Sears/K-Mart closing 100+ stores

[byoungblood]

Newegg survived because they wisely dropped their brick-and-mortar stores and went online early.

I didn't know that NewEgg ever had any brick and mortar locations to begin with. I know back when I first started ordering from them about 10 years ago (back when they sold nothing but computer parts), they had an option where you could pickup from their CA office/warehouse if you lived in the area, but that was it.

Speaking of MicroCenter, you're spot on about them. Both of the Atlanta locations are ALWAYS busy, even though their everyday prices aren't much to get excited about except when they have a sale. I really, really wish they'd open a store in the Memphis area, there is nothing out here, though NewEgg does have a DC only a few miles away, so I still get my orders in record time.

 

[ncfh]

... I own a business and it is not my responsibility to pay my employees a "liveable wage". I don't even know how you would determine a "liveable wage" or what the definition of one is. I pay what I can afford to pay and what my employees are willing to accept. If they don't think it is enough, they are free to go someplace else. ...
Coach

I disagree. Difficult as it may be to numerically define what a "living wage" is on paper, it is quite obvious to see with your own eyes.

But no one chooses to make such queries, for it is not commanded by law to take honest interest in the tribulations of those charges whose daily labors enrich their masters many times more than that of themselves.

No, it is far easier to lament that the law demands no such "charity" and that all obligations to the unfortunate heathens are appropriately filed, T's crossed, I's dotted.

 

[powertrip]

If my post is too political, mods please delete it. I own a business and it is not my responsibility to pay my employees a "liveable wage". I don't even know how you would determine a "liveable wage" or what the definition of one is. I pay what I can afford to pay and what my employees are willing to accept. If they don't think it is enough, they are free to go someplace else.

If the employees stay at K-Mart, they must be satisfied or K-Mart must be the best job they can get. Either way, K-Mart is hardly keeping someone from succeeding in life.

As to Sears, I have no idea what will happen with them. Their tools and appliances have been their money makers, while their apparel line has been a money loser for a long time.

K-Mart went under because management was incompetent and apathetic. At the time fo their bankruptcy, there were over 15,000 semi trailers full of merchandise sitting behind stores waiting to be emptied. The companies inventory control system was so bad, store managers had no idea what was in the trailers so they never unloaded them and would just order more mechandise when they needed it. The thousands of trailers continued to sit behind the stores in trailers the company was paying leasing fees on.

An excellent read on the fall of KMart and rise of WalMart is:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0048EL878/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The difference in management between Walmart and Target compared to Kmart was huge.

Almost daily on here, there are posts about how anyone in management is the dumbest/laziest/unworthy etc, person in a company, but in the case of KMart, it seems to be true.

Coach

agree....

 

[kythri]

I disagree. Difficult as it may be to numerically define what a "living wage" is on paper, it is quite obvious to see with your own eyes.

But no one chooses to make such queries, for it is not commanded by law to take honest interest in the tribulations of those charges whose daily labors enrich their masters many times more than that of themselves.

No, it is far easier to lament that the law demands no such "charity" and that all obligations to the unfortunate heathens are appropriately filed, T's crossed, I's dotted.

If you don't like it, stop supporting businesses that don't voluntarily pay a "living wage" to the burger flippers. I challenge you to find a business that voluntarily pays a "living wage" to all of it's employees for part-time work performing menial tasks and unskilled labor. They don't exist.

I just watched the news last night where some hippy-dippy Eugene crystal pendant store owner was embracing the minimum wage increase in Oregon as being a great thing for his employees, and I can't help but wonder if it was such a great thing, why he wasn't paying his employees more in the first place.

Another small business owner stated that he was going to be forced to reduce his available business hours or layoff an employee because business was already bad, and this was just going to make things worse.

Mandated minimum wages help nobody, and it's crazy that a lot of people can't see that. All that minimum wages and increases in the minimum wage do is to raise the price on goods and services across the board, meaning no real increase in any purchasing power for those receiving the minimum, and LESS purchasing power for those that make more, because their salary isn't adjusted up to compensate.

Things get more expensive, people buy less, and more people get laid off.

But hey - be proud of destroying the economy! Let's go get a tent, camp out and ruin a public park and cost the taxpayers even more money to restore it!

