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Security camera installation ... suggestions?

John T

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Nov 15, 2011
Messages
903
I am getting ready to purchase a camera system for the house/garage.

hardwired to the garage.

I'm pretty sure I've settled on this system... probably add a couple nicer looking dome cameras for the inside of the house...
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9082243&CatId=6035

any suggestions/tips?

also, can I simply plug a monitor into the back of the DVR for viewing, or is a dedicated laptop better?

still learning about this stuff...

thanks.
 
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jeff000

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May 6, 2012
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Monitor for viewing is fine.
I would HIGHLY recommend 1080p camera's though.

I have the 1080p SwannView system (1000$ from costco online) and it is excellent. If you want to be able to see what is on the camera outside of the 15 feet, get the 1080.

I bought a couple extra cameras and only got the 720p ones, highly disapointing after the 1080.
With the 1080 I can read the licence plates on the cars the drive by on the street (I have one camera on each corner of my garage with their views making an X). I had one of them a 720, and I could only make out the make an model of the car, but no chance in reading the plate. So now the two 720 cameras are in my basement, one watching the floor in the utility room (sump pump) and one watching my fish tank equipment.

I use the feed on my phone to monitor things while I am away.

I'm not sure i would put any inside, it just makes things feel impersonal and commercial.
I use my other two in the back yard, it's impossible to come within 4 feet of the house without being on camera. I also make sure that they are angle to no invade neighbors activities, as I don't want them to feel like I am monitoring them.
 
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John T

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ok,
thanks...'

good information... but now I'm back to square one...

I thought the best was a 540-700TVL

now I'm looking for 1080p

are the 2 things associated? TVL vs 1080p ?
 

Nowater

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Nov 29, 2011
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744
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Southwest Florida
I have read that most people mount their cameras fairly high up, to give an overall view. The problem with this is the bad guys look down to avoid showing their face. Maybe if the cameras were mounted below head height, faces would be easier to see.

Is there any way to tryout different mounting heights before the final install?
 

K'ledgeBldr

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Aug 22, 2011
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Location
Johns Creek, GA
I have read that most people mount their cameras fairly high up, to give an overall view. The problem with this is the bad guys look down to avoid showing their face. Maybe if the cameras were mounted below head height, faces would be easier to see.

Is there any way to tryout different mounting heights before the final install?

Cameras that are within hands reach are distroyed cameras.
 

243

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Jun 24, 2008
Messages
90
Once you have the system installed, and it runs for a period of time, do you delete the data and start over?

Will the system alert you when a camera picks up an image?

If the system is destroyed, is or can the data be sent to an internet storage location for review?
 

michaelrc51

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NJ
Once you have the system installed, and it runs for a period of time, do you delete the data and start over?

Will the system alert you when a camera picks up an image?

If the system is destroyed, is or can the data be sent to an internet storage location for review?

The way a DVR works is it records and when the storage (Hard drive) is full it starts to record over the previous information. This is what is really important, you need to build your system with your requirements around a few things.
The size of DVR you should use will depend on how you answer these questions:
1. How many cameras?
2. What FPS do you want to record at?
3. What resolution or SCIF are you going to record at?

That Swann 3TB 1080p HDR package looks nice.
I ended up purchasing a Q-See package from Home Depot. I want a PTZ and they had a nice package.
I work in this industry and with these packages and the pricing it is to good. I cant even get a decent DVR for the price of most of these systems.

You can set up email or text alerts on some DVRs but it depends on the brand. Most DVRs have inputs so you can program that input to trigger a recording or an alarm. This all depends on the DVR you buy.

A DVR is essentially a computer with a hard drive that records the information so if the hard drive is destroyed so is the information on it.
Usually a DVR is hidden or in a locked container.
 
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John T

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Nov 15, 2011
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903
Yes
I plan to hide/lock the dvr
Hopefully my german shepherd would get them first... But they could shoot him
Its a terrible thought but reality.
My detached garage will be multi camera
 

Keithinsc

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Feb 13, 2011
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1,129
Location
Sandhills of SC
I installed my first system about 2 months ago. A Qsee from Home Depot.

