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Sears/K-Mart closing 100+ stores

pipsters

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Long story short, Sears is the only big box readily available place to go buy a tool in store made in the USA. When they go away, those tools go mail order only, lose a ton of volume, and prices go up considerably.

Sockets, wrenches, ratchets, pliers, screwdrivers, pry bars, hammers, cold chisels, levels, and even specialty tools like pullers, inspection mirrors, picks, piston ring compressors, etc. are all still made here in the US.

Are they going toward China? Yes, it certainly seems that way, but still a ton of US made tools there.
 
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geologist

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You better believe that if Sears went under, the Craftsman name would be snapped up by someone. It wouldn't surprise me to see Home Depot or someone similar buy it to bolster their tool offerings.

As for K-Mart, how can it compete? You've got old stores with narrow isles and grungy tile floors. Walmart figured out this was a bad idea a long time ago, when they started building stores with wider isles and dyed and polished concrete floors. Walk into K-Mart and you'll see low hung (for a store) drop ceilings, dirty as hell, and often covered in water marks. Go to Walmart and most of the new stores don't have ceilings at all, just the roof.

Don't get me wrong, I think Walmart is a cancer, but Kmart should end up being a case study in an economics class. As for Sears, I agree that they've had every opportunity to turn things around, and have bungled it each and every time. Sears are quite odd now-a-days. You walk in the store, and you have disproportionate departments. For example, in my *local* store:

Lawn and garden is roughly twice the size of my garage (or roughly the size of my 1-story ranch-style house). The tool center was kind of thrown in a corner of the store. When I went looking for a Craftsman stubby ratchet, they didn't have it but "can order it". Another gent looking for a 3/8 to 1/4 adapter was told the same thing. I was quite shocked by the fact that they were running out of Evolv tools. Seriously, if you run out of stock by 10am (Day after Christmas), and your store isn't all that busy, that's poor inventory management.

Coats were 60% off, and the wife-to-be snagged a nice faux leather for her and my daughter for about $11 each. I looked at the coats and discovered the one I was interested in was $160. Seriously? Prices are all over the place. I wouldn't pay $160 for a NorthFace jacket, much less a brand I've never heard of.
 

ishiboo

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Long story short, Sears is the only big box readily available place to go buy a tool in store made in the USA. When they go away, those tools go mail order only, lose a ton of volume, and prices go up considerably.

Sockets, wrenches, ratchets, pliers, screwdrivers, pry bars, hammers, cold chisels, levels, and even specialty tools like pullers, inspection mirrors, picks, piston ring compressors, etc. are all still made here in the US.

Are they going toward China? Yes, it certainly seems that way, but still a ton of US made tools there.

Sockets, wrenches and ratchets are Made in China already. I'm guessing many of the other things you listed are as well.
 

ishiboo

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Your post is pretty good, but.... this is a little bit over the top. Craftsman is not all made in China (yet). There are still a ton of USA made tools in Craftsman. You just have to look past their Evolv line, and any of their new styles of tools primarily.

That can't be said of many of the other big box tool lines. Kobalt is all Taiwan or China now I think. Nearly all of the Husky stuff is as well. The only real exception is Masterforce from Menards. They seem to be expanding in the USA-made tool market. Even most of the brands not affiliated with certain stores are heading to the far east. Irwin, Crescent, Stanley (not Proto) etc.

Craftsman is still generally a decent brand if you can stay with their main lines of tools (with the exception of their std ratchets and screwdrivers I think.)

I made an assumption, sorry. It seems to me that China is the path they're taking. Ratchets, sockets and extensions are now made in China... I would think that is the start of a serious trend, to me ratchets and sockets are the heart of any tool company.

Now, I'm NOT a Made in USA Zealot... I typically buy Taiwan for the best price point/quality compromise, though I would have loved to buy Craftsman for the same or a little more than Kobalt/etc., and paid American workers and what's probably mostly an American company. But the quality of the USA made stuff on the shelves is NOT up there, and knowing future stuff will be China-sourced just puts me off.
 

byoungblood

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I made an assumption, sorry. It seems to me that China is the path they're taking. Ratchets, sockets and extensions are now made in China... I would think that is the start of a serious trend, to me ratchets and sockets are the heart of any tool company.

I agree. I don't think we're seeing a few test items being Chinese made, but rather just the first wave of Chinese made Craftsman tools. I think everything made for Sears by Danaher will probably be Chinese made in the next few years.
 

powertrip

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I made an assumption, sorry. It seems to me that China is the path they're taking. Ratchets, sockets and extensions are now made in China... I would think that is the start of a serious trend, to me ratchets and sockets are the heart of any tool company.