 

[Davefr]

If you don't like it, stop supporting businesses that don't voluntarily pay a "living wage" to the burger flippers. I challenge you to find a business that voluntarily pays a "living wage" to all of it's employees for part-time work performing menial tasks and unskilled labor. They don't exist.

I just watched the news last night where some hippy-dippy Eugene crystal pendant store owner was embracing the minimum wage increase in Oregon as being a great thing for his employees, and I can't help but wonder if it was such a great thing, why he wasn't paying his employees more in the first place.

Another small business owner stated that he was going to be forced to reduce his available business hours or layoff an employee because business was already bad, and this was just going to make things worse.

Mandated minimum wages help nobody, and it's crazy that a lot of people can't see that. All that minimum wages and increases in the minimum wage do is to raise the price on goods and services across the board, meaning no real increase in any purchasing power for those receiving the minimum, and LESS purchasing power for those that make more, because their salary isn't adjusted up to compensate.

Things get more expensive, people buy less, and more people get laid off.

But hey - be proud of destroying the economy! Let's go get a tent, camp out and ruin a public park and cost the taxpayers even more money to restore it!

^^^+1

A high minimum wage also impedes the ability of unskilled workers and those just entering the workplace to have the chance to acquire/learn marketable skills.

 

[RonBB]

I could handle Craftsman only stores

 

[ncfh]

Thank you for putting words in my mouth, but you're flogging your horse in the wrong direction. Did I say I support any of those options? Not once. If you are too involved to see another route, too absorbed by a broken system to really change, then we deserve what we have coming.

And there are a very many businesses, large and small, that somehow manage to pay their employees a "livable wage" without so much as a single commandment from above. Crystal loving hippies for sure? lol.

I've run a business, and I've know many businessmen. Many inferior and weak, propped up only by their own greed and desire.

If we want to talk problems and solutions, great. Otherwise I've got better things to do.

 

[byoungblood]

I disagree. Difficult as it may be to numerically define what a "living wage" is on paper, it is quite obvious to see with your own eyes.

But no one chooses to make such queries, for it is not commanded by law to take honest interest in the tribulations of those charges whose daily labors enrich their masters many times more than that of themselves.

No, it is far easier to lament that the law demands no such "charity" and that all obligations to the unfortunate heathens are appropriately filed, T's crossed, I's dotted.

Nobody is forcing them to work there. If they can't support themselves on that wage, then they can get another job that pays better.

That system has worked in this country since its inception, and it is only until fairly recently that individuals (primarily those not even working these jobs to begin with!) have insisted that people are entitled to a "living wage" regardless of their vocation. Most of the people that claim to be a victim of our "system" have a motivation problem, nothing else.

 

[quick86]

I vote sell k-mart. Pay your employees a livable wage... I mean- actually show your employees that they are valued and NOT slaves making just enough to keep them there, but as little as possible to keep them from succeeding in life..

I worked at sears for 2-3 months. Why? Because I didn't want to join unemployment because my prior employer had gone under due to the failure of their brick and mortar stores, AKA: CompUSA.

I worked in the auto department and was compensated $5.75/hr + commission. They got to pay less than minimum wage because the jobs were listed as being commission. How did you earn a commission? You earned a commission on all the repair orders you wrote - NOT what you sold. Our store would get customers in the morning dropping off for diagnosis before they went to work and picking up after work. We ran two shifts - morning and afternoon shifts. The morning crew wrote EVERYONE up for repairs and were gone by 1-2pm. The afternoon crew, we would come in and sell the repairs to the customers because they were all diagnosed by then. We didn't get ANY percentage of that because we didn't write them up initially, we made the morning guys money while they were at home. And we'd also be scheduling customers for the upcoming days to drop off for repairs/diagnosis....and everyone always likes to schedule at what time of day? Morning!

 

[SO/PW newbie]

Oh, and sorry for the double-post, but if you want to see how much of a joke my local K-Mart is, check out my photo album:

http://www.photobucket.com/kmartsmart

Thats brutal...

I remember the Kmart down the street was just like that. It closed several years ago.

 

[Big Gus]

Nobody is forcing them to work there. If they can't support themselves on that wage, then they can get another job that pays better.

