Security Cameras

[checkthisout]

There are so many choices.

I've narrowed it down to stationary 2-4 megapixel POE cameras....probably hikvision or reolink.

Questions and statements:

1) Can you buy an NVR and simply plug it into your router and set it to record from any given camera, even if you have a combination of types and brands? How hard is that to do?

2) Should I use a POE switch or an Injector?

3) I don't really want to buy a complete system. I want to buy one or two pieces at a time so I can test out different brands and types.

4) These will all be for outdoors.

5) With a POE switch I can simply plug all the cameras into the switch and then I just plug 1 wire into the router. The switch combines all camera feeds into one, yes?

6) Two of the cameras will be wifi. With an NVR, I can record from wifi cameras and hardwired, correct?

So here is what I envision. 4 POE cameras running into a POE switch, one wire coming out of the switch and plugging into the router, and the NVR hooked to another port on the router. The two wifi cameras will obviously be connected wirelessly to the router but the NVR will record from all cameras.

How will I access the NVR? Do I ignore the apps that come with the cameras themselves and find an NVR with it's viewing software?

Some cameras come with SD cards. Do you recommend these and no NVR?

Thanks....it's jumbled but you should be able to see what I'm getting at.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

There are so many choices.

I've narrowed it down to stationary 2-4 megapixel POE cameras....probably hikvision or reolink.

Questions and statements:

1) Can you buy an NVR and simply plug it into your router and set it to record from any given camera, even if you have a combination of types and brands? How hard is that to do?

2) Should I use a POE switch or an Injector?

3) I don't really want to buy a complete system. I want to buy one or two pieces at a time so I can test out different brands and types.

4) These will all be for outdoors.

5) With a POE switch I can simply plug all the cameras into the switch and then I just plug 1 wire into the router. The switch combines all camera feeds into one, yes?

6) Two of the cameras will be wifi. With an NVR, I can record from wifi cameras and hardwired, correct?

So here is what I envision. 4 POE cameras running into a POE switch, one wire coming out of the switch and plugging into the router, and the NVR hooked to another port on the router. The two wifi cameras will obviously be connected wirelessly to the router but the NVR will record from all cameras.

How will I access the NVR? Do I ignore the apps that come with the cameras themselves and find an NVR with it's viewing software?

Some cameras come with SD cards. Do you recommend these and no NVR?

Thanks....it's jumbled but you should be able to see what I'm getting at.

I install security cameras and systems for a living (have my own company) so i can help u with this.

1) no. The NVR needs to be able to decode the codecs that the cameras use.

2) I prefer a managed POE switch. Makes it easier to troubleshoot.

Uniquiti makes a great managed POE switch:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CX...i+ts-8-pro&dpPl=1&dpID=51TqiqF4+sL&ref=plSrch

5) not wuite that simple. U need to do some basic IP addressing setup such as staticly assigning IP address to the cameras and then u need to point the NVR to the individual IP addresses.

6) yes as long as theyre on the same network. Be aware that WiFi cams can have issues due to weak signal strength and interference...

U would need to access the NVR with the software that works with it.

O and of course u need broadband internet to access them remotely. U will also need to do some port forwarding in your router to be able to access the NVR remotely.

It will be easier to use an NVR that stores all the video in one place vs. individual sd cards....

 

[checkthisout]

I install security cameras and systems for a living (have my own company) so i can help u with this.

1) no. The NVR needs to be able to decode the codecs that the cameras use.

2) I prefer a managed POE switch. Makes it easier to troubleshoot.

Uniquiti makes a great managed POE switch:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CX...i+ts-8-pro&dpPl=1&dpID=51TqiqF4+sL&ref=plSrch

5) not wuite that simple. U need to do some basic IP addressing setup such as staticly assigning IP address to the cameras and then u need to point the NVR to the individual IP addresses.

6) yes as long as theyre on the same network. Be aware that WiFi cams can have issues due to weak signal strength and interference...

U would need to access the NVR with the software that works with it.

O and of course u need broadband internet to access them remotely. U will also need to do some port forwarding in your router to be able to access the NVR remotely.

It will be easier to use an NVR that stores all the video in one place vs. individual sd cards....

Thank you! I clearly have some learning to do.......

Not a simple question to answer I know but would I be better off buying like a 4 camera system that already has a DVR or will I be better off doing it the way I'm leaning?