Now, I'm NOT a Made in USA Zealot... I typically buy Taiwan for the best price point/quality compromise, though I would have loved to buy Craftsman for the same or a little more than Kobalt/etc., and paid American workers and what's probably mostly an American company. But the quality of the USA made stuff on the shelves is NOT up there, and knowing future stuff will be China-sourced just puts me off.
Still think the sockets and extensions all usa made as well as some of their ratchets (full polish pro line and premium line. Maybe more just not sure). RP wrenches are usa made and screwdrivers and black handle pliers. Most of us know this
 

Pedro86

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I vote sell k-mart. Pay your employees a livable wage... I mean- actually show your employees that they are valued and NOT slaves making just enough to keep them there, but as little as possible to keep them from succeeding in life..
 

GoBlue

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The internet has imho had as big an impact on killing brick and mortar businesses as walmart or the big box warehouses. I buy 65% of my tools online 20% on the truck and maybe 15% at a actual store. I am sure i am not alone.

I will be very sad to Sears leave...as has been mentioned, while not all of their line is American, a lot still is and once Sears is gone...you will not be able to walk into a store and buy American tools for the most part.
 

mojo3120

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I haven't been in a Kmart store in 15 years. Closest one is in a bad neighborhood with pimps, hustlers, prostitues, and thieves roaming the parking lot, looking for their next victim/customer.:shocking:

Haha, I ended up in a K-Mart the other day accidentally. Found a Sears outlet about 30 min away, put it in my gps and it took me to a kmart :rolleyes:. Outlet was in the back corner of the K-Mart. Couldn't believe how much of a dump the place was. Like half the shelves weren't even stocked on the K-Mart side.

Sears outlet wasn't that impressive either. Picked up a set a gear wrench deep sockets, but probably spent the difference in fuel. Only Craftsman products there were a couple tool boxes.
 

otis66

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I haven't been in a Kmart store in 15 years. Closest one is in a bad neighborhood with pimps, hustlers, prostitues, and thieves roaming the parking lot, looking for their next victim/customer.:shocking:

Management is bad but I wouldn't call them pimps, hustlers, prostitues or thieves.:lol_hitti
 

mojo3120

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I made an assumption, sorry. It seems to me that China is the path they're taking. Ratchets, sockets and extensions are now made in China... I would think that is the start of a serious trend, to me ratchets and sockets are the heart of any tool company.

Now, I'm NOT a Made in USA Zealot... I typically buy Taiwan for the best price point/quality compromise, though I would have loved to buy Craftsman for the same or a little more than Kobalt/etc., and paid American workers and what's probably mostly an American company. But the quality of the USA made stuff on the shelves is NOT up there, and knowing future stuff will be China-sourced just puts me off.

The thing that gets me is they're selling the new Chinese stuff for the American made pricing, discreetly removing the USA stamps. Like the polished wrenches, just replaced them with Chinese **** and act as if nothing changed. If I want Chinese tools, I go to Harbor Freight and get Chinese pricing.
 

theWORLDSaNAIL

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Some times to go forward we must look back killing the kmart ghost, return a catalog that showcases and helps a well designed website created to help you shop for the **** you need not the **** they're throwing your way, start completing as a one stop shop store and loose the damn mall no-one wants to fight that ****. Partner with food chains and layout your store's in a logical manner train the f-in help so I don't have to just this will go miles in the right direction. The next steps to kick Wal-Mart and others **** is to move out of the city of Chicago to a place with real consumers and workers (this is not NEW YORK or LA ) and start being a retail store not a real estate company
 

kcoyle

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I happen to like sears. (don't know much about kmart) Many of the stores by me are not in a mall which I like because of less traffic and shoppers and more parking. I like that I can go in with a busted up 10 year old ratchet and get handed a new one. I like that if I need say, one 27mm socket, I can get it there. I like that I can go upstairs and get a new pair of dickies if need be. I like that the 2 sears I go to have good staff. I like that I don't have to walk a quarter mile through a huge warehouse sized HD/lowes to find something and then have to check myself out because there are only 2 people working the registers on a Saturday afternoon.

I will miss them if they go under, 99% of my hand tools are craftsman. I have a hard time buying hand tools from anywhere else. So much for lifetime warranty.