That system has worked in this country since its inception, and it is only until fairly recently that individuals (primarily those not even working these jobs to begin with!) have insisted that people are entitled to a "living wage" regardless of their vocation. Most of the people that claim to be a victim of our "system" have a motivation problem, nothing else.

I agree with this statement 100%

 

[kythri]

Thank you for putting words in my mouth, but you're flogging your horse in the wrong direction. Did I say I support any of those options? Not once. If you are too involved to see another route, too absorbed by a broken system to really change, then we deserve what we have coming.

Oh, I'm ready for a change, but it seems we disagree where the change needs to come from. For me, the change is that big government needs to step the heck OUT of it's involvement with many businesses, and stop mandating useless ineffective so-called "solutions" like the minimum wage and it's ever-increasing nature.

And there are a very many businesses, large and small, that somehow manage to pay their employees a "livable wage" without so much as a single commandment from above. Crystal loving hippies for sure? lol.

A> Yeah, there are companies that do pay their employees a living wage. There's also companies that employ people to do menial tasks such as flipping burgers or pumping gas, tasks that I (and a lot of other customers of said businesses) feel do not deserve compensation such as is currently mandated, especially when that compensation is statutorily increased without regard for it's negative effects on the economy.

B> The business owner portrayed literally ran a hippy crystal shop in Eugene, OR, and was every bit the stereotypical "Far out, man!" hippy - hence my description of him as such. It wasn't an exaggeration or embellishment. He also praised the mandated minimum wage increase as being beneficial for his employees that make minimum wage, since now they'll make more. Major hypocrite, and the typical supporter of feel-good legislation such as this.

I've run a business, and I've know many businessmen. Many inferior and weak, propped up only by their own greed and desire.

That's what's great about a free market - you're not required to patronize those you are morally opposed to. On the other hand, they're allowed to be as greedy and desirous as they choose, and they reap the consequences for their behavior.

If we want to talk problems and solutions, great. Otherwise I've got better things to do.

That sounds like a free market solution to a problem to me. If you're willing to employ such here, why aren't you willing to employ such in the marketplace?

 

[pipsters]

Ironically the best performing economies are those that have high wages even for lower skilled workers and a large social safety net. The US is a hollow economy and the folks in charge have sold out the country (and its workers).

 

[kythri]

I agree with this statement 100%

Yeah, I'm trying to understand how I was able to exist, survive and thrive while working those horrible low paying jobs years ago.

I think it has something to do with personal responsibility, living within my means, understanding that minimum wage is compensation for unskilled labor, that such jobs aren't intended to provide me with the means to acquire all I desire in life.

I had roommates. I walked, biked, or drove a cheap car. I didn't buy luxury items. I was responsible and didn't have a child (or impregnate someone with one) because it was a burden I (and we) couldn't afford. I didn't get myself buried in credit debt.

I'm not some super-human performing feats that no mere mortal man can hope to match. I'm not a special sunflower, I'm a normal person.

Or, I was once a normal person. The rapid growth of entitlement programs and the "it's not your fault!" propaganda have redefined what "normal" now is.

Now normal is the expectation that a sole provider working at McDonald's as the part time fry cook/parking lot sweeper should be able to support a spouse, 2.5 children, a 1500-sq-ft house, two new cars, pets, cable television for the big screen, video games, smartphones and dataplans and every other luxury the special sunflowers want.

Gotta love it.

 

[pipsters]

Yeah, I'm trying to understand how I was able to exist, survive and thrive while working those horrible low paying jobs years ago.

I think it has something to do with personal responsibility, living within my means, understanding that minimum wage is compensation for unskilled labor, that such jobs aren't intended to provide me with the means to acquire all I desire in life.

It's very arrogant to look to the past and talk about how it was easy to move on. These days so much more stands in the way. Look at the cost of fuel, medical care, housing, even cars. The costs have quickly outpaced inflation and the min wage growth.

Hell, 10 years ago I made $10/hr at a grocery store. Adjusted for inflation over $13/hr today. That same job today pays under $10/hr now. Wages have taken a huge slide as more and more compete for fewer retail oriented jobs.

