Securing Safe to Wood Floor

[cdd1]

I want to secure a safe to a second story wood floor.

I do not have easy access to the underside, so I need something similar to a self expanding bolt that is used in concrete.

I was thinking of getting some large toggle bolts. Any reasons that won't work? Should I be considering alternatives?

Thanks!

 

[HoseB]

Get the largest toggles you can fit through the holes in the bottom of the safe. I put mine in a corner of a closet and was able to secure it to the floor, to the wall behind it and the wall next to it, so essentially "three point".

 

[synchro7]

I have a good cure. My (new to me) safe weighs 1100lbs. My cherrypicker will not lift it unless I choke up to a foot from where the jack attaches. Of course it stays on the main floor.

 

[Steevo]

How big is this safe?
If you can get it upstairs, it can probably easily be stolen, even if lagged, bolted, etc. to the floor or framing. 5 minutes with a sawzall and a demo blade, and the floor, stud, wallboard, etc, comes out with the safe.

A neighbor of mine had a gun safe stolen from his attached garage. It was almost 5' tall, and 30" wide by 30" deep, and weighed 600 pounds empty. It was lagged from inside the safe into two wall studs, three lags in each, for a total of six 6" x 3/8" lag bolts. The safe company did the "installation". They told my neighbor, "nobody can get anything behind the safe to cut the bolts, because it is held so tightly up against the wall."
The thieves used my neighbor's sawzall, his electricity, and his hand truck, which they also stole. He now has a hole in his garage wall sheet rock, just slightly larger then the outline of the safe, and two missing wall studs.

I don't know what alternatives you have beyond large toggle bolts, but don't assume that will save the safe.

 

[HoseB]

Yep, that will work...a heavy safe is a good safe, but I don't think my shop stairs will handle 1100 lbs. No way to get a lift up here either.

 

[kellymc]

Can you disguise it as a nightstand or another piece of furniture?

 

[HoseB]

A neighbor of mine had a gun safe stolen from his attached garage. It was almost 5' tall, and 30" wide by 30" deep, and weighed 600 pounds empty. It was lagged from inside the safe into two wall studs, three lags in each, for a total of six 6" x 3/8" lag bolts. The safe company did the "installation".

Did they bolt it to the floor? If not, they did not do a professional installation. And yes, there are ways to steal anything. The idea is to discourage or slow 'em down. Even though I have a safe, the building is alarmed and the dirtbags have to get through two double-dead bolt steel doors before they're in the same room as the safe.

 

[HoseB]

Can you disguise it as a nightstand or another piece of furniture?

I did the reverse. I stenciled "Gun Safe" on a standard metal cabinet on the first floor of my shop. Locked inside are my long hand tools (pry bars, paint handles, etc.). I know the dirtbags (assuming they can read) will take this first before they go looking for another.

 

[6768rogues]

When I worked for our county government, I was put in charge of petty cash. No matter how it was locked up, whether it be in a locked cash box or desk drawer, it got stolen. Finally I put it in a file folder marked "PC" and shoved it in one of my unlocked file cabinets. No one ever stole it again. Get a small safe and lag it to the floor of the closet, but leave it with nothing of value except a "FU" note inside. Then get a safe disguised as a piece of furniture and put your valuable stuff in it. The thieves will break out a sweat getting the one out of the closet.

 

[Steevo]

I did the reverse. I stenciled "Gun Safe" on a standard metal cabinet on the first floor of my shop. Locked inside are my long hand tools (pry bars, paint handles, etc.). I know the dirtbags (assuming they can read) will take this first before they go looking for another.

Better yet, get a gun safe, and lock up your brooms and mops and paint poles in it, and keep the guns in the broom closet.

 

[HoseB]

Better yet, get a gun safe, and lock up your brooms and mops and paint poles in it, and keep the guns in the broom closet.

Yeah, thought of that too, but...I still like to know my stuff is locked up.

 

[cdd1]

How big is this safe?
If you can get it upstairs, it can probably easily be stolen, even if lagged, bolted, etc. to the floor or framing. 5 minutes with a sawzall and a demo blade, and the floor, stud, wallboard, etc, comes out with the safe.

