Security Cameras

[sleek98]

I know there was a few threads in the past but I cannot find what I remember seeing via the search.

I am looking for outdoor cameras that are true HD quality, that I can look at live but also have it record, sound is a big plus this time around as well. What is everyone using? They can be wired as the house is not fully built yet so I have time to run the cables.

Or is my best bet going with a Nest or Canary Cameras and paying for their annual storage fees?

Looking at 4-6 cameras.

Thanks
Chris

 

[IdahoMan]

You know, if they made Trail-Cameras more modular (instead of a solid brick) they would be an ideal form of surveillance.

 

[Killer95Stang]

I've had good luck with Q-See POE 4mp IP NVR system from Costco. Q-see uses propriety software with Dahua made NVR and cameras. Just make sure you plug the unit into a UPS type battery backup, because the NVR s tend to be sensitive to power spikes.

 

[PeterT]

I have a similar GW security, been up and running 2 years and no problems.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=0Z2-007F-004R5

 

[Git]

I don't think you need to worry about an actual camera just yet, technology changes too fast and who know what will be available 6 months to a year from now when the house is finished.

I would be more concerned about running the wiring. Probably the easiest/most popular would be to use a Power Over Ethernet (POE) using Cat 6 with all your cables running back (homerun) to one spot (either to a NVR or a Computer running something like Blue Iris.)

The things to think about right now - where to mount the camera's and it never hurts to run some extra lines 'just in case'

 

[Keel]

My take, and your mileage may vary..
1) put the camera's out of sight.. if they see them they will defeat them , either by covering them or a hat/hood.. a spray bomb at the camera, makes it blind..
(put out a few cheapies for them to see and if they try to defeat your not seen camera(s) still are working
2) get a good set of camera's.. almost every day you can see on the news a robbery with the video footage a grainy mess that you couldn't i.d. the person if you wanted to..
3) replace the storage drive YEARLY Every time it rewrites the quality suffers.. be it a spinning drive or a solid state(flash) storage, get a unit that you can replace/change out the drive..
4) again goods camera's and high mp or hd, I'd rather have to have a larger storage drive(s) to store /loop the better mp camera than to need the footage and have a grainie mess that is useless.

 

[My Old Tools]

My take, and your mileage may vary..
3) replace the storage drive YEARLY Every time it rewrites the quality suffers.. be it a spinning drive or a solid state(flash) storage, get a unit that you can replace/change out the drive..

You were doing pretty good until this. It's just not true. Drives wear but the quality of the image does not degrade. No argument, I build Full Motion Video systems for military aircraft. The drives are good until they die. Solid state drives are good until electrically or physically damaged.

 

[Keel]

You were doing pretty good until this. It's just not true. Drives wear but the quality of the image does not degrade. No argument, I build Full Motion Video systems for military aircraft. The drives are good until they die. Solid state drives are good until electrically or physically damaged.

If that was only true..
Ask anyone that does photography flash (solid state) memory/drives rewrites degrades the image.. yes it's all 1 & 0's but more missing 1 &0's the more degraded it is.. and the memory sector cells that become unuseable every rewrite # goes up= more missing 1 & 0's .
spinning drives it degrades as you never truly remove the earlier data only wrote over it.. this degrades the image as the older data gets through(mixed) with the new data and the image software can't always decide on the correct 1 & 0's to use..

Do photography with a high mp camera in raw format and this shows up clear as day..

 

[monk302]

I recently installed a Lorex system from Costco with Power Over Ethernet (one cable install) and 3mp cameras. I have been very pleased with the output from the cameras and the ability to view the footage via the DVR.

 

[WeekendWarrior83]

I use Netgear's Arlo line of security cameras. It is a wifi based system which is very easy to setup and relatively inexpensive. Not to mention they keep expanding the options as far as cameras and accessories go.

The cameras are motion activated and record video to the cloud. You can get email alerts anytime the motion sensor is activated and I think some of their Pro cameras have two way audio as well.

Edit: My only complaint is the motion sensor is a bit slow to react with their basic camera.