 

[pipsters]

To to add, min wage only covers something like 5% of working adults. Most min wage workers are high school kids. Min wage laws don't really have as much effect as people would make you think, because so few people are actually making min wage.

 

[kythri]

It's very arrogant to look to the past and talk about how it was easy to move on. These days so much more stands in the way. Look at the cost of fuel, medical care, housing, even cars. The costs have quickly outpaced inflation and the min wage growth.

Actually, they really haven't, and it's that very attitude ("so much more stands in the way") that is contributing to the real problem.

Minimum wage in Oregon has about doubled in the same time that fuel prices have doubled.

Housing prices (we're talking rentals, not purchasing, because we're talking minimum wage, after all) haven't doubled. The apartment I rented for $425/month in 1999 rents for $550/month today. The apartment that I rented for $685/month in 2005 rents for $765/month today.

That last apartment? That's $80/month more, or $960/year more. The minimum wage increase from 2005 until 2011 accounted for $1300/year more income of someone working only 20/hrs a week at minimum wage - and that minimum wage goes up again on 01/01/2012.

Used car prices aren't double what they used to be - I can still buy a used beater for roughly what I bought one for well over a decade ago.

Healthcare really doesn't seem that much more expensive, and I've got crappy benefits. The only real increases I've noticed have been that co-pays have increased. Then again, I'm not procreating in an uncontrollable manner, and therefore, I don't have to pay for benefits for dependents.

Luxuries have gotten more expensive, to be sure, but those are luxuries.

Hell, 10 years ago I made $10/hr at a grocery store. Adjusted for inflation over $13/hr today. That same job today pays under $10/hr now. Wages have taken a huge slide as more and more compete for fewer retail oriented jobs.

Sounds like the grocery store has adjusted the pay accordingly for the services rendered.

I believe that overall wages have taken a huge slide as more and more minimum wage increases happen, and fewer retail oriented jobs exist because retailers have to do more with less due to those ever-increasing minimum wage laws.

 

[El Barto]

What I think a lot of stores are trying to do is make themselves a “destination” and create a shopping “experience”. That is, they want to be a place that draws in people and THEN tries to sell them things, i.e. they are trying to attract legions of zombie shoppers, those with no real shopping needs, but buying on impulse. It’s like they think that people driving by will stop when they see racks of discounted clothes outside, and then when they get inside they will buy a toolbox and a new mattress.

It's not a matter of picking a store and then choosing what you want to buy. Most of us need something and then decide where to buy it based on things like price, availability, store setup, employees, checkout lines, and whatever else drives our personal buying choices.

Sears is a place where you would go for a specific item; like if you need a washing machine. You should be confident that Sears would have something that fits your price and has the best quality. If you have any questions, the salespeople should be able to answer them, not just read what is on the product card. Convince me that I should buy a washing machine from you and not Home Depot. Why is yours better?

Kmart is just too far gone.

 

[byoungblood]

To to add, min wage only covers something like 5% of working adults. Most min wage workers are high school kids. Min wage laws don't really have as much effect as people would make you think, because so few people are actually making min wage.

Which is the way it has always been, unions are the ones who keep pushing for minimum wage increases because in many trades their base salary is a set amount above the minimum wage. Ergo, if the government raises the minimum wage, they get a pay raise that they didn't have to negotiate for.

Those who push for increasing minimum wage as a way of helping the working poor disregard that very little of the adult population is working at minimum wage. Hell, even as a teenager I only earned minimum wage for maybe a few months at my first non-seasonal job.

But just to get this discussion back on topic, Sears is not going to turn themselves around overnight by paying their employees a "living wage". Disinterested staff is certainly one of their problems, but I'd say putting them back on commission, therefore giving people an incentive to be more helpful, would probably go much further in correcting that problem. Problem is in a retail setting like Sears that someone who is making a flat hourly wage has absolutely no incentive to do more than what it takes to keep their job. You almost MUST tie someone's pay to their performance in a retail setting to get them to do more than the bare minimum.

 

[pipsters]

I believe that overall wages have taken a huge slide as more and more minimum wage increases happen, and fewer retail oriented jobs exist because retailers have to do more with less due to those ever-increasing minimum wage laws.

