Security doors - off the shelf vs custom

[CGarage]

A friend of mine has about a 4,500 Sq Ft home that has a poor quality interior door going from the 3 car garage to the kitchen.

It is relatively easy to open a garage door these days.

Are there better quality ‘off the shelf’ security doors available or is custom the only solution?

The application would be to replace the interior door going from his garage interior to kitchen.

Thanks in advance.

 

[loganb]

Assuming an inswing door into the house, first point of failure is generally the latch/lock route in the jamb blowing out. After that it can be the hinge screws failing or the panel at the knob/deadbolt mortise breaking.

Lots of metal jamb reinforcements on the market to beef up the existing jamb. Fixing the next two points of failure likely requires a new panel. Lots of heavy, solid core panels taken out of commercial buildings at salvage/restore places which can generally be prepped to match the existing hinge routes. A new steel panel and frame for this application isn't that expensive either if it's a standard size.

It's all for naught though if the door isn't consistently locked. And if the bad guys or gals got that far, they're now in a garage, probably able to close the doors and work to open this door in relative peace with the extra tools of what's there. A handyman jack placed horizontally at the latch to spread the jamb will quickly open most doors in wood framed structures

 

[The Cobbler]

if the intruder has enough time & dedication, they will get in regrdless .
Your friends door must be a fire rated solid core door, not just a hollow core interior door .
give any lock picking expert 3 minutes or less with a common door lock & they're in. anyone with a cordless drill and a few tools & that's 30 seconds.
for pry resistance, probably an insulated commercial hollow metal door & frame ... or if there's that much concern, an alarm system

 

[PCustoms]

Jamb reinforcements are about the best option IMHO for an inswing door. If they can't kick it in, then they will smash the door in or pick the lock.

How secure is he looking to be?

 

[CGarage]

There is always a law of diminishing returns versus financial cost in security.

Are there any solid, off the shelf doors available that are NOT Home Depot / Lowe’s grade (I.e. just enough to pass code in the state) ?

 

[PCustoms]

There is always a law of diminishing returns versus financial cost in security.

Are there any solid, off the shelf doors available that are NOT Home Depot / Lowe’s grade (I.e. just enough to pass code in the state) ?

Fire rated doors, which are usually required anyway between dwelling and garage, are solid core and usually considerably more robust then standard "metal" doors.

Again, bit really clear what your "friend" is looking for. Typically the week link in a door is the lock set and frame. A ram hit to the deadbolt can easily crack the frame. A spreader across the door can push the opening wide enough so the lock isn't engaged anymore.

Dropping a vault door into a standard frame would look impressive not not really add any security.

Then there are windows. Easy to break and let yourself in.

 

[Kaizen]

if his garage is like most of ours the thief can probably weld up a trebuchet and battering ram.
Small improvements will deter most thieves that like to walk in and grab things and run. I have a metal solid door from home depot. No windows. Slage deadbolt with reinforcemnt as well as 4 inch jamb screws. I got the things that also cover the edge of the door where the lock is so not able to jimmy it.

Also all kinds of things like this for added kick in protection. https://www.amazon.com/Yomisga-Secu...Protector/dp/B0BQDT13JJ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Whever they do it should be part of a complete security setup. Does he still have the emergency door release that every two bit thief knows about? Ring doorbells or the like that notify moviement in garage? Motion sensor lights all around?

 

[Sumboodie]

Security guard.

People with 4500 sq foot mansions can afford it I'm sure.

 

[CGarage]

4500 Sq Ft is hardly a mansion.

Actually, the home is in a gated neighborhood with roving security rentacops who are totally useless and the front gate to enter the community is always left up and open at the guardhouse. It’s a joke to get into.

 

[Sumboodie]

4500 Sq Ft is hardly a mansion.

Actually, the home is in a gated neighborhood with roving security rentacops who are totally useless and the front gate to enter the community is always left up and open at the guardhouse. It’s a joke to get into.

It's like 2-3+ x the size of an average house.
House I grew up in was around 1100 sq ft.. I guess 2x that if you count the cellar, but it was mostly firewood storage, wood furnace, oil furnace, etc.

I mean I work in a warehouse which was originally an aircraft hangar and it's "only" about 2x that.