A neighbor of mine had a gun safe stolen from his attached garage. It was almost 5' tall, and 30" wide by 30" deep, and weighed 600 pounds empty. It was lagged from inside the safe into two wall studs, three lags in each, for a total of six 6" x 3/8" lag bolts. The safe company did the "installation". They told my neighbor, "nobody can get anything behind the safe to cut the bolts, because it is held so tightly up against the wall."
The thieves used my neighbor's sawzall, his electricity, and his hand truck, which they also stole. He now has a hole in his garage wall sheet rock, just slightly larger then the outline of the safe, and two missing wall studs.

I don't know what alternatives you have beyond large toggle bolts, but don't assume that will save the safe.

Safe is not heavy--only 66 lbs empty, but this is the "quick access" safe and will only have HD weaponry; tactical shotgun and maybe a pistol or two--which is why it's going in the bedroom closet.

I acknowledge that with some time and equipment, it's a goner, but I'm only looking to realistically keep out petty thieves and my son.

Thanks everyone for the input

 

[rsieracki]

Better yet, get a gun safe, and lock up your brooms and mops and paint poles in it, and keep the guns in the broom closet.

Even better keep you gun on your hip, practice your John Wayne impersonation and blow the sons of ******* away

 

[HoseB]

Safe is not heavy--only 66 lbs empty, but this is the "quick access" safe and will only have HD weaponry; tactical shotgun and maybe a pistol or two--which is why it's going in the bedroom closet.

I acknowledge that with some time and equipment, it's a goner, but I'm only looking to realistically keep out petty thieves and my son.

Thanks everyone for the input

That ain't really a "safe" by definition...more of a cabinet. I would spend the effort in diguising/hiding it more than I would bolting it down.

Have you seen the picture-frame safes? They come in all sizes. For something bigger, you can use a wall mirror.

 

[cdd1]

That ain't really a "safe" by definition...more of a cabinet. I would spend the effort in diguising/hiding it more than I would bolting it down.

Have you seen the picture-frame safes? They come in all sizes. For something bigger, you can use a wall mirror.

Yeah, I get your point. The safe/cabinet will not be visible without moving hanging clothes in the closet. Not as cool as a wall safe, but it will be obstructed--and I need it bigger than a pistol safe. The SG is about 39 inches, IIRC.

 

[LSU]

I've go with largest "molly type" bolts you can find. I'd suggest you cut a 3/4" sheet of plywood to the exact size of your safe and put it between safe and the floor. This will prevent the safe from leaving a "footprint" in the wooden floor if you tighten up the bolts. If you've got the drill, drill through the botom of the safe and put in a "center" bolt assuming therer is a bolt hold in each corner. If you can mount it in the corner of a room you'll also have two sides of the safe to bolt to the wall.

I think I have a very similar safe to your safe. The sole purpose of my safe is to slow down the crack addicts that do the hit and run burglaries.

If someone comes in with a plasma torch or a cordless grinder, odds are they're going to get in.

Keeping the guns away from your kid is the number one goal and I commend you for this.

Another thought, keep your grinder, crowbars, etc. out of sight and locked up. Make the scum come with their own tools.

 

[123Go]

Not for quick reach weapons by any means but for good hiding see If your fridge or large upright freezer rolls forward easily as many now days do. Some safe corps have long gun wall safes and even smaller like this picture safe here can be installed easy behind them. Not too many thieves ever think about looking behind your fridge unless they're told one is located there. No guys/gals mine isn't there...lol

 

[nadogail]

You might consider using a Circuit Breaker Panel with a Danger High Voltage sign on it as a Gun Cabinet

 

[mikegt4]

I may be wrong but it seems to me that the first place that a thief will look is a bedroom closet. I would try to find someplace a little less conspicuous, maybe behind a fake cold air return vent. Under stairs would give more room behind a vent.

 

[shoot summ]

My Son had a 2 story house, had an attic area around most of the 2nd floor. One bedroom had a closet with a "bookcase" in it, it was hinged and opened to another similar sized closet. Looked like it was very easy to construct, and you would not know it was there unless you were told.

 

[toolmiser]

Consider this a bump. I have an idea to make securing it to the wall maybe more secure. How about using a lag bolt into a stud, but putting it thru a bearing as close as possible to the wall. My thinking is that a "reciprocating saw" will just make the bearing rotate back and forth. I know it isn't foolproof, but might slow some idiot down.

 

[mcbane]

Your primary attack tool is more likely a large wrecking bar rather than a reciprocal saw. So hiding is a good strategy. At least for hand guns you can recess a Fort Knox type lock box in the floor. Put a soiled cat litter box on top to hide it. If you don’t have a cat, throw a few almond roccas into the litter. No thief will mess with that box but you can easily slide it aside if you need to get to the lock box yourself.