I think I have more options for future upgrades/changes using the POE switch and NVR vs a matched camera/DVR set?????

 

[checkthisout]

And, will I reap any benefit from a managed switch in a home system? Cost matters here....kinda

 

[Git]

It sounds like you might be better off with a dedicated computer running something like Blue Iris - have you thought about that?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

And, will I reap any benefit from a managed switch in a home system? Cost matters here....kinda

Yes. With a managed switch u can power cycle cameras without having to dig fo cords and unplug them.

Yes u have more expansion capabilities with IP based camera system..

 

[checkthisout]

Yes. With a managed switch u can power cycle cameras without having to dig fo cords and unplug them.

Yes u have more expansion capabilities with IP based camera system..

Gotcha. That switch you linked to looks like it has 8 ports but only 4 will do POE.

If I want more than 4 POE cameras I would need a bigger switch or use an injector on the 4 remaining ports?

 

[checkthisout]

It sounds like you might be better off with a dedicated computer running something like Blue Iris - have you thought about that?

No, but I am open to all options. I don't want to overdo it as it's simply a home camera system but I want to do it right by starting with a good base so I can tinker with it later.

In the setup you're talking about, the data is recorded to the computers drive?

I'll research it later so don't type too much.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Gotcha. That switch you linked to looks like it has 8 ports but only 4 will do POE.

If I want more than 4 POE cameras I would need a bigger switch or use an injector on the 4 remaining ports?

No that switch can supply power to all 8 ports...where did u read otherwise?

 

[BgBmBoo]

wylie - For residential security systems is it common practice to install a battery backup?

I've been looking into camera systems on/off for a while now and it seems to me the first thing I would do as a criminal would be to kill the power to the house. I've always wondered how most security systems addressed this issue.

 

[Git]

No, but I am open to all options. I don't want to overdo it as it's simply a home camera system but I want to do it right by starting with a good base so I can tinker with it later.

In the setup you're talking about, the data is recorded to the computers drive?

I'll research it later so don't type too much.

I think this type of system gives you the most flexibility - especially when it comes to mixing brands

BlueIris
http://blueirissoftware.com/

Regarding switches/PoE - a lot would depending on your cabling. If all your runs are homeruns - a simple $75 switch with 4 PoE ports would work fine
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BP0SSAS/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Or you can use these single injectors for $18
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PS9E5I/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Personally, I think a managed switch is way overkill and the money spent could be used elsewhere

Best advice - read this
https://www.ipcamtalk.com/forumdisplay.php/4-IP-Cameras

 

[Pwrgeek]

I have a couple of Blue Iris systems (one at the house and one at our remote property) and they work well.

For me anything security/life support related goes on a UPS.

The POE switch vs injector question comes down to this. How reasonable is it to bring all of the cables to one location and how hard is it to run power to somewhere near the cable route from the camera to the switch location nearest it. If it is easy to bring all cables to one location (like in my remote shop where the walls were open) then POE switch all the way and the one linked to above is fine. If it is hard (as in my house where the cameras are actually on a homeplug system) then I have local POE injectors for each camera.

 

[paranoid56]

i run blueirus with 3 poe cameras and wile its great if you want to tinker with it a lot, i think a standalone system might be better for the first time user.

 

[Mongo68]

What level PC are you guys using for BlueIris? i5/ i7? Im running Milestone right now but want to go to BI, but Im not sure if my PC is up to it...

 

[paranoid56]

i am running a i5 dedicated computer
cough this sweet nice Christian guy borrowing my package.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Its amazing how many different systems as well as VMS programs there are.

We install geo vision cams and systems, myrisis spotter VMS/NVRs with Bosch cameras, Bosch NVRs with Bosch cams and pelco and ever focus cams with Pelco NVRs/DVRs. The choice of equipment all depends on the customer's camera needs, budget and requirements.

As i said, theres a lot of choices and players in the field.

Have also built some custom systems using a self built PC and NUUO VMS with vivotek IP cameras...

Just did a walk through with a new customer who has avigilon IP and quasar IP cameras along with an old Pelco analog system...the rack is a mess so this should be interesting...

I also install Lorex camera systems(Costco) for customers that are on a tight budget(typically residential amd small commercial)...

For those of you running Blue Iris Im wondering how advanced it is.