When you get yours, unpack everything and take inventory.
Plug everything together and get it working BEFORE mounting everything. I set mine up with all 8 cameras just sitting on the living room floor. Sat in my recliner getting familiar with the setup menus, internet settings and camera settings. Much easier than trying to do that standing next to the DVR up in the attic!

When we were mounting the cameras, my Wife had the images live on the laptop while I was standing on the ladder. Made it easy to tell when we had a good location. Then it got screwed into place.

I work in the middle of a giant factory, no windows. I log in and check the house cameras to see what the weather is doing!
 

muncie21

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NE Ohio
I have several wireless IP cameras made by Foscam, that I purchased on Amazon relatively cheap. They have both indoor/outdoor and wired/wireless units. I think it's worth at least a quick look. http://foscam.us/#/page/1
 

243

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Thanks Michael'...I will read more because I am interested in a system for my next home.
 

ADCS

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Toronto
In for more info.
I would also like to set-up about 4 cameras to monitor outside my house & garage.

For those that have cameras around the perimeter of their building, are you using wired or wireless cameras? Or a combination of both?

Tapping into power lines is easy. Running data cables from the front of the house to the backyard seems like it will be a huge PITA.
 

michaelrc51

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NJ
In for more info.
I would also like to set-up about 4 cameras to monitor outside my house & garage.

For those that have cameras around the perimeter of their building, are you using wired or wireless cameras? Or a combination of both?

Tapping into power lines is easy. Running data cables from the front of the house to the backyard seems like it will be a huge PITA.

I would suggest to stay hard wired, I have had issues with some wireless stuff and the wireless is much more expensive.

That is the PIA about a camera installation. Anyone can mount a camera, the hardest part is running the cables. Keep them on the perimeter of the house, mount them on the eves and run your cables through your attic.
 

4xdog

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Santa Fe, NM
In for info here. My place -- house and detached garge -- is prewar brick with thick walls and few penetrations.

For those with systems in place, how about some pix of how you've mounted cameras and especially how you've routed cables?
 

michaelrc51

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In for info here. My place -- house and detached garge -- is prewar brick with thick walls and few penetrations.

For those with systems in place, how about some pix of how you've mounted cameras and especially how you've routed cables?

You'll have a lot of fun then.....LOL

You are going to have to make your own penetrations. Just use your head when drilling. Mounting them is simple, in most places simple plastic anchors will work fine. Usually you only use lag shields or something of that nature when dealing with larger PTZs or pedestal mounted cameras.
 
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hedgehogdog

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Sep 21, 2010
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Salinas, Ca
i'm looking for info also...i have a gate i would like a camera on but the unit would be at the house about 1500' away...is it possible to make a run that far..??
 

michaelrc51

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i'm looking for info also...i have a gate i would like a camera on but the unit would be at the house about 1500' away...is it possible to make a run that far..??

Are you talking about a cable run or trying to view something at that distance?
 

jeff000

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May 6, 2012
Messages
437
ok,
I'm learning....
recording resolution is in 1080p
and the cameras are rated in TVL.....

I'm liking this one..... quite pricey but the reviews are great...


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8182797&sku=S88-1432

Costco has that system for $1000

Having video is useless if you can't see what's going on. It's the night vision that is behind in every system, just the way it is, so when you have poor resolution and night vision it makes for a terrible video.

I'll take a picture of my mounting in a bit here, and see if I can grab some video to sample.

As for running the wire.... well that's up to how you want to run it. I have mine ran hidden in the walls.

I have my DVR hidden as well, it would be pretty tough to figure out where it is.
 

michaelrc51

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Costco has that system for $1000

Having video is useless if you can't see what's going on. It's the night vision that is behind in every system, just the way it is, so when you have poor resolution and night vision it makes for a terrible video.

I'll take a picture of my mounting in a bit here, and see if I can grab some video to sample.