 

[simnil]

...or move to Sweden where you aren't allowed to defend yourself, least of all with a gun, so no small upstairs safe needed!!

 

[steve308]

Put a few gold bars in it, the weight will make it hard to lift.

 

[jetnow1]

Years ago I worked for a company that remodeled my store, enlarging the showroom
by moving the offices back. I removed the old safe by just rocking it back and forth till I
popped the bolts out of the concrete floor. When I installed it in the new office you can be sure I did a lot better job than that professional installation.

 

[tinmanwpk]

My dad built an expensive custom home. He had a basement where the HVAC ductwork ran in the ceiling joists. He also put in a fake duct identical to the others where he stored his valuables. While that isn't what the OP wants exactly because of his son, it may be a good idea for someone here to make note of.

 

[Hubmonkey]

Placement is the key... In a corner where the bottom can be bolted down, the back can be bolted to a wall and the left side of the safe can be bolted to another wall.. they will not be able to pry up on the safe to take it. By putting the left side of the safe against a wall that takes away a lot of the ability for them to pry the non-hinged side. The hinged side has hinges and the locking lugs to defeat but the right side of the safe is still accessible to cutting.

I did a bunch of research on safes before I went and bought mine and most are defeated by prying or cutting and the vast majority of them are cut into from the side. So for me it was key to have a good placement and a good door that is hard to defeat with pry tools.

When we had our house built I had the safe in place to maximize the safe ability to slow down the majority of smash and grabbers. As stated above we bolted it in a corner with the left side against a wall. The right side has a wall built with a built in bookshelf between that and the other wall. The wall that is against the right side of the safe is a solid wall of 2x4's that were screwed and glued together and covered with sheetrock so it looks like a standard wall.

Keep in mind that every safe can have the lock drilled and defeated by someone with the knowledge to do so.

Hub

 

[Hawke]

Based on almost a lifetime in insurance, here’s a few comments. It doesn’t matter how big or heavy your safe is, once unbolted, an experienced person can move it anywhere really easy. A couple of water pipes underneath and you can roll it anywhere. Stairs, just let it slide. Just watch a commercial safe mover work.

Nonetheless, the floor of the safe should have a few holes that will allow you use a few coach bolts to secure it to the floor.

The more important thing to consider is the construction of the safe. The walls and top should be filled with concrete containing steel bearings. Makes cutting with saw, oxy or plasma almost impossible. The door should have a glass plate inside. If drilled, blasted or cut, the glass breaks and deadlocks the pins.

Having said all this, with the decrease in cash use, safes are used less and less for cash. Criminals are better at money laundering, and using other means of storing money - bitcoin? They also see better options in crime, so instead of stealing money from safes and banks, cybercrime and other computer crime - phishing and covert bitcoin mining are more lucrative, and less likely to be caught.

 

[4 Ever-Fish N]

What brand and model safe did you get?

Placement is the key... In a corner where the bottom can be bolted down, the back can be bolted to a wall and the left side of the safe can be bolted to another wall.. they will not be able to pry up on the safe to take it. By putting the left side of the safe against a wall that takes away a lot of the ability for them to pry the non-hinged side. The hinged side has hinges and the locking lugs to defeat but the right side of the safe is still accessible to cutting.

I did a bunch of research on safes before I went and bought mine and most are defeated by prying or cutting and the vast majority of them are cut into from the side. So for me it was key to have a good placement and a good door that is hard to defeat with pry tools.

When we had our house built I had the safe in place to maximize the safe ability to slow down the majority of smash and grabbers. As stated above we bolted it in a corner with the left side against a wall. The right side has a wall built with a built in bookshelf between that and the other wall. The wall that is against the right side of the safe is a solid wall of 2x4's that were screwed and glued together and covered with sheetrock so it looks like a standard wall.

Keep in mind that every safe can have the lock drilled and defeated by someone with the knowledge to do so.

Hub

 

[strength_and_power]

21 years of full time safe moving and vault building here. 66#s in a height tall enough to hold a SG is going to be some thin steel and will probably tear or deform around the bolt head. It won’t hold up very much to beating or prying much less any power tools.I’d use 3/8” dia lag bolts with a fender washer on the bottom bolts to the floor. Your second floor is probably 3/4” plywood and the chance of hitting a floor joist is pretty slim. If you can locate a wall stud and anchor to it as well you will gain a slight bit of security.



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