 

[CarModels]

I have the same cameras.

 

[astrohip]

3) replace the storage drive YEARLY Every time it rewrites the quality suffers.. be it a spinning drive or a solid state(flash) storage, get a unit that you can replace/change out the drive.

You were doing pretty good until this. It's just not true. Drives wear but the quality of the image does not degrade. No argument, I build Full Motion Video systems for military aircraft. The drives are good until they die. Solid state drives are good until electrically or physically damaged.

If that was only true..
Ask anyone that does photography flash (solid state) memory/drives rewrites degrades the image.. yes it's all 1 & 0's but more missing 1 &0's the more degraded it is.. and the memory sector cells that become unuseable every rewrite # goes up= more missing 1 & 0's .
spinning drives it degrades as you never truly remove the earlier data only wrote over it.. this degrades the image as the older data gets through(mixed) with the new data and the image software can't always decide on the correct 1 & 0's to use..

Do photography with a high mp camera in raw format and this shows up clear as day..

First, I assume MyOldTools knows what he's talking about, since he builds systems for the military. Second, I've built & upgraded DVRs, so I have a little background in this too...

Hard drives do deteriorate over time, but any decent opsys handles this without blinking. It never writes to a sector in question. An image is an image, and as long as the hard drive is alive, it's the same quality image. Exact. Same.

There is no reason to replace a hard drive until it fails. Just buy a decent quality AV-rated drive and it will last for years. I've had some last 10+ years. If you are really worried, find out what hard drive is in the system, and google it and see if it's AV rated. If it is, no worries. If it's not, I probably wouldn't buy the system; who knows where else they saved money?

Bonus thought: Don't put an SSD drive in a DVR/security system. Not only is it a huge waste of money, they actually have fewer read/write cycles than an AV rated drive. That's why no DVR (security system, X1, TiVo, etc) uses SSD.

 

[Z2V]

I'm using a system from Clearview CCTV out of their Phoenix line. It's POE and does all that your looking for I believe. I have eight cameras around the outside of the house including the one below out front. I was truly plug and play, setup was effortless.
https://www.clearviewcctv.com/

 

[Keel]

First, I assume MyOldTools knows what he's talking about, since he builds systems for the military. Second, I've built & upgraded DVRs, so I have a little background in this too...

Hard drives do deteriorate over time, but any decent opsys handles this without blinking. It never writes to a sector in question. An image is an image, and as long as the hard drive is alive, it's the same quality image. Exact. Same.

There is no reason to replace a hard drive until it fails. Just buy a decent quality AV-rated drive and it will last for years. I've had some last 10+ years. If you are really worried, find out what hard drive is in the system, and google it and see if it's AV rated. If it is, no worries. If it's not, I probably wouldn't buy the system; who knows where else they saved money?

Bonus thought: Don't put an SSD drive in a DVR/security system. Not only is it a huge waste of money, they actually have fewer read/write cycles than an AV rated drive. That's why no DVR (security system, X1, TiVo, etc) uses SSD.

The military isn't installing a 299.00-500.00 5-6 camera system either..
And they have protocalls for testing it, at service intervals..
unlike most everyone else.. that like you will not replace anything until it fails..

 

[Roberts210]

I lost my Lincoln AC/DC stick welder several weeks ago to thieves. I had been welding in a house under construction. The welder was inside the locked garage--there were no windows in the garage. Thieves broke into the house through the back door and exited the front through a side door. The homeowner had a Ring doorbell camera on the front entrance door that recorded by infrared light at night. The thieves never got closer than 10 feet to that camera and so you couldn't tell anything about their faces, although one of them appeared to have on a Guy Fawkes type of mask. After they rifled through the house, taking only a very used and abused worm-drive saw they broke into the garage and found my welder and took it.

 

[Z2V]

That *****, there is little that I despise more than a thief. Sorry to hear that.

 

[sleek98]

That's what I am having a problem with. Do I spend 2 grand now and likely want to upgrade in a couple years to the next new thing or get the nest camera for 700 for 4 and then wait for the 4K to come down in price when the next new thing comes out.