Kevin
 

powertrip

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The thing that gets me is they're selling the new Chinese stuff for the American made pricing, discreetly removing the USA stamps. Like the polished wrenches, just replaced them with Chinese **** and act as if nothing changed. If I want Chinese tools, I go to Harbor Freight and get Chinese pricing.
I agree about the pricing issue but I would rather have a craftsman china wrench than a HF pittsburgh wrench.
 

Bolster

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Sears, and Sears alone, is responsible for what I consider the biggest business blunder of the modern era. About two to three years before the Internet became prominent, Sears leadership decided to discontinue their catalog infrastructure. If done right, in 1995 or 1996, years before Amazon became a big retailer, they would have had the largest Internet retail presence, and it could have been created with simple programming adapters.

I'll remind you that Sears was the first big store on the internet. They were early adopters. I remember buying my first tool, a simple Cman screwdriver, online from Sears back when all you had was a text description, no photo. Must have been sometime around 1994 or 1995.

That was back when anything purchased on the internet was at a much higher price than in a brick and mortar store, "because of the convenience." Only later did the marketplace figure out that internet stores had to offer substantial bargains. I don't think Sears ever got that memo.

So Sears DID embrace the internet, and they got there long before Amazon did. Somehow they squandered their early lead. Now they're trying to compete with Amazon's Marketplace with their "we'll sell it to you via a third party" business model (...which I despise, even on Amazon. If you don't stock it, don't try to sell it to me.)

Wonderful as it is, Amazon will be on hard times soon, too, once desperate politicians figure out how to tax interstate commerce. Then Amazon's competitive edge will be gone. But by then it will be too late for Sears.
 
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Bolster

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You better believe that if Sears went under, the Craftsman name would be snapped up by someone. It wouldn't surprise me to see Home Depot or someone similar buy it to bolster their tool offerings.

Here in Mexifornia we have Cman available both at OSH and ACE Hardware already.
 
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kythri

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Now they're trying to compete with Amazon's Marketplace with their "we'll sell it to you via a third party" business model (...which I despise, even on Amazon. If you don't stock it, don't try to sell it to me.)

Funny, I absolutely LOVE Amazon Marketplace, especially for books and music - so much stuff that Amazon simply can't stock (older, out of print, etc.) that others can and do.

I don't know why Sears can't "fix" their implementation of the similar service, but it'd be kinda nice if they could. More options are always better.

Wonderful as it is, Amazon will be on hard times soon, too, once desperate politicians figure out how to tax interstate commerce. Then Amazon's competitive edge will be gone. But by then it will be too late for Sears.

I'm not seeing it. Amazon's a savvy business - I can totally see them creating/building sales/distribution centers in each state as a way to avoid that - transfer their merchandise to themselves in another state (not a sale, but a shipment) and then ship from that location). Even if the states or the fed figure out a way to tax them more, they're still going to be cheaper than most local places, with better selections, and, let's face it, far better customer service.
 

Hootbro

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I like tools and have so for many years, I live close to a sears in a major mall and also a catalog store close bye and have not been in it 6 times in all of 2011, OK maybe 7. They have the same type of employees in sears as Kmart, most could care less. I consider myself to be an average shopper too. I've said several times in the last 5 years: "in my life time I will see the end of Sears and Roebuck"...uh I mean Kmart too.

A blue light special on the entire lock, stock, and barrel. Sad.

As to the statement that Sears has the same type of employees as K-Mart, that is by design.

When K-Mart bought out Sears, they basically started every legacy Sears employee as a new hire. That meant lower wages and commission sales force. This sent the vast majority of the legacy Sears employees out the door. No longer did you have an employee working a section with 10, 20 or even 30+ years of experience with product knowledge and understanding of what the customer wants and needs.
 

mojo3120

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I'm not seeing it. Amazon's a savvy business - I can totally see them creating/building sales/distribution centers in each state as a way to avoid that - transfer their merchandise to themselves in another state (not a sale, but a shipment) and then ship from that location). Even if the states or the fed figure out a way to tax them more, they're still going to be cheaper than most local places, with better selections, and, let's face it, far better customer service.

It's actually kind of the opposite

A 1992 decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in Quill v. North Dakota held that online sales are not subject to taxation unless the seller has a physical presence in the jurisdiction imposing the tax. That has allowed Amazon and other retailers to undercut competition from bricks-and-mortar retailers by selling tax-free in states where it has no physical presence.