Min wage increases have not actually increased dollars earned. Here is a chart showing constant 2009 dollars pegged against the min wage increases over time:

It's obvious from that chart that in fact min wages have decreased roughly 30% over the past 40 years. Have costs come down 30% over the past 40 years? I would hope you would say no.

I can't speak to regional differences. Obviously, wages in parts of the country will be higher such as in California or certain areas on the east coast.

Also, you must've missed what I said before. Fewer than 5% of working adults earn min wage. Min wage increases have very little to do with overall costs. In fact, in the US, throwing out the jobs that also pay tips, only 1% of the entire US workforce earns minimum wage. It's clear by that figure that min wage is certainly not anywhere near a market rate for employers to pay.

 

[pipsters]

Which is the way it has always been, unions are the ones who keep pushing for minimum wage increases because in many trades their base salary is a set amount above the minimum wage. Ergo, if the government raises the minimum wage, they get a pay raise that they didn't have to negotiate for.

I'm in a trade union, nothing in my contract about rates over min wage. Can you supply a link to support that as a nationwide policy?

 

[dwm]

It's a common misconception. The two have no affiliation.

You guys are correct, my mistake. Though instead of associating them, I was misremembering Egghead's name. Must be old age.

 

[powertrip]

Nobody is forcing them to work there. If they can't support themselves on that wage, then they can get another job that pays better.

That system has worked in this country since its inception, and it is only until fairly recently that individuals (primarily those not even working these jobs to begin with!) have insisted that people are entitled to a "living wage" regardless of their vocation. Most of the people that claim to be a victim of our "system" have a motivation problem, nothing else.

Amen brother. That is the beauty of capitalism. If you don't like what your getting paid, stop complaining and blaming your employer. Get tangible skills that are in demand and make more money. If you don't like what a business pays their employees, then do business elsewhere. It's as simple as that. The free market decides. This livable wage **** is a joke and another attempt to try to make society more fair. All it does is bring the top down to the bottoms level instead of lifting all workers up. For you to make a "livable" wage it is not necessary to take from a person already making a "livable" wage. Equal opportunity to all but unequal results determined upon education, skill, common sense, perseverance and motivation.

 

[NUTTSGT]

My step-dads uncle worked for Kmart years ago, back when it was called Kresge. He was doing some time study work and other things. He talked about how back in even the early ''80s the management was lacking in some serious skills.

A study was done about arranging all the stores so the floor plan was the same, common practice today. Doesn't matter what store in chain you go too, they are all laid out the same. It was shown that it would work and provide a better experience for the shopper. Store managers wouldn't follow corporate directives and would set up the stores as they wanted or how they felt they should be set up.

It's been piss poor leadership by Kmart for years and won't change anytime till they are gone. When Kmart goes under this time, someone that is a go-getter, wants to bring back a brand (Sears/Craftsman) and willing to listen to what people want that will make Sears a very competent brand again.

 

[diesel research]

A study was done about arranging all the stores so the floor plan was the same, common practice today. Doesn't matter what store in chain you go too, they are all laid out the same. It was shown that it would work and provide a better experience for the shopper. Store managers wouldn't follow corporate directives and would set up the stores as they wanted or how they felt they should be set up.

Walmart is not set up identical. I can visit 4 different walmart stores on the same street within 15 minutes of each other, and they have stark differences. I mean dramatically, as in opposite ends of the store. I just recently stopped in at one on the otherside of town. The freezer case was next aisle over from school supplies....

 

[NUTTSGT]

Walmart is not set up identical. I can visit 4 different walmart stores on the same street within 15 minutes of each other, and they have stark differences. I mean dramatically, as in opposite ends of the store. I just recently stopped in at one on the otherside of town. The freezer case was next aisle over from school supplies....

This was over 20 years ago, things may change but most stores try to have the same set up, maybe reversed or mirror imaged.

But if you're brave enough to visit 4 different walmarts within 15 minutes of each other. . .. . damn, you got some serious brass balls

 

[byoungblood]

I'm in a trade union, nothing in my contract about rates over min wage. Can you supply a link to support that as a nationwide policy?