Does it have movement tracking and alarm functions?

What about scheduling?

How much did it cost? Need per camera licensing?

wylie - For residential security systems is it common practice to install a battery backup?

I've been looking into camera systems on/off for a while now and it seems to me the first thing I would do as a criminal would be to kill the power to the house. I've always wondered how most security systems addressed this issue.

I ALWAYS recommend UPSs for camera systems for a number of reasons. At first customers think its just a piece of equipment Im trying to make money on. But when I explain to them all the scenarios of why they would want their camera system on a UPS, they agree and go for it.

Some customers have opted not to use them then kick themselves when they loose power and an incident happened and they had no camera coverage...

 

[willf650]

Blue Iris has alarm functions. You can send an alert, trigger an output or trigger a script on your PC. I haven't used the output or script features.

If in movement tracking do you mean it will control a camera to follow something? If that is the case I don't believe so.

It can do scheduling.

I believe it's about $50 and $10 for the companion phone app. There is no per camera licensing.


I haven't worked with any other nvr software but blue Iris seems pretty slick to me. It is the first software and companion app I've purchased and think it is well worth the price.


You can test it for a week for free. You can form your own opinion and if you work with camera systems I would like to hear what you think. I have no frame of reference to compare it to aside from a friends Costco nvr.

Here's a couple screen shots of the app on my iPad.

This is a camera on my dog crates in the basement in the dark.



This is a remote solar field in a landfill the company I work for owns. I put the camera out there to have a look what's going on in addition to a bunch of stuff to monitor the inverters. I pulled it into blue Iris as a test. The camera is physically about 25 miles from my house and the blue irs PC.


Here is the ui of some of the blue Iris setting available in the app. What is shown here is less than a 10th of the settings available in the software.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yes thats what i meant about movement tracking.

The only system we have that does that is myrisis spotter with bosch cameras. Its an expensive setup but some of our customers specifically wanted it.

For spotter, the licensing is $100 per camera.

The amount of features and settings it has makes it well worth it for a customer that needs advanced functions...

 

[willf650]

Yes thats what i meant about movement tracking.

The only system we have that does that is myrisis spotter with bosch cameras. Its an expensive setup but some of our customers specifically wanted it.

For spotter, the licensing is $100 per camera.

The amount of features and settings it has makes it well worth it for a customer that needs advanced functions...

I honestly don't know if it will follow motion. The only pan/tilt zoom camera I had died. I know you could control the camera with blue Iris and believe you could schedule it to pan to different areas.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[willf650]

And, will I reap any benefit from a managed switch in a home system? Cost matters here....kinda

I used and 8 port power injector and an 8 port gigabyte switch. For the total of about $70 I can run up to 8 cameras. The power injector was $40. The power injector can actually be supplied by redundant power supplies.

I would never do individual power injectors. That almost defeats the purpose of using Poe.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[checkthisout]

This is the camera I was looking at to start.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0147XLVIU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Wylies, almost all the cameras I'm looking at appear to be 12V so I don't think that switch would work.

 

[checkthisout]

And, this/these.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G7GMEOG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I used and 8 port power injector and an 8 port gigabyte switch. For the total of about $70 I can run up to 8 cameras. The power injector was $40. The power injector can actually be supplied by redundant power supplies.

I would never do individual power injectors. That almost defeats the purpose of using Poe.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It really depends on the situation and logistics. If the cameras are separated by more than about 100 meters, then it doesnt make sense to use a POE switch as ethernet is limited to 100m.

In that case individual injectors make more sense...

This is the camera I was looking at to start.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0147XLVIU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Wylies, almost all the cameras I'm looking at appear to be 12V so I don't think that switch would work.

That camera like most IP cameras are multi-volt capable.

The camera in the link is 802.3at POE compatible so yes it will work with a POE switch.

And, this/these.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G7GMEOG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Same with this one. POE capable...as well as 12v...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You can test it for a week for free. You can form your own opinion and if you work with camera systems I would like to hear what you think. I have no frame of reference to compare it to aside from a friends Costco nvr.

Looks like its got a good amount of features.

If i ever have some time to experiment i will definitely check it out!