As for running the wire.... well that's up to how you want to run it. I have mine ran hidden in the walls.

I have my DVR hidden as well, it would be pretty tough to figure out where it is.

It isn't behind. It is these cheap cameras. To do it properly you would need IR illuminators and better cameras......but those cameras are a bit more expensive. Wide dynamic and low LUX cameras are the way to go but for $1k you will buy a couple of fixed cameras, it would be a few $$$$ to build a small system.
 

Beemer533

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Syracuse, NY
i'm looking for info also...i have a gate i would like a camera on but the unit would be at the house about 1500' away...is it possible to make a run that far..??

I don't know if you have power at the gate, but to go that far your options are fiber or a wireless bridge. Either way you need power at the remote end.
 

hedgehogdog

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Salinas, Ca
Are you talking about a cable run or trying to view something at that distance?

I don't know if you have power at the gate, but to go that far your options are fiber or a wireless bridge. Either way you need power at the remote end.



i'm still in the process of building, so i will have power...what is a wireless bridge and would it be better/worse than fiber....?
 

Beemer533

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Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
2,057
Location
Syracuse, NY
I am getting ready to purchase a camera system for the house/garage.

hardwired to the garage.

I'm pretty sure I've settled on this system... probably add a couple nicer looking dome cameras for the inside of the house...
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9082243&CatId=6035

any suggestions/tips?

also, can I simply plug a monitor into the back of the DVR for viewing, or is a dedicated laptop better?

still learning about this stuff...

thanks.

Not sure where you are in your purchase decision, but this is what I am using :

3 MP IP POE powered cameras
Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I

Hikvision DS-2CD2132-I

For POE power I prefer to have a separate poe switch like this;
POE switch

But you can get an NVR with built in POE if you want to keep the networking work to a minimum : http://wrightwoodsurveillance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67&products_id=380

I use a similar model just without without POE built in: http://www.hikvision.com/en/Products_show.asp?id=6489&showid=1

Note that if you stick with all Hikvision cameras you can use their free NVR software on a PC. It is a cheaper option than a standalone NVR, but depending on the number of cameras, you will need a pretty strong PC to be able to record at the higher resolutions.

WD purple 3tb

Screen capture from the free app that you can use with the NVR. This one is from my Galaxy note 10.1. Keep in mind this isn't the full resolution that I record at, this is just for mobile monitoring.
tempFileForShare_zpsv8n5rgir.jpg
 

jeff000

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Messages
437
It isn't behind. It is these cheap cameras. To do it properly you would need IR illuminators and better cameras......but those cameras are a bit more expensive. Wide dynamic and low LUX cameras are the way to go but for $1k you will buy a couple of fixed cameras, it would be a few $$$$ to build a small system.

I have wired up million dollar state of the art government and private camera's. Even the $20,000 dollar camera's with multiple remote IR illumination give a garbage picture at night compared to during the day. Most of the high security places go thermal imaging for overall monitoring, with only the closer camera's at point of entry being normal camera's, and those ones they almost all have enough light to avoid using night vision.

The linked system with the 1080p cameras can see great at night. I can make out even small details from far away, but not colors, which makes things like license plates very hard to read, and while I can get the shape of a persons face really well, without color it makes it much much harder to identify who it is.


I don't know if you have power at the gate, but to go that far your options are fiber or a wireless bridge. Either way you need power at the remote end.

I like the POE (power over ethernet) you can get 1000' reliably, but I would go shielded going that far. Normally at the 1000' mark you would need to boost it, but going to a gate house that may not be possible.
I have ran up to 2500', but that was with shielded teck cable and not your normal cat6e cable, and not your standard switch either.
But you could just put a fiber switch at both ends and have no issues since you will have power out there.
 

Beemer533

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Syracuse, NY
I like the POE (power over ethernet) you can get 1000' reliably, but I would go shielded going that far. Normally at the 1000' mark you would need to boost it, but going to a gate house that may not be possible.
I have ran up to 2500', but that was with shielded teck cable and not your normal cat6e cable, and not your standard switch either.
But you could just put a fiber switch at both ends and have no issues since you will have power out there.