The recent controversy is states (like NY & CA) are claiming Amazon to have a physical presence in the state due to their affiliate programs. Each state that passes this tax, Amazon has to shuts down it's affiliate programs in that state. It put an estimated 25,000 small businesses in California out of business, & probably didn't even increase tax revenues.
 

pipsters

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Sockets, wrenches and ratchets are Made in China already. I'm guessing many of the other things you listed are as well.

You can still buy new sockets, wrenches, and ratchets that are made in the USA from Sears. Your comment is wrong.
 

Coach James

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I vote sell k-mart. Pay your employees a livable wage... I mean- actually show your employees that they are valued and NOT slaves making just enough to keep them there, but as little as possible to keep them from succeeding in life..

If my post is too political, mods please delete it. I own a business and it is not my responsibility to pay my employees a "liveable wage". I don't even know how you would determine a "liveable wage" or what the definition of one is. I pay what I can afford to pay and what my employees are willing to accept. If they don't think it is enough, they are free to go someplace else.

If the employees stay at K-Mart, they must be satisfied or K-Mart must be the best job they can get. Either way, K-Mart is hardly keeping someone from succeeding in life.

As to Sears, I have no idea what will happen with them. Their tools and appliances have been their money makers, while their apparel line has been a money loser for a long time.

K-Mart went under because management was incompetent and apathetic. At the time fo their bankruptcy, there were over 15,000 semi trailers full of merchandise sitting behind stores waiting to be emptied. The companies inventory control system was so bad, store managers had no idea what was in the trailers so they never unloaded them and would just order more mechandise when they needed it. The thousands of trailers continued to sit behind the stores in trailers the company was paying leasing fees on.

An excellent read on the fall of KMart and rise of WalMart is:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0048EL878/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The difference in management between Walmart and Target compared to Kmart was huge.

Almost daily on here, there are posts about how anyone in management is the dumbest/laziest/unworthy etc, person in a company, but in the case of KMart, it seems to be true.

Coach
 

pipsters

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You get what you pay for. Pay $7.25/hr and you get people that barely even show up for work. I see it every day at my job. They would rather not hire another employee at $8/hr and have me sit burning $8/min in fuel alone waiting to be parked for 5 or 10 mins.

Then the opposite is true, you'll see the guy working his **** off for $8/hr doing the job of two or three people. But management won't pay him more. He leaves and they have to hire 2 to do what he was doing.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.
 

G1GRANDEUR

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Then the opposite is true, you'll see the guy working his **** off for $8/hr doing the job of two or three people. But management won't pay him more. He leaves and they have to hire 2 to do what he was doing.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.

100% agree. I have seen it and done it.
 

geologist

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So you've taken the time to compile 4 pages of how bad your local Kmart is?.....:headscrat:wtf:

Yeah, because I got pissed off that I couldn't get my daughter through the store in her wheelchair, not to mention shelves were literally collapsing and debris was everywhere. I sent an email with a link to it, and they've brought a new manager to the store to try to help the other two morons out.
 

moonlight_ken

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Im not sure if anyone here has ever been a customer of Lands End. They were bought out about 10 years ago by Sears and they were never the same. They are still a great company to deal with and their clothing can't be beat...but they are just not the same as they used to be. My guess is that in addition to closing stores they will sell off Land's End for the cash....
 

soob

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I like Lands' End, but the quality of their clothes gets worse and worse. They ran an ad a while back saying that their shirts cost the same today as they did 20 years ago. Yeah. But today they're made in China out of crummy fabric with glue-fused collars and cuffs and even plackets. Ugh. Or maybe that was LL Bean. Same story. It pissed me off so much I decided to make my own shirts. It's not hard and industrial sewing machines are neat as hell.

Anyway I can't see how Sears isn't succeeding. Crummy customer service, run down stores, declining product quality, really high markups, awful website. They should be rolling in the dough!
 

reddog289

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Funny thing I did most of my Christmas shopping at Kmart and Sears. Kmart is a strange store to go into. I go to Kmart twice a month to pay my two Sears cards. If not for that I would most likely go there. I agree with those who say that Kmart is outdated and over crowded. The aisles are narrow with all the clothes that are always on clearence. Sears on the other hand has been a shell of its former self since the whole takeover merger deal. When I started messing with bicycles, Later cars I got my tools from Sears like my Grandpa did. 30 yrs later I still buy Craftsman, I check where they are from now though. One thing also I noticed when Sears had their 50% off tools storage sale I think they jacked up the prices then cut them. I don't think I got a deal on my roll away. But I bought it anyway before I noticed. But the real reason I did most of my shopping at both places as that they were open late and no crowds. Which explains the news that was announced.
 

darcyh

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In Canada one of the biggest retailers was Eatons. They went out of business in the mid-ninety's. In 1958 Eatons 'owned' 58% of the retail market and had been in business since the 1800's.