 

[firebirdparts]

I have no clue why you'd ask such a question.

If you want security, you're going to want a steel door with a steel frame. Any "custom" feature you could possibly add would just a hole for a crook to reach though, wouldn't it? What else is there to customize?

You can buy outswing steel door with steel frames too. the advantages and disadvantages of outswing I guess are obvious.

 

[CGarage]

I have no clue why you'd ask such a question.

My post was straightforward and easy to understand.

What part are you having trouble comprehending?

 

[CraigStu]

I don't really remember the details but maybe 1.5 yrs ago I priced a special order steel door w/ steel frame for our front entrance door. It was a standard 6 panel look door and was right at $2000.

 

[Fav Onefour]

Easiest answer, use a simple fire rated entry door without glass.
There are many ways to break into a house. The garage just gives the illusion of more time before the thief is noticed.

@CGarage , It looks like you may have some insight into European doors.
You could always advise one of those to your friend. $5-10k in a door would give them a lot of security at that opening. Those triple cam latch systems are hard to kick open.

 

[jkuro]

The door slab is the easy part. Any solid core door will work. What you need to reinforce is the hinges, door jam and latch assembly.

 

[The Cobbler]

The door slab is the easy part. Any solid core door will work. What you need to reinforce is the hinges, door jam and latch assembly.

and the lock as anyone can get thru a basic lock in seconds

 

[Rusted Nut]

Most any decent quality solid core door with wood jambs will provide good security, if it’s installed properly. Secure all hinges and both jambs with 3” screws going into double 2x studs. Use fours rows of two screws each on strike side. Use two long throw dead bolts, installed @ 1/3 and 2/3’s height. Install a piece of 1/8” steel to strike side studs, with holes for dead bolt latch. This will slow most perps down considerably.

 

[CGarage]

I was seeing if there was an off the shelf option available in the U.S. that was better quality / durability than what Home Depot / Lowe’s sold. The Home Depot / Lowe’s doors seem to be state specific, and built to the code requirements of the State that they are sold in, which surprised me to no end.

There are custom door manufacturers but then the delivery times can be quite far out and the installers see the home and neighborhood and inflate the prices.

 

[PCustoms]

I was seeing if there was an off the shelf option available in the U.S. that was better quality / durability than what Home Depot / Lowe’s sold. The Home Depot / Lowe’s doors seem to be state specific, and built to the code requirements of the State that they are sold in, which surprised me to no end.

There are custom door manufacturers but then the delivery times can be quite far out and the installers see the home and neighborhood and inflate the prices.

You still have stated what the quality concern with a "standard" door is, but several of us have explained that the entire installation (starting with framing) needs to be correct for a "security" door.

 

[CGarage]

What Home Depot / Lowe’s sold seemed to be a very thin gauge steel covering a solid core, just suitable enough to meet the code requirements mandated by the State. He and I recently went to look and it was my opinion that the doors felt flimsy. Maybe I was expecting more out of what HD / Lowe’s offers in the US.

 

[billconner]

It's like 2-3+ x the size of an average house.
House I grew up in was around 1100 sq ft.. I guess 2x that if you count the cellar, but it was mostly firewood storage, wood furnace, oil furnace, etc.

I mean I work in a warehouse which was originally an aircraft hangar and it's "only" about 2x that.

I believe you'll find the average house size in US is over 2000 sf. The average new house in the last 10 years is near 2500 sf. All while the normal number of occupants of those houses has decreased.

 

[Packard V8]

It looks like you may have some insight into European doors.
You could always advise one of those to your friend. $5-10k in a door would give them a lot of security at that opening. Those triple cam latch systems are hard to kick open.

For true. I've seen European doors into a downtown Paris apartment which could be used as a bank vault. They spend much more on security in homes and parking garages than we do.

jack vines

 

[loganb]

What Home Depot / Lowe’s sold seemed to be a very thin gauge steel covering a solid core, just suitable enough to meet the code requirements mandated by the State. He and I recently went to look and it was my opinion that the doors felt flimsy. Maybe I was expecting more out of what HD / Lowe’s offers in the US.

