to fix it.

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[B.S.A. (ret.)]

For 90%+ of the general public, Chi-Com Craftsman or any HF tool will be more than adequate to do whatever small household task or garage maintenance application is required. Let's face facts here. Most people use a wrench/screwdriver/pliers about once or twice a month at most - any one of a number of marginal tools on the market today will accomplish that. Dedicated DIY'ers might push some of these tools to the limits, but still might get away with them for light work. When a tool is used for 8 plus hours a day by a professional mechanic, that's a whole different story, but even some pros will tell you they started with homeowner-grade tools and replaced them with tool truck brands as needs dictated or when they became unusable. I rather have a great mechanic with mediocre tools doing my work than a mediocre one with great tools.

 

[PugetDude]

Sears and Harbor Freight have been on divergent trajectories for the last 20 years; their paths intersected about 5 years ago.

 

[mudflap]

Seriously, HF going against Snap on, are you kidding? HF tools are of much lower quality than Sears. I understand all the Sears bashing here, the kick someone while they are down mentality. But come on! HF praise? Have you been to HF lately? Look at the wrench section, the wrenches are "made in India", a grade lower than anywhere that sells tools.

I think the void left by Sears will be more likely to be filled with home improvement stores like HD, Lowes, Menards etc. with HF remains the cheap tool store.

I think as Matco..MAC...so goes snap on... Already alot of ching-chong tools in their lineup....They are in competition with other ching-chong tool companies now... And with the kids coming out of Tech schools these days caring less and less about COO... Maybe its just the way things are headed...?

 

[WittHay]

I do not understand why Sears sold a 15" metal file in the first place. The only way up here to get large 14" to 16" files is to special order them from a industrial supply place.

It seems that that Sears Craftsman sold a huge variety of quality USA made tools for a slim profit margin with a no hassle warranty. That only works if you have no competition and a large number of stores. Sadly for Sears it ain't the 70's and 80's anymore

 

[M_George]

I do not understand why Sears sold a 15" metal file in the first place. The only way up here to get large 14" to 16" files is to special order them from a industrial supply place.

It seems that that Sears Craftsman sold a huge variety of quality USA made tools for a slim profit margin with a no hassle warranty. That only works if you have no competition and a large number of stores. Sadly for Sears it ain't the 70's and 80's anymore

I don't agree, Sears had the buying power to have a lot of price control, as well as the best name recondition in the country. They just got greedy.

 

[WittHay]

I don't agree, Sears had the buying power to have a lot of price control, as well as the best name recondition in the country. They just got greedy.

I am not sure how made in the USA, sold at a competitive price works.
Could Apex still make sockets/files/tools in the US, sell them to Sears for a profit and then Sears make money on them while competing with Harbour Freight. Home Depot or online retailers

 

[zendriver]

Try and get parts fo the 44" . No parts for anything under $400. I own the 44" top and bottom. I hope nothing breaks. An extended coverage plan is not worth much if they want you to drag that big brick back for an exchange. If it is not small with lifetime coverage, after 90 days it is a throw away, if you cannot find another way to fix it.

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To each his own.

Paying 10x as much for a similar SO product, just for the slim chance, of needing a spare part, does not really compute, in my world.

Granted, I'm not a pro, but I have tool chests that are 35 years old, that work like new, but then the drawers are not overloaded.

 

[zendriver]

I don't agree, Sears had the buying power to have a lot of price control, as well as the best name recondition in the country. They just got greedy.

Practically everything Sears sells is imported, same as nearly every other retailer in existence.

What's greedy about maximizing any potential for profits, for their shareholders, especially when they are struggling?

 

[M_George]

Practically everything Sears sells is imported, same as nearly every other retailer in existence.

What's greedy about maximizing any potential for profits, for their shareholders, especially when they are struggling?

All the talk about poor quality junk Sears is selling should answer that question.
That, and go figure how much supporting the unemployed and working poor is costing YOU! There's more to life than just lining your pockets.

 

[brownbagg]

but a company cant stay in business if their products are never replaced.

sear like malls, big malls. I stop going to the malls when the crimnal youth took over the mall. why go pay high price with a walmart a block up the road.

sear never had a sale, they would always lower to a price that never change and called it a sale, the socket always went to the same price when it was suppose to be on sale.