They died a slow death with one bad decision after another. They ditched appliances, increased their selection of high end cosmetics and fashion, killed their catalogue division, experienced sloppy inventory etc. They rewarded mediocre managers and had some rather nasty sales associates. They literally died by 1000 cuts.

Ironically, one of the competitors that helped put them out of business was Sears.
 

dwm

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Let's suppose that SHC closes every store in 2012 and liquidates. To me, the interesting question is, "Will a gap open that presents a profit opportunity for a new business? Or revival/survival of the Craftsman brand?" I think the answer is "No" for the former, and "Probably not" for the latter.

To me, the one thing Sears had going for it all of these years is almost one-stop shopping for decent quality tools. In the areas I've lived in, no one has come close to Sears' breadth of tool offerings. Harbor Freight, for example, has very little compared to Sears and the quality tends to be all over the map (though the price is almost always right). Lowe's and Home Depot have a decent selection of carpentry tools but a dearth of mechanic's tools.

There are many examples of brick-and-mortar stores disappearing in the last 10 years. Some of them simply didn't stand a chance against online offerings. Border's, for example. They might've survived if they had created a solid Web presence in the mid-1990's, but alas they dragged their feet, forever, and watched Amazon and even B&N eat them alive. Newegg survived because they wisely dropped their brick-and-mortar stores and went online early. CompUSA waited way too long.

My local chain hardware stores are awful. They're filled with things that have nothing to do with hardware. There are certainly good ACE hardware stores out there (I had one in the town I lived in a few years ago), but where I am now, the odds of me finding a tool or fastener I need in one of the three local ACE stores are extremely low. I can buy jars of hot fudge there, and greeting cards, candles, and a lot of other stuff that shouldn't be occupying space in a hardware store. But if I need a 25mm long M8x1.25 Class 12.9 cap screw? No dice. Even the formerly pretty good hardware stores are doing some of the same. My local McNabb's, which I used to like, is doing some of the same. 20% of their floor space is now Carharrt. I like Carharrt stuff, but I don't need to see 20% of the little hardware store devoted to it. Grainger? No thanks, McMaster-Carr's service and pricing is WAY better. Fastenal? Not for me. My local ACO is more like K-Mart or a Dollar Tree than a hardware store.

I would expect some smaller stores to benefit greatly from the demise of K-Mart and Sears. The CompUSA demise, for example, combined with the cluelessness of staff and uncompetitive pricing of BestBuy for anything computer-related, GREATLY increased traffic at the one remaining big computer store in the Detroit area (MicroCenter). In fact you're lucky if you don't have to drive around the MicroCenter lot for 15 minutes to find someone leaving just so you can park.

I continue to see new AutoZone and Advance Auto Parts stores open. They will benefit if they devote more space to decent quality tools (bring SK and Grey Pneumatic into the stores instead of just offering it online, and/or expand what's available from Duralast and increase the quality a bit).

I also expect the remaining big-box stores to benefit.

Who do I expect to benefit most? Amazon and other online retailers (including Snap-On at the high end), UPS and FedEx. I don't see a profitable gap to fill via new brick-and-mortar stores.
 

Guzzi

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You get what you pay for. Pay $7.25/hr and you get people that barely even show up for work. I see it every day at my job. They would rather not hire another employee at $8/hr and have me sit burning $8/min in fuel alone waiting to be parked for 5 or 10 mins.

Then the opposite is true, you'll see the guy working his **** off for $8/hr doing the job of two or three people. But management won't pay him more. He leaves and they have to hire 2 to do what he was doing.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

You must be flying into PHL.
 

Davefr

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Newegg survived because they wisely dropped their brick-and-mortar stores and went online early.

When did Newegg have B&M stores?? Are you confusing them with Egghead Computer??
 

kythri

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It's actually kind of the opposite

The recent controversy is states (like NY & CA) are claiming Amazon to have a physical presence in the state due to their affiliate programs. Each state that passes this tax, Amazon has to shuts down it's affiliate programs in that state. It put an estimated 25,000 small businesses in California out of business, & probably didn't even increase tax revenues.

I understand that, but that's at the state level - Amazon is already paying where it's lost its challenges.

I (and I thought Bolster) was talking federal - taxing inter-state commerce.
 
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