You aren't going that far with POE though without special extenders, though. You certainly can't get 2500' from a standard POE device.

The devices that can extend POE that far are not cheap.
 

softailgarage

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Apr 20, 2011
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Bullhead City, Az.
Before you buy anything check out Zmodo on Ebay. I got a 8channel system w/500gig dvr, 4 cameras, cables for under $200.00. It's not a bad system, definitely worth the money. Wireless is good for short distance. I also have 2 wireless cams both at the front house area, while the monitor is at the rear of the house & I have a problem receiving from 1 camera. The house is a 3BD house, average size. You can also purchase extra cable at reasonable prices on Ebay too if you have a long distance from cam to dvr.
 

michaelrc51

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NJ
I have wired up million dollar state of the art government and private camera's. Even the $20,000 dollar camera's with multiple remote IR illumination give a garbage picture at night compared to during the day. Most of the high security places go thermal imaging for overall monitoring, with only the closer camera's at point of entry being normal camera's, and those ones they almost all have enough light to avoid using night vision.

The linked system with the 1080p cameras can see great at night. I can make out even small details from far away, but not colors, which makes things like license plates very hard to read, and while I can get the shape of a persons face really well, without color it makes it much much harder to identify who it is.




I like the POE (power over ethernet) you can get 1000' reliably, but I would go shielded going that far. Normally at the 1000' mark you would need to boost it, but going to a gate house that may not be possible.
I have ran up to 2500', but that was with shielded teck cable and not your normal cat6e cable, and not your standard switch either.
But you could just put a fiber switch at both ends and have no issues since you will have power out there.


It is night time, you will NEVER be able to view it like a daytime camera, there just isn't enough light. I don't care if you buy the baddest Avigilon or other high end camera and illuminators everywhere, you just won't see the color as you would during the daytime.
Like you said cameras closer to the building in a lighted area will be able to identify someone much better than a camera that is pretty close to black and white in the dark,.....It's all about the design of the system.

I too have installed many different systems for many government agencies.
The thermal imaging is used in select areas and costs a lot!

I guess you don't certify the cables you run?
The contracts we do require certification, Cat6 no longer than 328 feet. Do you know what the voltage drop is on a 23ga wire over 1k feet, of course this depends on the switch you are using? But, at 1000 feet over 23ga wire it has to be pretty high.
Not bashing what you are doing but it sounds like you are flirting with danger there....
When you are looking to read license plates you use a different camera that is made to view license plates placed in a strategical location.

To the other guy, I would suggest using fiber modems.
 

American

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Aug 11, 2009
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155
Location
Granbury, Texas
I'm installing a 50' tower for WISP purposes on property, about 50' from the the house.

I've been looking at something like this:

http://www.bigsecurity.com/color-sw...ity-camera-ptz-dome-dn-hr-x-27x-wp-ir320.html

OR maybe some of these at Amazon.

I'm also curious what the TVL specs are about.

But not sure about quality or if there are better solutions out there for the money. I want to place it about 40' up the tower so I can see longer distances as we are out in the country. I'd prefer wireless so I don't have to deal with a long CAT run and conduit to the house.

Thoughts?
 

michaelrc51

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TVL are your horizontal lines of resolution. More TVL better resolution.
40 feet high you can view a very large area. To see anything with detail you would need a camera with a different lens(analog) or a high TVL digital camera.
With newer HD cameras the viewing field is a complete 90 degrees. While this is great it isn't completely useable in most cases. Most of the time the technician will digitally zoom the picture and then crop out the unwanted areas.
 

jeff000

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It is night time, you will NEVER be able to view it like a daytime camera, there just isn't enough light. I don't care if you buy the baddest Avigilon or other high end camera and illuminators everywhere, you just won't see the color as you would during the daytime.
Like you said cameras closer to the building in a lighted area will be able to identify someone much better than a camera that is pretty close to black and white in the dark,.....It's all about the design of the system.

