Securing Large Crown Molding During Cut

[moparfreak]

So I'm trying to put the final touch on the mudroom so I can get back to shop setup. I'm re-using some leftover 5-1/4" crown molding that came with my cabinet purchase. It's maple, and very hard. I am using a 12" sliding miter saw, and because I'm piecing together a number of smaller sticks (18" - 36") to build the room up, it's rather difficult to secure the molding well while I'm cutting it. Despite putting a lot of pressure and going really slow, I've already had 3 pieces pull into the blade violently and pretty much trash those pieces. Also scared the hell out of me. I did some research and found that maybe if I build a custom bed/jig to secure the crown it'd be more stable, but the way I see it these jigs still won't keep the molding from wanting to pull in to the blade as the cut is being made, it will only keep it from twisting.

http://thewoodworkersnews.com/2012/11/crown-moulding-jig/

Any thoughts? Once I'm done with the jig I'll probably be able to get a spring clamp of sorts on it, but I'm not really confident in that, and having a big 5" piece of maple pull into a 12" blade like that rattled me pretty good. If this is 2-3/4" pine I'm sure there won't be any problems, but this is what it is...

Other thing to note is it's the Kobalt SCMS, stock blade (probably a 40T), so not a fine tooth crosscut like I have on my 10" Dewalt.

Any advice from the woodworkers out there would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Kevin54]

A good sharp blade should keep the wood from pulling into the blade. Something along the line of a 60 tooth or more, like a plywood blade. Piecing together pieces, you can cut the Crown on a 45 degree at any direction, whether flat, or whether standing up like Crown should be stood up.

But I would say to change your blade to a fine tooth new blade.

 

[IN2CJS]

If you have a sacrificial fence it will give you support along the cut, but with the jig you should have no trouble holding it. I'm also thinking your blade needs changing.
Good Luck

 

[moparfreak]

OK, I was thinking that would be a good start. Just unboxed the 12" slider on Sunday since the molding wouldn't fit on my 10", so hadn't had a chance to upgrade the blade to something better. I like the saw itself a lot, on first inspection.

I'll pick a blade up at HD lunch, and build a jig tonight and see how it goes. One the one hand I want to make sure for safety but also I can't afford to keep trashing these pieces. I've got about 24' of wall to do, and maybe 32' of total molding to work with. If I have to order even one 8' stick from the cabinet-maker, it's $76 That's more than a new blade!

Thanks,
Adam

 

[thadru2001]

Kreg makes a jig for big CM like you're working with...

https://www.kregtool.com/store/c47/saw-accessories/p265/crown-protrade/

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003ARSYR6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Seems to have pretty good reviews. However, I don't own one so I can't comment on how well it actually works.

 

[moparfreak]

Believe it or not, I've got that jig! It's convenient to use for setting up, but the wood kind of slides around a bit on the slick plastic. I feel a bit more secure with it on the actual saw table/base. having another separate piece that can move on its own doesn't help with the secure holding problem. Although I spent $30 on it, I suspect building my own jig will render it obsolete...

 

[CNGsaves]

Episode of This Old House had crown molding being cut. His trick was lay it on backwards so that flat of molding was against a stop he had installed. If necessary, clamp the piece itself into a jig of some sort so it can't move around.

 

[Daedalus]

so hadn't had a chance to upgrade the blade to something better.

+2 Upgrade the blade.

 

[moparfreak]

Just picked up one of these puppies. Should take care of my needs on that saw for a lifetime. I run Freud Diablo blades on my table saw and 10" miter with nice results. Hope to report good results after tonight...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-1...e-Flawless-Finish-Saw-Blade-D12100X/202786845

Thanks,
Adam

 

[aggierailroad]

Clamp a piece of wood as a fence on the horizontal saw base. Cut the crown upside down and backwards, at the spring angle. This probably doesn't make sense, but there are some great videos, and I show how I did it in my Black Hat thread here in this forum.

All you have to do with this method is push down and it "locks" into both fences. A great Freud blade helps too

 

[willymakeit]

Make sure you have the right blade. To much hook angle can and will pick the wood up off the table. A sliding compound saw will use a different blade, not to say I haven't used others over the years.
Where is the clamp located on your saw? Is it close enough to clamp moulding down to table?

