second floor

[Dave Maxwell]

Long time no post.
I have a 42x72 pole building. I had 5 inches of concrete poured. I would like to add a second floor. Will the concrete be sufficient to support the post? I have in floor heat and hate to have to cut it out to pour more concrete.
Thank you

 

[Radix2]

If it is a pole building, the loads should be on the poles, the floor is not a foundation. How is the upper floor to be supported ? by a wall or a post to the ground floor?

 

[Dave Maxwell]

From outer wall to verticals in middle.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

If you are thinking about setting a post on top of the floor with no footing beneath it the basic answer is no.
If your concrete is thick enough You might be able to use a plate to spread the load out which could help. But I wouldn't do it without knowing how thick the concrete is or what type of load it will be supporting.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

That's what I was worried about. Going 12 in centers on supports would probably make a nice fault line. One wall will be 16 centers and 41' across 12 foot off wall. 2 would be10x30 mezanine. Then a 25x25 room off the 41 foot wall and side wall

 

[ishiboo]

If it's 5 inches with rebar it's probably fine to put a second floor in. Lots of buildings have walls/floors added without a second thought. That is assuming 2x4 or 2x6 walls with a double sill plate on the bottom. I would not land a big second floor on just a few posts on a regular slab.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

It has the heavy wire on it. The squares. I planned on 2x6 on bottom to build off of. The 10x30 will have engine parts, car parts etc. No engine blocks . the 25x25 will be a man cave area for my family etc.

 

[Zeke]

If you are thinking about setting a post on top of the floor with no footing beneath it the basic answer is no.
If your concrete is thick enough You might be able to use a plate to spread the load out which could help. But I wouldn't do it without knowing how thick the concrete is or what type of load it will be supporting.

Lessee, the OP said the concrete was 5" thick. Check. OP said he had the work done so he knows the strength rating. Check. 2-post lifts are placed on 5" of 3000 psi concrete all the time if you read here much.

So, a lally column or post in a bracket ought to be good for most 2nd story platforms. I would only be concerned with the spacing in respect to the intended use and overall structural design of the new floor system.

However, no one can give accurate advice w/o seeing the plan and possessing the skills of a structural engineer.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

Have a drawing of layout but can't load it from phone and don't have internet at home

 

[69gp]

Long time no post.
I have a 42x72 pole building. I had 5 inches of concrete poured. I would like to add a second floor. Will the concrete be sufficient to support the post? I have in floor heat and hate to have to cut it out to pour more concrete.
Thank you

This is what I would do. snap a line in the middle of the wall you want to install. Turn the floor heat on and after several minutes shoot the floor with an IR camera. Should be able to find someone who can do this for you. Take a grease pen and mark the heating pipes in the areas of where you would want to install your columns. Say that the pipes are on 6 inch centers. I would then core a few 4" holes between the pipes. Than using a vacuum cleaner and not the one u use on the inside of the house I would undermine the floor. You should be able to go down at least 18" with ease and out to the sides a foot or so. After just fill with concrete. you now would have a good bearing support.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

Sounds good. Though I don't have the floor heat done. Just the tubes in floor. Nothing else.

 

[Scott r c]

My 2nd floor is supported by the exterior of my pole barn. The trusses sit on the 2x10's that span between the posts on 8' centers. I came back in and framed a 2x4 wall under the 2x10's to support the weight between the posts. I don't have a footing, but I did use a rock base under my slab and a slight thickened edge.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

All joist will be attached to outer wall. I'm on a rock base that was compacted and let set for months. Sand on top of that with 2 in 25 psi foam board on top of it

 

[Dave Maxwell]

If you can picture a 41x71 rectangle. On the front 41 there will be a 10 x30 on each side running parallel with the 71. The 30 will be attached to the wall on the 71 sides. There will be a walkway at end of those 30 foot runs going across and connecting the two. Then there will be a 25x25 family room running along one of the 71 walls and one wall will be supported in middle of room and other will be on a wall that runs across building 12 foot off of the back 41.

 

[Zeke]

I thought I had read that right in the 1st post. That's MASSIVE. You could put 2 of my house up there and then some. I calculate over 3500 sq ft !

 

[Dave Maxwell]

Its full as already too. Why I need a second floor.

 

[slowthump]

5" of concrete. I would do it with no worries.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

Going to see how many supports I need for my 10x30 mez. 16 on center for the joist. 2x10 mounted to outside wall. It is 9 foot centers. I'm going to put a few more vertical post between them. Figure with another 2x10 header on other side of the 10 foot width, I could probably get away with post every 6 feet on the 30' run

 

[Zeke]

Going to see how many supports I need for my 10x30 mez. 16 on center for the joist. 2x10 mounted to outside wall. It is 9 foot centers. I'm going to put a few more vertical post between them. Figure with another 2x10 header on other side of the 10 foot width, I could probably get away with post every 6 feet on the 30' run

As mentioned above, you can spread the load (dead and live, don't forget to calculate 'live' load) out at the base of each post or column.

One way:

Lally column base plate:

And bracing both top and bottom can be figured in (that is if you can deal with the spread at the floor):

 

[larry_g]

That's what I was worried about. Going 12 in centers on supports would probably make a nice fault line. One wall will be 16 centers and 41' across 12 foot off wall. 2 would be10x30 mezanine. Then a 25x25 room off the 41 foot wall and side wall

This says to me that your building walls for the interior support, correct?

Imagimeering a bit consider this. For the base plate of the wall use a 2x10 to spread out the load. Build the wall in standard stud framing. Sheath the wall with good plywood inside and out making a large beam out of it. Glue and nail the ply and stagger the plywood joints inside and out. Set this up and continue to build the flooring on top of the wall. This will spread the load across the width of the 2x10 and the stiffness of the wall due to the plywood will spread any point loads above along the length of the baseplate. One could also use a 3x timber for the baseplate.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Dave Maxwell]

The inside wallsnof the mez will be open for access ability to the area underneath. One end of the 25x25 will be open also. Going with big I joist so I won't have anything in the middle either. Don't want to lose all of downstairs

 

[Dave Maxwell]

Going to start on the back 12 foot run. Just have 12x41 area which above will be storage. Do I need the I joist for this or use 2x10's? Noticed my house has 2x10 under main floor

 

[Dave Maxwell]

So here is my plan. Run a 2x6 between the post in ground and put 2x6 on 16" centers between with a 2x10 across the face. Will that work for the joist support on the outside wall

 

[Dave Maxwell]

I drew this while sitting in a parking lot. Not pretty, but shows my plan

 

[kbs2244]

If he is putting a wall then won't the wall plate serve to spread the weight?

 

[Dave Maxwell]

Think the thread died

 

[ishiboo]

Yes, if you use a full wall instead of a few posts, the weight is MUCH better distributed on the slab.

2x10 is probably not sufficient due to the spacing between the posts. I would plan on probably a 14" LVL on the outside. That still leaves a lot of weight on the posts, I would personally have an outside wall that everything sits on.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

16 inch centers on outside wall between post. Should I go 12