 

[M_George]

Sears Hardware closed their store here in town. Harbor Freight just opened up a new store in the same strip mall and are going gangbusters.
I Don't see it. I used to go to Sears Hardware exclusively, and so did many other people.
Crazy still, they had a Sears Appliance store, one mile away there was the Sears Hardware in the same strip mall as a K-Mart. Seams to me that if they would have combined these resources, there product lines would have brought more people into the store.

 

[M_George]

I think they lost their intuition and just ran with the numbers blindly.

 

[nbpt100]

Just read this Article about Sears. Lambert owns a real estate company called Seritage that is collecting the rent from Sears. They are in the process of closing Sears stores to then rent to high end retailers like Nordstroms and Create & Barrel that they can charge up to 3 times the rent. They are having trouble doing the build outs and getting the new tenets in on time which is putting financial pressure on Seritage.

This was the basic take away. At the current pace Lambert needs Sears to be solvent until 2020.

"If Sears doesn’t file (bankruptcy) until 2020, Seritage is fine," he told Barron's. "It is possible they are fine if there is a late-2019 filing. Any filing before that means taking extraordinary measures."

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/sears-ceos-master-plan-profit-134500303.html

 

[PelicanPines]

Was in Sears today... just walking thru the main part of the store on Mothers day... I counted more employees than customers. Got to the tool department which was well stocked but no deals on anything of value. I tried to find the Impact screwdrivers someone posted in New Tools but no luck. I asked the register guy but he had no clue what an impact screwdriver was... pointed me to the impact sockets...

 

[TorKe]

Sears customer service been going down hill for last several years. Craftsman brand been around for 90 years now, but last couple years has given the brand a bad rep. Ace does carry some of their tools and will replace with China version. I guess having a non-broke China is better then a broke USA tool. Unless things change, I will replace the broken ones with SK.

The Sears service is absolutely horrendous. While I was looking at a tool selection, not once did I see a rep walk near the tool area. They app hung out at the appliance section because I'm assuming Kenmore is their biggest seller now that Stanley bought Cman.

 

[zendriver]

All the talk about poor quality junk Sears is selling should answer that question.
That, and go figure how much supporting the unemployed and working poor is costing YOU! There's more to life than just lining your pockets.

I don't disagree, but I didn't invent our capitalist, free enterprise economy.

Why blame just Sears, when nearly every retailer, now sells imported merchandise and pays their employees as little as possible?

 

[zendriver]

Just read this Article about Sears. Lambert owns a real estate company called Seritage that is collecting the rent from Sears. They are in the process of closing Sears stores to then rent to high end retailers like Nordstroms and Create & Barrel that they can charge up to 3 times the rent. They are having trouble doing the build outs and getting the new tenets in on time which is putting financial pressure on Seritage.

This was the basic take away. At the current pace Lambert needs Sears to be solvent until 2020.

"If Sears doesn’t file (bankruptcy) until 2020, Seritage is fine," he told Barron's. "It is possible they are fine if there is a late-2019 filing. Any filing before that means taking extraordinary measures."

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/sears-ceos-master-plan-profit-134500303.html

No reason for this guy to not lie!

I'll give him a year to sell short and punch out.

 

[californiaHank]

I don't think Sears owns much real estate anymore - Lampert sold it off, and Sears rents the stores back from Seritage. I'm guessing that Seritage will survive, even after all the Sears stores are gone.

 

[trekgod3]

Here's an interesting story regarding my local Sears. Apparently they've been trying to sub lease out their second floor to ****'s sporting goods and the mall owners and town are fighting them in court to stop it:
http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/business/limbo-****-sporting-goods-secret-deal-sears-gardens-mall/m5vp1XVMNVSGbqfyv4Sp6I/

 

[jhermann]

I don't think Sears owns much real estate anymore - Lampert sold it off, and Sears rents the stores back from Seritage. I'm guessing that Seritage will survive, even after all the Sears stores are gone.

That's why Lampert bought Sears and K-Mart, for the real estate. He figured out their real estate holdings were worth more than the retail businesses.

A lot of the Sears facilities in malls were owned by Sears, not leased from the owner of the mall. With the dropping popularity of many malls, that property may not be worth as much as he thought.

 

[nbpt100]

No reason for this guy to not lie!

I'll give him a year to sell short and punch out.

You have a good point! Time will tell.

I don't think Sears owns much real estate anymore - Lampert sold it off, and Sears rents the stores back from Seritage. I'm guessing that Seritage will survive, even after all the Sears stores are gone.