I don't think it is nationwide, but the most neutral articles I can find do suggest that there are some union contracts that are negotiated to adjust along with the minimum wage, or are some multiplier of the minimum wage. I'd suppose that most of these are probably less skilled jobs, as I'd imagine such minor increases wouldn't be much to get excited about for anyone in a skilled trade.

I do recall this being part of the debate surrounding the last minimum wage increase a few years ago, but the exact details are a bit fuzzy right now.

 

[thesilverone]

Here is a listing of 80 of the 100/120 stores that will close:

http://searsholdings.com/about/122711_close.pdf

 

[Jim85IROC]

Here is a listing of 80 or the 100/120 stores that will close:

http://searsholdings.com/about/122711_close.pdf

I'm glad to see that so far nothing near me is impacted.

 

[kythri]

Looks like for Oregon, it's only the Roseburg Sears that'll be closing - at least, so far.

The Kmart about a half mile away will stay open.

Hopefully, they'll be somewhat smart about this - if they're going to close one store with it's partner right nearby, that makes sense, but at least consolidate the stores - expand the tool and appliance section at the Kmart that remains open, etc.

Unfortunately, I doubt they'll do anything like that...I feel sorry for the folks in Roseburg that are losing their Sears. Their closest options are now Eugene or Medford for a full-line Sears, or Grants Pass for a Hometown...

This does leave the franchise opportunity for a Hometown in Roseburg, though, and the Hometown stores seem to be profitable - likely because their management is more invested in the location, and has the freedom to do more than a full-line store manager does.

 

[american lockpicker]

I'm glad to see that so far nothing near me is impacted.

Me too.

 

[hairtrigger]

Sears has been around for ages. They even used to sell heroin via catalog back when it was still legal. They're going too chinese now, trying to drive down costs and coming up with some subpar stuff that doesn't even deserve to bear the craftsman name. I continue buying it for the warranty, though, even if it is a downgrade in quality. Their warranty can't be beat. I break a lot of tools.

Really, REALLY disappointed in the new universal socket set. Made in china and a rust magnet. Won't buy it even though I really want it, especially the go-thru universal ratchet. Been needing a tool like that forever.

 

[byoungblood]

I'm really surprised that there aren't a couple of Sears locations in the Memphis area on there. Two are in dead or nearly dead malls and are in pretty bad neighborhoods to boot.

 

[wafrederick]

Was lucky too,The Sears Store in the Lakes Mall in Fruitport,Mi has been spared.Was on the list to be closed.Includes the K-Mart in Muskegon,Mi too that was on the closing block and spared.

 

[geologist]

Amen brother. That is the beauty of capitalism. If you don't like what your getting paid, stop complaining and blaming your employer.

When your employer starts paying you in scrip, we'll see if you start complaining. Walmart alone employees over 2,100,000 people at minimum wage, with no overtime (and you risk getting fired if you hit a true 40 hours). Although that's not really the point, you might want to brush up on economics, fellow buckeye. How many manufacturing jobs has our own state lost? 30m+ and counting in the US alone. There aren't a whole lot of ways out for a many people.

Get tangible skills that are in demand and make more money.

That costs money, and when many people can barely afford rent/house payment and food, there isn't a whole lot of money (or time) left to pursue tangible skills.

If you don't like what a business pays their employees, then do business elsewhere. It's as simple as that.

Not really. I would have preferred to shop at the 200 or so businesses Walmart has put out of business in my town. The next town over is the same way, as is the next over from it.

The free market decides.

Wrong again. Management decides. Why hire 1 skilled employee when you can hire 15 idiots? That seems to have worked well for Walmart, since they've grown quite profitable doing so. On the bright side, fortunately there are still some real stores that actually have employees that know a ratchet from a wrench or a hammer from a nail. The "free" market only decides the the rate of consumption. Higher wages tend to lead to more consumption or a higher realized price. Lower wages (overall) lead to lower realized prices for products or services. It's simple economics that you seem to have inversed.

This livable wage **** is a joke and another attempt to try to make society more fair. All it does is bring the top down to the bottoms level instead of lifting all workers up.

I've got a friend from Sweden that works at a gas station. He works full time at a service station, receives *free* healthcare and a college education (includes graduate school if he chooses to go), and is earning a relatively great pension. He pays 5% more in taxes than my stepfather, not to mention that Sweden has an enormous sovereign wealth fund. The per-capital income is much higher as well.

