Second zone is still hot with thermostat off

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Hey guys. So last year the furnace would turn off and not turn back on. Baseboard and oil heat.Come to find out the main floor thermostat went bad. I replaced that and all has been fine. The basement thermostat had not had the batteries changed in years, was old and no longer functioned so the heat in the basement has not been in on a few years (or so i thought). I changed the batteries and the display lit up but it was reading WAY high for the ambient room temperature so to see if it still controlled anything i put the temperature above the room temp and the heat turned on. The smell of burning dust... YUCK. Anyways, the heat would then not shut off even with the thermostat off. I swapped out the thermostat in the basement for the same one as upstairs the day after. The next morning after the change in thermostat it was bone cold and all was well. Turned the heat on in the basement and it worked! I turn the thermostat off when i go upstairs so the basement isn't heated while nobody is in it and it stays tolerable but sometimes heat is nice. Well, a few days after i noticed the basement was hot as were the baseboards. So the thermostat isn't turning the heat off? With the upstairs thermostat off and the furnace off, the basement thermostat commands the furnace on and it turns off. Turn the thermostat off and furnace goes off (i don't know how long it should take to turn on or off, but it does). The main floor thermostat works just the same. I have a red and white wire coming in. White goes to the "W" terminal and red goes to the "R" terminal which is jumpered to RC (same as thermostats i took out before i installed these new ones). No cooling in the house so only "heat" and "off" should function. Fan setting is on "Auto" on both and not "on". Voltage at both thermostats. What could be the problem here?

 

[Ohmthis]

OP, are you sure that the furnace thermostat controls the baseboard heat as well? Without some type of relay or contactor, I'm not sure how that is happening. What type of baseboard heaters are they?

 

[American Locomotive]

Sounds like you have a single circulator doing two zones and your basement zone valve is stuck.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

OP, are you sure that the furnace thermostat controls the baseboard heat as well? Without some type of relay or contactor, I'm not sure how that is happening. What type of baseboard heaters are they?

What do you mean what type? And yes as far as i can tell it turns it on and off when i turn the heat switch on and off with the other zone off.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Sounds like you have a single circulator doing two zones and your basement zone valve is stuck.

Where would this valve be and how can i diagnose the issue? Easy fix or not really? If i somehow got it unstuck with the thermostat off, im guessing i would feel the heaters go cold?

 

[DFB]

Do you heat hot water with the boiler too?

A few time in Spring what has happened to me when I shut down my thermostat control for heat after the weather warms, I would still get heating water circulating thru my radiant tubing and what was going on was my check valve was hanging up and the hot water was siphoning itself thru the heating system under pressure when all I wanted to do was heat hot water. The valve can be taken apart and cleaned but most times just manually opening and closing it a few times with circulator pump running clears what ever is causing the brass float to hang up and its good the rest of season without any more issues

 

[yeldogt]

Sounds like a sticking zone valve -- you should see them after the circulator. Sometimes its the valve ......controller -- or both.

Systems can use circulators to zone -- not as common -- you would have more than one pump.

 

[Climatecreator]

Where would this valve be and how can i diagnose the issue? Easy fix or not really? If i somehow got it unstuck with the thermostat off, im guessing i would feel the heaters go cold?

If you have multiple circulators then you could have a bad flo-check on the basement zone.

Do you have more than one circulator "pump" or do you have zone valves?

Besides the thermostat you would also have a zone control box that tells the boiler to run. More common with circulator zones than zone valves but still possible. Otherwise just a transformer, a bunch of wires and zone valves......

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

This is valve for downstairs zone. I traced wires back to it. Now what? Lol

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Can I just turn valve off now to stop water going to that zone until I can diagnose the issue or replace it?

 

[rlitman]

Can I just turn valve off now to stop water going to that zone until I can diagnose the issue or replace it?

Yes.

 

[yeldogt]

Make sure it's the valve before you close the service valve -- you don't want the circulators to keep running against a closed valve.

there are a few ways this could be wired ....


That's a common valve -- do a search and see what's available online ... shod be lots available to figure out why it's not working and what 's required to fix.

 

[Climatecreator]

Can I just turn valve off now to stop water going to that zone until I can diagnose the issue or replace it?

Yep. And probably just need this http://amzn.to/2rSAKTv and you'll be good. Easy twist off, twist on as long as power is off

You can tell by that lever. If the lever easily goes all the way down the valve is open. If you remove the number one terminal wire and then wait a few minutes and the lever is stiff and only goes Little bit, SOMETHING is calling it on and it's NOT the head.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Yep. And probably just need this http://amzn.to/2rSAKTv and you'll be good. Easy twist off, twist on as long as power is off

You can tell by that lever. If the lever easily goes all the way down the valve is open. If you remove the number one terminal wire and then wait a few minutes and the lever is stiff and only goes Little bit, SOMETHING is calling it on and it's NOT the head.