Even that flimsy panel as you describe it, the panel is not the weak point. It's the hinges, locks and attachment to surrounding framing. The big box stores cater to the 80% of buyers...this is not what you're looking for. Get out of the big box stores and get into a speciality door shop or repurpose a commercial 60 or 90 minute fire rated solid door slab

 

[nadogail]

Big box store security doors are, IMHO, built to a price rather than to a quality. The door on my house was built by a fabricator who specialized in custom doors for people who are willing to spend money for security.
The door is a two man lift and the hinges are fitted with Zerks. I grease them annually.
When I am called upon to open a locked security door it usually takes me only a few minutes with a pair of pry bars to spring the door open without leaving any scratches.

 

[bluedog225]

Here, the armor whatever security doors from Home Depot are OK. Though they are rather thin. And filled with cardboard instead of being solid core. Having said that, one of their steel doors with a steel frame and some quality locks from security snobs would be a pretty good solution. Put a glass break sensor on the inside of the door so when they start working on it, it’ll go off every 10 seconds. It’s annoying as hell.

And you could drill 1/2 inch holes along the vertical and pound in some number for rebar every foot or so. Cap it off with a nice half-inch plastic cap.

Big carriage bolts through the steel frame into whatever framing surrounds the door. Make sure the hole is big enough to sink in the square part of the carriage bolt.

 

[Hank11]

What Home Depot / Lowe’s sold seemed to be a very thin gauge steel covering a solid core, just suitable enough to meet the code requirements mandated by the State. He and I recently went to look and it was my opinion that the doors felt flimsy. Maybe I was expecting more out of what HD / Lowe’s offers in the US.

Now you know better. Most of what the big box stores sells is just good enough. You are asking for better than just good enough, but really a decent commercial steel door with frame --- properly installed--- is about as good as you will get for the money.

If you are a somewhat talented and slightly experienced wood worker you could make a wooden door that would be pretty amazing. Probably have about $1K in it and a lot of time. I just made a set of French doors from laminated hickory with whiter oak jams. Heavy, stout, unbreakable doors with big stainless hinges. 92' talI and 3" thick, can barely pick up one panel of them. They will be full glass so not security doors but if a 3/4 plywood panel was substituted for the glass they would be hard to breach.

Otherwise, reach for your wallet. You can't get a nice door for cheap.

 

[WildBill]

Its usually easer and faster to just to punch through the wall next to the door and reach in and unlock it, especially in chitty McMansions. Or kick a big enough hole to crawl through. Nobody is going through any kind of steel door, they are going around it to the weak hinges, lock area, door frame, or soft sheetrock wall. Or just picking the lock in about 10 seconds with a $19 locksmith gun. I can open the deadbolt on my garage or house in 2-3 seconds with mine.

If they just want a stronger steel door because they want one, that's cool, its their money. But if they are actually worried about security there are a bunch of more effective things to look at first.

 

[Jsf721]

During my last renovation we reinforced the jam with hard wood. The door is a HD hard wood. And the hinge screws were replaced with SS 4” into the new wood frame on all sides. Did this to all entry doors. Problem is the windows are an easy Acess. And we have looked into films but not done anything yet.

 

[CraigStu]

Its usually easer and faster to just to punch through the wall next to the door and reach in and unlock it, especially in chitty McMansions. Or kick a big enough hole to crawl through. Nobody is going through any kind of steel door, they are going around it to the weak hinges, lock area, door frame, or soft sheetrock wall.....

Dang you had to type that didn't you? My kitchen garage door has unfinished drywall on the garage side. Inside to the left ar base and wall cabinets maybe 10" away so a bit of protection there. But the other side is just 8ft of drywall. So drywall, insulation, drywall. Too dang easy to kick through. I could be through between 2 studs in 30 seconds. Dang it, dang it, now I need to do more thinking. I see some winter work hardening once it's too cold to mess around outside.

 

[WildBill]

Dang you had to type that didn't you? My kitchen garage door has unfinished drywall on the garage side. Inside to the left ar base and wall cabinets maybe 10" away so a bit of protection there. But the other side is just 8ft of drywall. So drywall, insulation, drywall. Too dang easy to kick through. I could be through between 2 studs in 30 seconds. Dang it, dang it, now I need to do more thinking. I see some winter work hardening once it's too cold to mess around outside.