 

[Git]

And, this/these.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G7GMEOG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Hikvision cameras are VERY popular in the DIY market - the problem is, HikvisionUSA will not sell directly to the consumer

That camera you linked to is the popular 2032 bullet but you need to be aware that the very cheap ones you see are going to be coming from China with Chinese firmware. (these are usually called "Brown Box" because of the generic box versus the retail box which is usually red and white)

If you go to that link you posted, right below it it will say "26 new from $87.99" you need to click that link which will take you to all the vendors selling that camera. Carefully look through the descriptions until you find some that say English Firmware.

Another option is Hikvison sells their cameras to other vendors who then put their name on the camera. LTS is one of them
https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/257-Good-source-to-buy-IP-items-at?highlight=lts

Or here is a reputable and authorized US Vendor
http://www.nellyssecurity.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=2032

 

[Git]

Looks like its got a good amount of features.

If i ever have some time to experiment i will definitely check it out!

BlueIris can be a real CPU hog depending on how many cameras, bit rate, etc. The developer recently pushed out an update that if you had an onboard lntel graphic chip it would help out

Keep in mind that the Demo Version of Blue Iris does not have the "Direct-to-Disc" recording option enabled - so you will see higher CPU activity then normal. (Direct-to-Disk does not re encode the video stream)

 

[checkthisout]

It really depends on the situation and logistics. If the cameras are separated by more than about 100 meters, then it doesnt make sense to use a POE switch as ethernet is limited to 100m.

In that case individual injectors make more sense...



That camera like most IP cameras are multi-volt capable.

The camera in the link is 802.3at POE compatible so yes it will work with a POE switch.



Same with this one. POE capable...as well as 12v...

Gotcha so "PoE (802.3af)" means what exactly? I mean I have an idea but basically any POE switch I buy set at any voltage will work with a camera that is "POE 802.3af" standard compatible.

Excellent information!

 

[checkthisout]

Hikvision cameras are VERY popular in the DIY market - the problem is, HikvisionUSA will not sell directly to the consumer

That camera you linked to is the popular 2032 bullet but you need to be aware that the very cheap ones you see are going to be coming from China with Chinese firmware. (these are usually called "Brown Box" because of the generic box versus the retail box which is usually red and white)

If you go to that link you posted, right below it it will say "26 new from $87.99" you need to click that link which will take you to all the vendors selling that camera. Carefully look through the descriptions until you find some that say English Firmware.

Another option is Hikvison sells their cameras to other vendors who then put their name on the camera. LTS is one of them
https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/257-Good-source-to-buy-IP-items-at?highlight=lts

Or here is a reputable and authorized US Vendor
http://www.nellyssecurity.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=2032

This is an enormous help. Thank you.

 

[addodge]

I have used these for over a year now and love them.
http://www.supercircuits.com/alibi-megapixel-day-night-ir-ip-outdoor-security-camera-ali-ns3014r
Very simple and they are plug and play. remote monitoring works well via cell or web browser.
Paired with one of these its as simple as running a network cable to the camera and thats it.
http://www.supercircuits.com/security-video-recorders/network-video-recorders

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Gotcha so "PoE (802.3af)" means what exactly? I mean I have an idea but basically any POE switch I buy set at any voltage will work with a camera that is "POE 802.3af" standard compatible.

Excellent information!

POE stands for "power over ethernet". Standard POE voltage is 48v so theres no setting of voltage. 802.3af is an IEEE POE standard and means there is 15.4w available per device or when seen on a device means the device uses 15.4w or less.

Then theres 802.3at aka POE + which has more power available- 25.4w.

And then some POE devices, like certain PTZ cameras, need their own POE injector, usually supplied, because they use more than 25watts...

U do have to be careful however, as there is non standard POEs that utilize a different voltage.

The ubiquiti tough switches are an example of this. Tough switches have user selectable POE voltage of either 24v or 48v. The 24v is made an option because Ubiquiti makes wireless radios that run on 24v.

 

[I Really Just Don't Know]

I'm looking to move away from ZoneMinder to a NVR. Does anyone know anything about the EYEsurv line? I can't find much other than the datasheet.

I'm looking at the EYEsurv ESDV-NVR4K8P-16, but I'm open to other options with a similar set of features.

 

[checkthisout]

POE stands for "power over ethernet". Standard POE voltage is 48v so theres no setting of voltage. 802.3af is an IEEE POE standard and means there is 15.4w available per device or when seen on a device means the device uses 15.4w or less.