I too have installed many different systems for many government agencies.
The thermal imaging is used in select areas and costs a lot!

I guess you don't certify the cables you run?
The contracts we do require certification, Cat6 no longer than 328 feet. Do you know what the voltage drop is on a 23ga wire over 1k feet, of course this depends on the switch you are using? But, at 1000 feet over 23ga wire it has to be pretty high.
Not bashing what you are doing but it sounds like you are flirting with danger there....
When you are looking to read license plates you use a different camera that is made to view license plates placed in a strategical location.

To the other guy, I would suggest using fiber modems.

Re the night time, I am pretty sure you are just agreeing with what I said already???

For the government and high security places I have only ran fiber, even for the camera viewing the equipment room.

300m (about 1000 feet) is the 'limit' most cable manufactures give for their Cat V/VI. And I ran one of my camera's off 1000 ft for a while (connector at each end of a new box of cable), and it worked just as well as it is now running off 50 feet of that box.
The 2500' run was a #8awg shielded custom tech cable. Was actually 6 different runs between 2000' and 2500'. In a gas plant where they wanted visual confirmation of fire eye trouble signals before sending someone in. I wasn't part of the planning to know why optical wasn't used, was just sent out with prints and a trailer full of material.

Everywhere has a spec distance limit for a cable. But honestly I almost never pull any catV/VI unless I am connecting my laptop to a PLC.
 

ADCS

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Toronto
It is night time, you will NEVER be able to view it like a daytime camera, there just isn't enough light. I don't care if you buy the baddest Avigilon or other high end camera and illuminators everywhere, you just won't see the color as you would during the daytime.

I assure you it is doable as I design camera systems that can. Catch is they are best suited strapped to an aircraft and are a wee bit expensive. :lol: :beer:

Back to the topic at hand...PoE is a fantastic idea.
 

BFBOB

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Sep 20, 2011
Messages
5,073
Camera placement -if you're concerned about someone defeating the system, have each camera in the field of view of another camera. That way, you'll have a picture of the intruder attacking the cameras. Hiding the DVR is good, but not in an attic. The heat/cold will not be good for it. Offsite recording is better, but extremely $$$. Much good advice here.
Used to be anything over 300 TVL was considered hi-rez, and little if any difference visible in the recorded image. Now, the difference between a 480 TVL and a 700 TVL camera is quite apparent, live or recorded. Better is indeed better.
Cost is always a factor - I would trade framing rate for recording quality, but it's a balancing act. More pix you can't see enough detail in isn't a help, but neither is a framing rate so low you miss the crucial instant. Bear in mind that the framing rate quoted for DVR's is typically the total for all cameras. Say it's rated 32 FPS at max resolution. If you hook up 16 cameras, each will shoot only 2 pix per second, inadequate for most situations. To get more FPS, you have to cut the recorded resolution. (it's not quite that simple, but pretty close.)
Spend a few extra bux to get the highest resolution and framing rate you can afford.
 

JT-3

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Jun 9, 2014
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Location
Austin TX
I'm leaning towards one of the Q-SEE units. Been thinking about buying one after an expensive package was lifted off my door step.
 

excavator

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May 12, 2013
Messages
167
I love the Q See system I installed at my house and the software is easy to learn as well as the smart phone monitoring. My front door cam like the UPS and FED EX guys :dunno:

3.2012.10.25.15.21.54.253.bmp

3.2012.11.15.15.27.14.795.bmp


 

michaelrc51

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NJ
I assure you it is doable as I design camera systems that can. Catch is they are best suited strapped to an aircraft and are a wee bit expensive. :lol: :beer:



Back to the topic at hand...PoE is a fantastic idea.


We were really talking about the color factor, I have seen plenty of decent night views but the color is never great due to the fact there isn't enough light.
I would like to see a screen shot of one of these views if possible?
 
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