 

[glider]

I run 4 POE's turret style soffit cameras to a 3 terabyte NVR. Record in the one step down from the best mode to get a 30 day rollover. A lot of wires to run.

 

[IdahoMan]

Don't know the legalities involved, but would it be possible to modify a bear-trap to hold a human foot in place without damage?

I joke. However, there is a video on YouTube where someone trapped a dirtbag at his facility with a one-way door.

 

[TheGunCollector]

That's what I am having a problem with. Do I spend 2 grand now and likely want to upgrade in a couple years to the next new thing or get the nest camera for 700 for 4 and then wait for the 4K to come down in price when the next new thing comes out.

$2K I can set you up with a Hikvision 4MP system with probably 8 cameras and a NVR, with a switch and cable. That is pretty darn good equipment and there isn't much out there better than that.

 

[sleek98]

I am not against running cables. In the last house we built I ran cables after the fact but this time around I would rather do it while the house is open as the builder doesnt care. I am guessing I have about a month before he sheetrocks the walls.

 

[Eslader]

I second the Hikvision recommendation. They use networking wire which runs both the camera signal and powers the cameras, which means you only have to run one wire per camera rather than 2 like you did in the CCTV days.

The picture quality is excellent, and the field of vision means you can have one camera watching what you used to need 2 to cover. On my setup, 2 cameras cover the entire front yard, including a closeup of whoever's at the front door.

They're small and discrete, and mine have already caught two kids vandalizing the neighborhood and gotten them arrested.

I run mine into a computer running Blue Iris software because it's more flexible than a standalone NVR, but the disadvantage is that you have to configure the computer carefully because Windows 10 by default likes to reboot at weird times to install updates, which will kill your cameras until you sign in again.

 

[sleek98]

$2K I can set you up with a Hikvision 4MP system with probably 8 cameras and a NVR, with a switch and cable. That is pretty darn good equipment and there isn't much out there better than that.

I like the nest by a long shot, easy of install, it sends notifications that someone is there, two way talking, etc.

But after crunching the numbers it just doesn't make sense. I can upgrade to the system every couple years for the amount I would be paying for the Nest or the Canary.

I will send you a PM to see about the system.

 

[My Old Tools]

If that was only true..
Ask anyone that does photography flash (solid state) memory/drives rewrites degrades the image.. yes it's all 1 & 0's but more missing 1 &0's the more degraded it is.. and the memory sector cells that become unuseable every rewrite # goes up= more missing 1 & 0's .
spinning drives it degrades as you never truly remove the earlier data only wrote over it.. this degrades the image as the older data gets through(mixed) with the new data and the image software can't always decide on the correct 1 & 0's to use..

Do photography with a high mp camera in raw format and this shows up clear as day..

No they don't. You simply don't know what you are talking about. These aren't tape drives where the oxide falls off and the media stretches. Drives will fault sectors eventually, but you'll know it and they won't simply drop pixels. Solid state either lives or dies. Your cameras are probably showing either dust on the sensor or a bad CCD. You know nothing about digital media.

 

[My Old Tools]

First, I assume MyOldTools knows what he's talking about, since he builds systems for the military. Second, I've built & upgraded DVRs, so I have a little background in this too...


Bonus thought: Don't put an SSD drive in a DVR/security system. Not only is it a huge waste of money, they actually have fewer read/write cycles than an AV rated drive. That's why no DVR (security system, X1, TiVo, etc) uses SSD.

Thanks. Most military systems now spec SSD drives. Virtually all airborne systems do. I deploy 100 Tb systems that are all SSD. They last quite well.

 

[My Old Tools]

The military isn't installing a 299.00-500.00 5-6 camera system either..
And they have protocalls for testing it, at service intervals..
unlike most everyone else.. that like you will not replace anything until it fails..

You would be surprised what the military will deploy. Most of our drives are off the shelf drives that have additional testing done on them. Almost none are special order and built any different. The days are over where most military systems are built out of unobtainium. Most of the systems deploy with Intel processors, Microsoft or Linux OS, and Western Digital and Hitachi drives.