 

[macgyver37]

A tip to keeping things from sliding like the crown on the Kreg jig, take some peel and stick sandpaper discs and stick them to the jig. 180-220 grit works great to keep things from sliding without much effort.

 

[Daedalus]

Since we're on the subject, I bought the Bench Dog crown molding jig a couple years ago. Completely worthless, except for the illustrations on the face of it. It wasn't even close to square! No square, no value when it comes to crown molding. I learned to position the wood pretty well just using the saw fence, but otherwise I would be tempted to try the Kreg jig.

 

[moparfreak]

My advice, keep your $30 and leave the Kreg jig in the store...I bought it cause I had not previously done crown molding, but after spending a bit of time it doesn't appear to me that the Kreg jig is value added, especially since it doesn't have any hold downs integrated. So, I got pretty far with things last night, a quick run through. The jig linked from the site above seems to be a really nice / simple design so much kudos to that author. My copycat version below...

Author says to use 3/4" baltic birch. That's nice stuff that I don't usually have lying around. Since the fence and table will be mostly supported by the saw, I feel comfortable using what I had available which were offcuts of 1/2" birch ply. Pic below shows the fence/table assembly. Just need to make sure it's good and square:

https://bitcasa.cfsusercontent.io/v2/conv/image/preview/xlarge.jpg?digest=pp7jE9aLYuLWpFfSJzJDOw==&*****=ooxiN5slRXU9mtua&payload=SPklDc__VyRo8QW0ldsrIf-Sp5IEtH8ll-oYWY4O75EjTd41suEIvNtt9w1Qld0R6CKKzWeLHn26Qnkj1UZaXxpjZDyX6dQZtSKeuia00UEUolCoYrHO1bAJNrkurl_nAEbvVhE2tpDmqX-4ielfT6kQUPdUdDsuWCh4_KQSYuBVmmxVwobzkxco6YPqB8jdWLXCNjSsZUMzvEqM-lAPUvgV-STZ3QMH5XiGyb0tnUWNishHQ0OyhDHi6Q==&blid=fe72b03a5e3e593d429946752aa780ba29981d89ccdededd2e3d9d2897a1affe&disposition=inline

Then turned my attention to the adjustable stop piece. Trick here was routing out the 4 grooves. Used a plunge router, 3/8" straight bit (spiral would have been better for plunging but this was fine), and straight edge fence. Set the fence up on a test piece to measure and get the right offset for that base/bit combination. Good to go:

https://drive.bitcasa.com/v2/conv/image/preview/xlarge.jpg?digest=PNEnCaon2o6ZI7YfZAK9Hw==&*****=_rHWwA0-B7amCQY6&payload=vKGA2K3dOIznwuR9OT1QdTcKiSvC72enNagP1Tqn9-WmbjizqizZj22imBMdHKP5bDRZzZBHBtP7lGnuWw_NWPHzGcn2rmmv7QCMFkVWl8EZeQdP-EWdKFGsKVmFCYKkRpcCRag9QxBxYyMIZS_gzb4dizOIem77yVAKzGufJzQnlCjkzF459EH3r0lGTguCDc5OUkJlTLaozzfADcUB-VFqnUW9-JnDSLyee2ttnIF2BJgBGnFi_mJV&blid=07aaa2d7e0fadc0db6d547cda727e1d1e56a22234f9da87614584bf05ebfbc9f&disposition=inline

https://bitcasa.cfsusercontent.io/v2/conv/image/preview/xlarge.jpg?digest=oiMGBLJA-dbprxOUzaQ3Yw==&*****=Rk_bqcZadYlmv90t&payload=BGiOu5afDRvPeUS8ItqTRGwc0sRvNE8w_dmU1MJGi7WVaJgV1hhDpbgiwOZJ-RGpV3WZnH7bYkldngdPQ3azW5nYPMq7i6sC64oOmY6dxLbUeuAkHwG_QwHz0kpVBIVBjegm4QTg5hZV8KZBYe8WLNfOXJHE_PmTMtEOv4iqTdxSwQqQQAbf5H7Gs3ZNbrD6nxwh2XdAAoy6ThnCtMBM1ne4d_jc9cFOlKDXqsvuE8ujfkJQfntkgQHv&blid=f81d24e25c9a0763e6da8fe5cf2de663349889e816d2b9e945b1144ee101f2b1&disposition=inline