It sure appears that was Lamberts plan all along. Milk Sears dry and then profit hugely off of the real estate that he transferred from Sears to Seritage.

That's why Lampert bought Sears and K-Mart, for the real estate. He figured out their real estate holdings were worth more than the retail businesses.
A lot of the Sears facilities in malls were owned by Sears, not leased from the owner of the mall. With the dropping popularity of many malls, that property may not be worth as much as he thought.

I do recall people on CNBC saying this 10 years ago. Maybe longer.
I hope his plan fails.
It is true All retailers need to change with the times. However IF run with sincere good management Sears could survive. After all there are many items that people don't want or cant buy on the Internet and some items you need fast. Like most retailers they need a good online option as well. I think their hardware store model cold survive if done right. They had a good win win thing going in special areas like:

Auto centers
Appliances including service.
Outdoor power equipment, including Service
Craftsman branded tools
Shoes & work clothes
and I am sure some other areas as well.

They don't have to be in the expensive rent districts. They could survive in strip malls as does HF, Target, Lowes and many niche retailers.

 

[MuhThugga]

The Sears service is absolutely horrendous. While I was looking at a tool selection, not once did I see a rep walk near the tool area. They app hung out at the appliance section because I'm assuming Kenmore is their biggest seller now that Stanley bought Cman.

The salespeople are on commission, so they get a higher cut peddling the appliances over screwdrivers.

However, I have never been to a Sears where an employee was readily available for assistance. I've always had to hunt for someone to unlock a cabinet or hunt for a cash register that was actually manned.

Just read this Article about Sears. Lambert owns a real estate company called Seritage that is collecting the rent from Sears.

**** like that shouldn't be allowed.

 

[woody 73]

I was just reading the latest sears news sad the Fox is watching over the hen house.

Eddie has a big stake in the real estate company buying up the sears locations I just bet that he will come out of this smelling like roses when it all said and done.

 

[woody 73]

Lets see if this link works:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...e-worst/ar-BBB7KnF?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

 

[nbpt100]

Now a Chinese power tool supplier is trying to renegotiate their contract with Sears.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/seek-embarrass-us-sears-ceo-154851431.html

 

[nbpt100]

I was just reading the latest sears news sad the Fox is watching over the hen house.

Eddie has a big stake in the real estate company buying up the sears locations I just bet that he will come out of this smelling like roses when it all said and done.

Stuff like this happens all the time when the business owner creates another company to manage the real estate the business runs out of. It is not illegal but it can create some obvious conflicts of interest and can create flows of money that would not otherwise be considered reasonable.

 

[Jeremy77]

Just wanted to get in on the daily Sears bashing. I've got a lot of Craftsman stuff, from my riding mower and generator all the way to sockets and screwdrivers. Some U.S.A, some China, some Taiwan etc. Can't say that I've ever really had a problem with any of it. Ours closed a couple of years ago so I no longer buy anything Craftsman, Kenmore, Die Hard etc. ( now that I think of it, I've bought Diehard lawn mower batteries that were **** but I've also bought other brands that **** too so maybe it's just tractor batteries in general. ) I actually liked Sears when we had one and hated to see them go. Hopefully SBD will be able to do something with the Craftsman brand like make sockets, ratchets and wrenches that don't disintegrate when air hits them or screw drivers that fall to pieces when brought within 4' of a screw. Maybe a thread (with photos) of mangled and twisted Craftsman tools that self destroyed themselves when touched is in order. Hey I wish all tools were made in U.S.A. myself but dang, Craftsman catches Hell for doing what all tool companies to one degree or another have done.

 

[M_George]

Sears is in the cross hairs for all the bashing because they were an American icon for generations.

 

[Jeremy77]

Sears is in the cross hairs for all the bashing because they were an American icon for generations.

I do understand this and it is a shame but some of the product bashing that people do is borderline nuts.

 

[M_George]

Well like me their upset about this. Many people went straight to Sears when they needed a tool. So, I think angry would be a better term than nuts. After reading the links some of the folks provided, what Lampert's doing is borderline criminal.

 

[Jeremy77]

I agree, the actual running of the company into the ground is insane and hard for me to understand. No argument there, I was simply referencing the complaints by many that the Craftsman tools and equipment are utter junk.