You are right about one thing. My camera is $1m plus, but inside is a Sony CCD. The cost is in the airborne stabilization that let's it see for miles.

 

[Musicinabottle]

You would be surprised what the military will deploy. Most of our drives are off the shelf drives that have additional testing done on them. Almost none are special order and built any different. The days are over where most military systems are built out of unobtainium. Most of the systems deploy with Intel processors, Microsoft or Linux OS, and Western Digital and Hitachi drives.

You are right about one thing. My camera is $1m plus, but inside is a Sony CCD. The cost is in the airborne stabilization that let's it see for miles.

Well, I'm going to believe you then. I think you're spot on. It makes sense.

 

[ddawg16]

There is a HUGE difference between SSD and traditional HD's. Yes, the SSD has fewer write cycles it can handle. I have an SSD in my HTPC...and we used one in my son's new gaming computer. BUT....it's only used for the OS. All data get dumped to the mechanical HD.

But like anything else, they have improved drastically in the past 5 years and will continue to do so.

In the case of what MOT is talking about, SSD is ideal for military systems....they are not bothered by vibration. And the hardware gets upgraded frequently enough so the likelihood of EOL failure is slim.

As for degradation of image....not sure what you're smoking there. If if you start to get bad sectors with an SSD, the disk manager automatically marks them as bad and doesn't use them.

Another downside to SSD's....no early warning they are going....they just go.

Getting back on topic.....OP...just run a bunch of CAT 6. I don't see any sense to wireless. You still have to get power to the camera...POE is a whole lot easier.

I have the Lorex NVR system with 6 HD POE cameras.

Here is a recording of a recent break in....wife left her car unlocked.

When I built my 2-story addition I made the space under the stairs 'data central'. I ran 2 Cat 6's and a RG-6 to each new room (and a few other places). I have this panel board where each location is wired to a wall plate. Makes it easy to hook it all up.

I also ran a 1.5" conduit to the attic of the existing part of the house as well as a 1" conduit to the crawl space. The conduit to the attic made it real easy to install the POE cameras.

 

[ddawg16]

You would be surprised what the military will deploy. Most of our drives are off the shelf drives that have additional testing done on them. Almost none are special order and built any different. The days are over where most military systems are built out of unobtainium. Most of the systems deploy with Intel processors, Microsoft or Linux OS, and Western Digital and Hitachi drives.

You are right about one thing. My camera is $1m plus, but inside is a Sony CCD. The cost is in the airborne stabilization that let's it see for miles.

COTS....Commercial Off The Shelf.

It's only custom if there is no COTS...like radar....HF doesn't carry that

 

[engineer2]

Does anyone make outdoor security cameras that are small and discreet?

 

[ddawg16]

Does anyone make outdoor security cameras that are small and discreet?

Yes....but they typically don't have night vision....as in infrared LED's to light up the area.

There are easy ways to hide them....but....you would be surprised at how many people miss them.

And I would have it deter....

Here is an example....this guy was checking out my driveway...then saw my cameras....

Wait about 20 seconds after he walks past the car....you will see him come back....

I was up...had just turned off the lights and was waiting for my Uber ride when I saw him walk by....called the sheriff....but he left before they got there. I should have let my dog out.....

 

[Musicinabottle]

There is a HUGE difference between SSD and traditional HD's. Yes, the SSD has fewer write cycles it can handle. I have an SSD in my HTPC...and we used one in my son's new gaming computer. BUT....it's only used for the OS. All data get dumped to the mechanical HD.

But like anything else, they have improved drastically in the past 5 years and will continue to do so.

In the case of what MOT is talking about, SSD is ideal for military systems....they are not bothered by vibration. And the hardware gets upgraded frequently enough so the likelihood of EOL failure is slim.

As for degradation of image....not sure what you're smoking there. If if you start to get bad sectors with an SSD, the disk manager automatically marks them as bad and doesn't use them.