Then install cleats at the edge of the adjustable stop to get a nice fit on the table, and here's a quick fitup with a piece of the large crown. You can get it nice and snug, feels very secure. The tall fence also gives a nice surface to register a strong spring clamp w/ hinged tips at the end, and seems to really hold the crown very securely. I am liking how this is turning out.

https://drive.bitcasa.com/v2/conv/image/preview/xlarge.jpg?digest=oMEtv9uJGLxw9ODQeJwHCA==&*****=hsuxZP2UTgg80ayR&payload=D9tbbimJ-xv6x4wtvzga-1Byz_1nBj95lUrRZU6xe4ywvu7odTfrun7Xai-DyQbnA2FE9iQSuRJX0Gqfb6NVT-5VJ6wzegjyWdR2jX9xkeGAHz2iWBvMd4ynfVlybCraZ4iRxtyxzYta6mY618FGy0QxSwfYj5GyTk8r7nAIuz92uvyfbyP4sJMerlqu6LXuq_HOtpLDifpLI6es3StOy5JgRmnvvN0LY3Sf-dom4JWPhyUUDsvvCsxI&blid=fd61c41664b81602c6dc5d36cd71ede1028270210fb29e332297f8f961ae4ca7&disposition=inline

Then it came the matter of installing it securely on the saw. At first I tried just clamping it, but the clamps got in the way of where the crown rested, so I found the holes on the saw fences, drilled a couple for 1/4-20 countersink head machine screws. Had to take the upper fence off, as mounting holes only existing in the lower fences on this saw, didn't want to drill holes in my new machine quite yet.

https://bitcasa.cfsusercontent.io/v2/conv/image/preview/xlarge.jpg?digest=tUwpqlPMnZ3U3b6MEFcZRg==&*****=IUgvzApF50FmiBa_&payload=5VYP6zqCE_bOBmWl6KZxDehMx0wmnHLNMcNLGByVMUkcK6BUCsGufyzkHlQeP2S6TUzNjoCnEg56k7Gg4RmYVLxiZKgOvXfZE4bX2tEiMiQkM0_bDgj4sO3rgL4-9sFPJFw2td6z1olN7zpWdhmqEisQ-C41INq80uN05EE3egFMOtSb9MuAz_yQNSBgwVt9tSjQzjP8ICikXrSs8NbM7kwOQA7UEAKty_t68R4Cd4GzJXY_3XAE49_a&blid=06c934a65a2c3ab36394841689a8d453ec49abd2c55e2334d1be59c5417403d1&disposition=inline

Here it is all installed, note also the carriage bolts for the adjustable stop, I'll replace the wing nuts with nicer knobs sometime in the future:

https://drive.bitcasa.com/v2/conv/image/preview/xlarge.jpg?digest=Vom_3atlLtQpk1WiMUBRfw==&*****=qmUWP6PO7GZR0xXV&payload=b8Vuzs2VB7qm1ad_VaicWsfExfNXKi8KySDbToHM2GZbTZtg182wSBY8VzN91CdrtpAkJDe2d4cF36ux84rUOfGCkF4IOL-YDe5oAgXpYKHtLlnWkATO1MSmzDH6og9C0PxXsgf29K0OZ-HtXcbxhTTE6DV7NaLKlLzu6paKbEwwsmb_P0dRhH588tiD4d5w91a8cw-TdjrprgP8xCNRAGAmm6Jo2b04Jvdo-gI2mYrz9jbCiRcA5Wqz&blid=ec67c47dd7d3e751e36fb4d1b899fe8887a726258a3e5c569a258e08f6e1a35b&disposition=inline

Was about to do the first test cut, and remembered I had to change the blade! Here's what I got from HD yesterday:

https://bitcasa.cfsusercontent.io/v2/conv/image/preview/xlarge.jpg?digest=8gnkqC2Yb1Yz1vsCJR8OPA==&*****=7PYBsO-XjXlixDT-&payload=1goJHWXkneKlzzKmrIoCeUq86NAyUhpWWqIG5poyHM6pjFy8yg-LmWVdGf-pyLazFod_lBxohynS7mWpiPOA8QN1vIW7h4XHTTCJpU1PiNM2pNwR3ZaVn-7dI75V4dCN9pwrnaFyP23NntIuRMoHK9GVN59gMHQxp3nBNlKwFEKF707ir4ZauX4J0YJtmKDpDiQQpnVd9cTj72ht-qe6AgnSxFUFV7hYDNlGfd09v_6AkpUEv9Mv_-cGKg==&blid=ca67374e8b1c63539ccb38e648df0f378ca43e0c8b7081d655fb307b6fe6dee3&disposition=inline