Sorry, I have had to get into a lot of locked places doing repairs on bank repo and eviction situations. Its generally super easy, people really worry about the wrong stuff. Best lock in the world on a cardboard door, big steel door next to one layer of 1/2" sheetrock, great door and lock next to an old window you can pop open with a butter knife, etc. Or just pop the locks in seconds with an amazon locksmith gun. Worst case spend 45 seconds manually picking the lock. Automated lights and visible cameras are probably better than anything else you can do for security.

Ironically I don't lock anything, haven't seen my house keys for at least 15 years, and leave the keys in my cars. Worse thing that has happened in 25 years living here is once some kid took the whole bowl of Halloween candy I left on my porch. But he did leave the bowl in my yard, so technically he was just helping himself like my sign said to do.

 

[loganb]

Its generally super easy, people really worry about the wrong stuff. Best lock in the world on a cardboard door, big steel door next to one layer of 1/2" sheetrock, great door and lock next to an old window you can pop open with a butter knife, etc.

My day job is basically technical support/technical sales for a building materials manufacturer. The number of conversations I have with sales people looking for solutions to customer (generally large single family or multifamily builders/GC's) objections in the guise of "security" and "peace of mind" is mind boggling annoying. Especially single family new "volume builders" are building with "code minimum" construction which in many parts of the country means 1/2" exterior foam board (no osb/plywood sheathing) covered up with your cheapest vinyl siding and 1/2" drywall on the interior. Yes...they may have OSB in the corners where shear strength is required...but the bulk of the wall is vinyl side/foam/insulation/drywall. Knock a hole thru that with a landscape or fire pit paver out of the backyard in no time

I get that code minimum construction keeps prices lower so not trying to derail this thread into that, but security is a weakest link scenario. Over protect/strengthen one element and they'll just move to some adjacent element which is easier to defeat. End of the day, the best deterrence is an exterior that gives off "The neighbors house is an easier target" vibe and get them to move down the road to become someone else's problem

 

[CGarage]

My day job is basically technical support/technical sales for a building materials manufacturer. The number of conversations I have with sales people looking for solutions to customer (generally large single family or multifamily builders/GC's) objections in the guise of "security" and "peace of mind" is mind boggling annoying. Especially single family new "volume builders" are building with "code minimum" construction which in many parts of the country means 1/2" exterior foam board (no osb/plywood sheathing) covered up with your cheapest vinyl siding and 1/2" drywall on the interior. Yes...they may have OSB in the corners where shear strength is required...but the bulk of the wall is vinyl side/foam/insulation/drywall. Knock a hole thru that with a landscape or fire pit paver out of the backyard in no time

I get that code minimum construction keeps prices lower so not trying to derail this thread into that, but security is a weakest link scenario. Over protect/strengthen one element and they'll just move to some adjacent element which is easier to defeat. End of the day, the best deterrence is an exterior that gives off "The neighbors house is an easier target" vibe and get them to move down the road to become someone else's problem

I very much agree.

 

[CraigStu]

Thinking about at least making things more difficult at my front door. Then move on to the other doors. I can surely get a better metal door and use 3-4" screws etc. The door is in a 10ft wide bumpout of the front house wall that projects maybe 15". I am thinking it might be worthwhile to pull the drywall off inside the bumpout, add in several studs glued and screwed to the existing studs that the hinges and jam fasten to so 4" screws are fully in studs. Then replace the drywall w/ 1/2 or 3/4" high quality plywood. The outside is builder vinyl siding and , I assume osb, so I think easier to reinforce from inside. How much better is a steel door w/ steel frame vs steel door w/ wood frame? Any other thoughts?

 

[Metal-Marc]

... people looking for solutions to customer (generally large single family or multifamily builders/GC's) objections in the guise of "security" and "peace of mind" is mind boggling annoying. Especially single family new "volume builders" are building with "code minimum" construction which in many parts of the country means 1/2" exterior foam board (no osb/plywood sheathing) covered up with your cheapest vinyl siding and 1/2" drywall on the interior. Yes...they may have OSB in the corners where shear strength is required...but the bulk of the wall is vinyl side/foam/insulation/drywall. Knock a hole thru that with a landscape or fire pit paver out of the backyard in no time

Or just throw a rock through a window.