Another downside to SSD's....no early warning they are going....they just go.

Getting back on topic.....OP...just run a bunch of CAT 6. I don't see any sense to wireless. You still have to get power to the camera...POE is a whole lot easier.

I have the Lorex NVR system with 6 HD POE cameras.

Here is a recording of a recent break in....wife left her car unlocked.

When I built my 2-story addition I made the space under the stairs 'data central'. I ran 2 Cat 6's and a RG-6 to each new room (and a few other places). I have this panel board where each location is wired to a wall plate. Makes it easy to hook it all up.

I also ran a 1.5" conduit to the attic of the existing part of the house as well as a 1" conduit to the crawl space. The conduit to the attic made it real easy to install the POE cameras.

I have to laugh...... they didn't "break" into your car, they merely opened the door and that kid looks just like the one in your avatar...... You sure they just didn't forget their Ipod? You guys ever catch the brat?

 

[kj_mustang]

Small enough?
https://www.surveillance-video.com/camera-ds-2cd2520f.html

 

[ddawg16]

I have to laugh...... they didn't "break" into your car, they merely opened the door and that kid looks just like the one in your avatar...... You sure they just didn't forget their Ipod?

'That' kid was a female.....she has been seen in the neighborhood....I catch the little *****, she is going to regret going anywhere near my house.

And entering the car...even if it is unlocked is still a crime. If we catch her with the meds she took, then it's possession of stolen property

 

[engineer2]

We are starting to see more night-time car break-ins. I need to cover my driveway, so a couple could go under the garage eaves and I could wire them for POE. Night vision can be added with IR light fixtures or LED arrays. Cameras are a good visual deterent, but I'd be the first person in my neighborhood with them. Would that signal the neighborhood is going to ****?

Fake cameras are another option. At a local hotel/waterpark complex, I found out all the security cameras are fake, LOL.

Small enough?
https://www.surveillance-video.com/c...-2cd2520f.html

I like that! Thanks!

 

[Musicinabottle]

Entering the car...even if it is unlocked is still a crime. If we catch her with the meds she took, then it's possession of stolen property

Oh I know that, was funning ya. I just was expecting a wrecking bar break in type of deal and about passed out when she just rode up an opened the door like she lived there. Those drugs are more than likely long gone by now. Gutsy none the less. I take it for granted that our place is a 1/4 off a dirt county road and we're the only folks on it. Once or twice a year we get someone coming in to our place of over 50 years who is lost.

 

[WeekendWarrior83]

I'm going to chime in here again... unless you're protecting a vault of gold bullion or a $100,000 gun collection, I'd seriously look at something like Arlo Pro. No wires, no need to setup hard drive storage, and pretty inexpensive. And it's very easy to expand the number of cameras or modify your setup if your needs ever change. The cameras are waterproof, have night vision, are HD quality and seem to fulfill all of your requirements.

 

[sleek98]

Ddawg16. Thanks that is exactly what I was looking for a real example form the cameras, not provided by the company itself.

I was actually checking out the Lorex website before I checked back here. If you dont mind which version is that camera? They have quite a few HD options.

 

[sleek98]

I'm going to chime in here again... unless you're protecting a vault of gold bullion or a $100,000 gun collection, I'd seriously look at something like Arlo Pro. No wires, no need to setup hard drive storage, and pretty inexpensive. And it's very easy to expand the number of cameras or modify your setup if your needs ever change. The cameras are waterproof, have night vision, are HD quality and seem to fulfill all of your requirements.

Depending on what time of the year the detached could easily have 150k-200k in cars in it, not all mine but between my father and I. Another 25k in boats and jetskis plus tools, etc.
Yes they all have their own insurance policy but if we are adding up deductibles on everything that could easily be 7-10k to get paid out, plus some of the cars would be hard to replace just do to being in the family for years.

2k in a good camera setup is not out of the question for me.

I just dont want to end up like I did at my last house and 4 years go by and the camera look like they are from the 80s resolution wise.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Small enough?
https://www.surveillance-video.com/camera-ds-2cd2520f.html

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