Here it is existing with the standard saw that comes with it, it's a 60T so wasn't so bad, but better to get a premium saw w/ higher tooth count and better tooth grind on it, thinner kerf. I am impressed as the Kobalt saw really includes a lot of nice well thought out features that make all things just a bit easier than most. Saw blade changes on this one are a dream compared to my older 10" Dewalt.

https://drive.bitcasa.com/v2/conv/image/preview/xlarge.jpg?digest=uWSu7DNXeWVCIrH9_Iz_0A==&*****=bDCgknrUhMFyj5wk&payload=ZGywAo8FcillhqwD2z-dmc5qIzbN6QpHZSL_lkXhUhQM5z0tmEB4P2Ku062VbjkreGx-jym4u8s_wepwzCNk-jlLCXHjtNx3MhvqldpWky4skCLnUwD8NfjkrFUDnuO3tWCpQ5-kEI-zPTVO0GpYyq2BEL9HpCSTGRiECgdzpuZiJ0G8Nyq_VH-hIY9LX3n3BAynBI_uI5cJRF4Cj9rixlIhs3BvYG71qP2EGUa7VBgb0nRwWFiCT49JxQ==&blid=3ce410fb70ef8832ce385d374b781f4838c47725257720a7b7cf662b38473429&disposition=inline

Was juust about to get the blade fastened and try cutting, and then got a call from my tired wife that my 1 yr old daughter was crying so that switched me out from shop-rat to Daddy duty. Hope to try it out this evening but my initial impressions are that this jig, with the spring clamp and a nicer thin kerf blade should not exhibit any of the safety issues or workholding problems I was frustrated with on Monday...

Good jig, good design, hopefully some good results...

Thanks,
Adam

 

[moparfreak]

Came back to it last night and this setup works really nicely. Don't even have to hold it, it's very secure. Did have to do some trimming on the right hand side to get clearance for the belt drive housing to allow it to plunge all the way through on the bigger pieces. Bandsaw made quick work of that.

I will also say I came away extremely impressed by this blade. It is easily the best finish cut I've seen on any machine, any blade, period. Probably will want to get a similar blade in 10" for my tablesaw eventually before I do any more fine finish projects.

https://bitcasa.cfsusercontent.io/v2/conv/image/preview/xlarge.jpg?digest=edjEO49xua_pY2tmJuA4qQ==&*****=T2IKuB4bfLHJdyFC&payload=7BM8ntk8yq0oQe3pG9aedppCLIkgBZVoCWTloLqWnbTzXt5Ezj9vhmbJWv56bHuP0nuFxMPHEQl0UOTL0uHeAreaE3AUKgPIwdJx1MZm97qCUZ_a7iMULPlw6H3bb_dkQOwH3ok0makI1XZxaA-en2ksE8rSugGpQE0a9YqOVyBXYiWp564RqrVKfnooU40XPx7AScNyyYf9ibQyo7jkCU7BwIkSKV2pfLEZ_GTCMqyqYUtFKpTRdB10&blid=0354f64117fc7a5b3053822cdf3f874aa1fc48cf529243c5ae638495343dfa68&disposition=inline

https://drive.bitcasa.com/v2/conv/image/preview/xlarge.jpg?digest=hf2uzvdxZIEG907-RPt92Q==&*****=9VoPjprSV_DJq3PN&payload=qADn3-sfMklrnDq8blnEhI03j33XYh2YEVjZ-cdaIwuuBXNCYoiPlDm5WM4wE5JKObSUFtiA2cyl6Miwvad7At4_RTcLwYd-dHqxCnjBRqa1S973uUodk8SlJoqRThN-dGNzg_KSfSe63Ql3H1FMAZp_m2bbf9o2wvgvez5Xc2-Ntyf6LVnPZ_H2lq7SnotiSgVZhY3xrBPM1dQ1YIG-8gHMXNCSIN3ceyks0yR9hdkAW3Z6lJxUpC9K&blid=357ee167534d8f8588dedc82515cf7ec291787008166db98fcef20e0a69a4a62&disposition=inline

Thanks,
Adam