Then theres 802.3at aka POE + which has more power available- 25.4w.

And then some POE devices, like certain PTZ cameras, that need their own POE injector, usually supplied, because they use more than 25watts...

U do have to be careful however, as there is non standard POEs that utilize a different voltage.

The ubiquiti tough switches are an example of this. Tough switches have user selectable POE voltage of either 24v or 48v. The 24v is made an option because Ubiquiti makes wireless radios that run on 24v.

Gotcha!

 

[Crazy68Dart]

I have 7 HIKVISION 3 MP HD bullet cams installed across two properties. Some are POE injected, and some are POE from a POE switch.

I am serving the cameras via reverse proxy over two Apache HTTP servers (one for each property).

I don't think there is a better value than these cameras if you are looking IP cameras. The firmware is feature rich, all kinds of triggers on movement, region, etc. etc. and they also have free software which I am using for 24x7 DVR onto a 4TB HDD. The software is not the most intuitive, but it has worked very well. The cameras are very stable, no firmware crashes, etc. that I am aware of.

They have been very useful to see what is going on around the property, triggers and email for mail man, triggers for when someone comes/goes from the driveways, man/service doors, garbage truck, etc.

HIKVISON also has a free mobile app, but depending on where you are at since it uses RTSP, you may run into firewall issues. This is one of the reasons I have the HTTP servers, everything is served over port 80/HTTP.

 

[Kaizen]

I'm looking to move away from ZoneMinder to a NVR. Does anyone know anything about the EYEsurv line? I can't find much other than the datasheet.

I'm looking at the EYEsurv ESDV-NVR4K8P-16, but I'm open to other options with a similar set of features.

I tried out their cheaper one and had so many problems I sent it back. not even their techs could figure out why I couldn't find my cameras but could go right to the cams using ip address.

everyone says hikavision is great but any nvr I have tried basically won't use the motion sensing and alarms. also for size of a drive my 1terrabyte drive with 3 cameras recording all the time only lasts 3 weeks.
when shopping for a poe switch note that even though there are 8 plugs only 4 will likely be sending out power. the others are for normal connections.
the manual for the one I got is like 300 pages. very confusing.

 

[jeffmoss26]

My work sells all the brands too - mostly to retail stores but some commercial and residential installs. I've worked with Axis, Hikvision, Arecont, among others. Really just depends what you want to spend!

 

[paranoid56]

I tried out their cheaper one and had so many problems I sent it back. not even their techs could figure out why I couldn't find my cameras but could go right to the cams using ip address.

everyone says hikavision is great but any nvr I have tried basically won't use the motion sensing and alarms. also for size of a drive my 1terrabyte drive with 3 cameras recording all the time only lasts 3 weeks.
when shopping for a poe switch note that even though there are 8 plugs only 4 will likely be sending out power. the others are for normal connections.
the manual for the one I got is like 300 pages. very confusing.

1tb is cheap, upgrade to two. but why do you need more then 3 weeks? normally it will just rewrite over old stuff. so if you have something you need to keep you save it off in another file

 

[Crazy68Dart]

Really comes down to how capable you are and how much messing around you want to do. Is this a hobby project or install and go? If the latter, buy a complete setup but be prepared to pay more.

The amount of record time is debatable. I don't think there is a one-for-all answer. Depends on how much you are at the property, where the cameras are surveying, etc. Right now I have about 3 months worth of full HD 24/7 with two cameras. This has saved me in a few cases, specifically with the garage build and having to go back and verify the contractor's subs claims of when and how long they were working. I am planing on adding more cams and will likely not add significantly more HDD space. So overall record time will shrink proportionally.

 

[checkthisout]

So I have a camera and POE switch arriving today....gonna play with those.

Next question here.

Going to be mounting some cameras on poles and running a Cat5e connection to the garage. This requires that the wire be run underground in conduit.

There are a few different options for cabling.

Direct burial CCA.

Direct Burial, Gel Filled CCA.

And Direct Burial Gel Filled pure copper.

I want to purchase a large spool and be able to use the cable both inside my house in the walls and in conduit outside. I don't want to use the gel-filled if I don't have to. I know it's always better to use better (duh) The wire will be well protected in the conduit.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Conduit wont protect the cable from water.

Flooded cable should be used underground.

 

[TooMuchHair]

www.showmecable.com has good prices and service.