 

[doubleot]

Well, just yesterday I drove by our closest mall in Provo, Sears is closing and starting discounting what they have in stock. I'll wait a few weeks and see what's left over for next to nothing. I'm in no need of anything at the moment.

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[nbpt100]

I do understand this and it is a shame but some of the product bashing that people do is borderline nuts.

Jeremy77, I agree, some of the Bashing of Sears is not fair. The Bashing of Eddie Lambert is Fair. I am rooting for Sears to be saved but I am not holding my breath. I am just saying it would be nice if it could happen. There are some on here who seem to take glee in watching them die. There are some in the Fi-Serv industry who make lots of money on bankruptcies and I am sure they are salivating. Kinda like those who make money on shorting stocks. They win when the masses lose.

If Sears was taken over by a serious company who wanted to make it work it could happen. That does not mean there may be a lot of products and departments dropped but they have enough of a name, history, supplier distribution and property to make something work.
Maybe an employee ownership scheme may best work.... There is a Honda Car dealership around where I live that is owned by the employees. From all I have heard it is well run and the employees stay for a long time. I know you can't compare a car dealership to a National retailer but there must be some commonality.
Just some musings.

 

[zendriver]

Jeremy77, I agree, some of the Bashing of Sears is not fair. The Bashing of Eddie Lambert is Fair. I am rooting for Sears to be saved but I am not holding my breath. I am just saying it would be nice if it could happen. There are some on here who seem to take glee in watching them die. There are some in the Fi-Serv industry who make lots of money on bankruptcies and I am sure they are salivating. Kinda like those who make money on shorting stocks. They win when the masses lose.

If Sears was taken over by a serious company who wanted to make it work it could happen. That does not mean there may be a lot of products and departments dropped but they have enough of a name, history, supplier distribution and property to make something work.
Maybe an employee ownership scheme may best work.... There is a Honda Car dealership around where I live that is owned by the employees. From all I have heard it is well run and the employees stay for a long time. I know you can't compare a car dealership to a National retailer but there must be some commonality.
Just some musings.

Sears is dying, no matter what.

Lambert knew this when he bought in. He also knew he could milk it for plenty, before leaving taxpayers and debtors, holding the bag.

Everything is going as planned.

I''l eave a quote from the perfect "art imitates business life" movie.

Guess the movie no googling.

Bud Fox: Why do you need to wreck this company?

Gordon Gekko: Because it's WRECKABLE, all right? I took another look at it and I changed my mind!

 

[kythri]

Now a Chinese power tool supplier is trying to renegotiate their contract with Sears.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/seek-embarrass-us-sears-ceo-154851431.html

Stop buying Craftsman C3.

ETA: Or, conversely, buy as much of as you still can...

 

[Ch3No2]

I have bought Sears tools all my life....Welcoming Harbor Freight in to our Country sure didn't help!

 

[6PTsocket]

Jeremy77, I agree, some of the Bashing of Sears is not fair. The Bashing of Eddie Lambert is Fair. I am rooting for Sears to be saved but I am not holding my breath. I am just saying it would be nice if it could happen. There are some on here who seem to take glee in watching them die. There are some in the Fi-Serv industry who make lots of money on bankruptcies and I am sure they are salivating. Kinda like those who make money on shorting stocks. They win when the masses lose.

If Sears was taken over by a serious company who wanted to make it work it could happen. That does not mean there may be a lot of products and departments dropped but they have enough of a name, history, supplier distribution and property to make something work.
Maybe an employee ownership scheme may best work.... There is a Honda Car dealership around where I live that is owned by the employees. From all I have heard it is well run and the employees stay for a long time. I know you can't compare a car dealership to a National retailer but there must be some commonality.
Just some musings.

Sears has problems that extend beyond bad management. Locating their stores in malls increases their operating costs. Almost all of the mall department stores are in big trouble, like Penny and Macys. Online sales have destroyed them. They are not competitive. The big box stores and a newly invigorated Best Buy took their appliance business. Walmart sells the same quality clothing for less. Home Depot, Lowes and HF have cut into their tool and hardware sales. When you add bad management and disgruntled employees and dirty, under stocked stores, it won't be long.When suppliers hestate to supply them, the end is very near. Selling the Craftsman name was a sign of desparation. The only people I have any sympathy for is the employees. Companies come and go. A&P had a long run. Anybody that invested a lot in Sears tools, recently, based on expected warranty, should have seen it coming.

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