So what is my point? Greed gives you an economy racked with inequality, and ignorant drones. Fairness eventually drives everyones quality of living upward.

 

[kythri]

Walmart alone employees over 2,100,000 people at minimum wage, with no overtime (and you risk getting fired if you hit a true 40 hours).

Please cite facts, because after this blatantly false statement, I'm now disregarding your entire post.

Walmart employs 2.1 million people. Not 2.1 million people at the minimum wage.

"Making Change @ Walmart", a site highly critical of Walmart, quotes an IBIS World figure that the average hourly wage at Walmart is $8.81/hr. Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr.

I'm not arguing that this is a good wage, I'm not arguing that this is a "fair" wage, I'm not arguing that this is a "living" wage.

I'm arguing that you need to use facts, not falsehoods.

I know from personal involvement with Walmart employees here in Oregon that they not only start employees at above the Oregon minimum wage of $8.50/hr, they pay benefits starting 30 days out, they staff employees at 40 hrs/week (at least, those that want it), and that there's overtime readily available for staff that wants it as they're understaffed - likely because of people buying into the BS and lies about what an evil empire the company is.

For all these spurious and exaggerated claims of businesses failing because of Walmart (200 in your town? Seriously? SERIOUSLY? Provide me a list.), I've yet to see it.

What I find hilarious is that all of these claims were made against Target when they first came to town - likewise, claims were made against the shopping mall when it was getting built, and the same claims were made against Costco when it was being built. Now Albany, OR is getting a Walmart, and we're seeing these same claims - oddly enough, the local small businesses aren't the ones complaining. The complaints are actually from mouthbreathers that are trying to STOP people from applying for employment - as if no job is actually better than the several hundred Walmart is bringing to town.

No, these small businesses are actually competing - advertising all of the ways that they aren't like Walmart, and advertising the goods and services they offer that Walmart can't or doesn't.

 

[KraftwerkMk1Jetta]

I used to be a Craftsman/Sears fanatic. I would go to my Sears nearly every weekend to buy tools. My local store shut down about four years ago, and the nearest one was a half hour away. Got tired of seeing more and more Chinese tools bearing the Craftsman name. Snap On truck started stopping by my work and I haven't looked back.

 

[JB740i]

http://www.chronicleonline.com/content/sears-store-close

There is a Sears and a Kmart in the sad little mall in my county. The Sears is closing. The Kmart will remain.

 

[geologist]

Please cite facts, because after this blatantly false statement, I'm now disregarding your entire post.

Walmart employs 2.1 million people. Not 2.1 million people at the minimum wage.

Good luck in your state. In Ohio, all but the manager makes minimum wage, and not a penny more. Managers are what? 1/10th of 1% of that 2.1 million? Statistically, I doubt that makes my post "blatantly false".

Ohio's minimum wage goes up 30 cents to $7.70 per hour on January 1st. After taxes, that's a ****** take home. On top of that, the 20 or so Walmarts I've been to (OH, KY, PA, WV) have almost always had an employee bitching about having to clock out to keep from hitting 40 hours, less they be subjected to the wrath of the manager, and a possible firing.

But that shouldn't surprise you... if you were serious about having an intellectual conversation, 15 seconds on Google would have revealed any of these:

Wal-Mart to Pay Over Half a Billion Dollars to Settle Overtime and other FLSA Lawsuits


Wal-Mart Accused in Suit of Shortchanging Women on Pay

Oh, and here is another good article, full of links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Walmart#Working_conditions

As for my town, it's Portsmouth, Ohio. I would be more than happy to give you a tour of Portsmouth, Sciotoville, Wheelersburg, and New Boston to show you all the shuttered businesses.

 

[griff99]

Well there are 3 Sears near me, 2 full line ones in local malls, and one Essentials, the Essentials one is on that list. I can't say I'm surprised, I've used them from time to time because their parking lot is easier to get in and out of for in store pick up items, but I don't think I have ever seen more than about 20 customers in there at one time and the employees always seem to be chatting or making other busy work for themselves. I'll have to keep my eyes on their stock once the clearance pricing hits, maybe I can pick some good stuff up cheap.