That part is the one that's on the other zone piping. The exact one there. I had issues with well plumbing and had to first replace the pressure relief valve, then noticed the gauge wasn't working so replaced that as lastly the well switch. It was sediment buildup from hard water, etc. Wondering if that's what did this valve in. So all I have to do is turn power to boiler off, take off wires and twist on a new valve? No unbolting?

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Ok, so just to check I would need this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Taco-Po..._-rv_mobileweb_rr-_-202312926-_-202270182-_-N
Not this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-4-in-Zone-Valve-571-2/202312926

Is the piece that gets soldered onto the pipe just a fixture for the zone valve to sit into?

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

May be a stupid question but if there's water running through the pipe and i pull that valve off, how does it not propel water out? Also, if the valve is stuck open, is it like a butterfly valve in there or is it just the valve that i'm replacing that's the shut off? I can't picture exactly how it works if that piece disconnects without shutting the water off lol.

 

[American Locomotive]

Did you do the check suggested in post #13?

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Did you do the check suggested in post #13?

Yes, it was easy to close, meaning the valve is stuck open? But is that an electrical failure or a mechanical one?

 

[Climatecreator]

May be a stupid question but if there's water running through the pipe and i pull that valve off, how does it not propel water out? Also, if the valve is stuck open, is it like a butterfly valve in there or is it just the valve that i'm replacing that's the shut off? I can't picture exactly how it works if that piece disconnects without shutting the water off lol.

Just make sure you've pulled off the wiring as I said and make sure it's that.

That second link you sent is the whole valve assembly. If you get that you can twist that off and see for yourself how it goes before attempting on your system. But it costs more than you need.

 

[bobbyjean]

taco zone valve..... try this ....power down and try to "exercise" the valve ...use the handle on the side to work it.....i don't see many of these but i seem to remember that was the trick for customer start up's for heating season.
i think the box stores may carry new powerhead's if needed.

 

[mm08822]

OP, here is the link to spec sheet for the valve:

https://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/100-3.pdf

Also a screenshot of the wiring.


Remove wire from valve terminal 3. Does the pump stop?

Put the wire back on terminal 3.

Measure the voltage across terminals 1 & 2.
Remove the wire from valve terminal 1. Does the valve open and pump stop?

This will help isolate whether the problem is in the boiler control, valve or t-stat..

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

It was the zone valve. Thanks guys. One of the wires inside melted (the red wire) as well as the plunger was stuck.

 

[hmardown]

Hey guys. So last year the furnace would turn off and not turn back on. Baseboard and oil heat.Come to find out the main floor thermostat went bad. I replaced that and all has been fine. The basement thermostat had not had the batteries changed in years, was old and no longer functioned so the heat in the basement has not been in on a few years (or so i thought). I changed the batteries and the display lit up but it was reading WAY high for the ambient room temperature so to see if it still controlled anything i put the temperature above the room temp and the heat turned on. The smell of burning dust... YUCK. Anyways, the heat would then not shut off even with the thermostat off. I swapped out the thermostat in the basement for the same one as upstairs the day after. The next morning after the change in thermostat it was bone cold and all was well. Turned the heat on in the basement and it worked! I turn the thermostat off when i go upstairs so the basement isn't heated while nobody is in it and it stays tolerable but sometimes heat is nice. Well, a few days after i noticed the basement was hot as were the baseboards. So the thermostat isn't turning the heat off? With the upstairs thermostat off and the furnace off, the basement thermostat commands the furnace on and it turns off. Turn the thermostat off and furnace goes off (i don't know how long it should take to turn on or off, but it does). The main floor thermostat works just the same. I have a red and white wire coming in. White goes to the "W" terminal and red goes to the "R" terminal which is jumpered to RC (same as thermostats i took out before i installed these new ones). No cooling in the house so only "heat" and "off" should function. Fan setting is on "Auto" on both and not "on". Voltage at both thermostats. What could be the problem here?

I didn't read all the reply's so forgive me if someone mentioned this already.
my house is 12 yrs. old & I never had an issue until 6 or 7 yrs. living here. I have a zone that's just for the master bedroom/bath & closets. for some reason all of a sudden the heat ran constantly. I couldn't lower the heat or shut it off. it took a while to figure out but we found a staple going through the thermostat wire. keep in mind that at least 6 yrs. went by without any trouble. so if nobody has suggested it maybe you could check or replace the thermostat wire. good luck.
hmardown

 

[hmardown]

I didn't even read the very last post . glad you got it squared away.
hmardown