Seeking Advice (or Warnings) RE: this Table Saw . . .

[CaptainMarvel]

Any thoughts, advice - or warnings - about this CRAFTSMAN 10" CONTRACTOR TABLE SAW ??

Been giving some thought to taking advantage of Sears' layaway program as a way to spread out the cost across a couple of months (which will be much easier on my wallet/budget).


Anyway, just thought I'd tap the collective knowledgebase of the community as part of my due diligence "pre-buyers-remorse" research.

 

[Lightfoot]

I don't know anything about the saw, sorry. But i will tell ya (if you can wait) sears runs father's day specials on most power tools and it will likely be cheaper then than now. Seems the father's day special prices are better than any other time of year. I usually buy most of the Christmas presents for my son-in-laws during the father's day sale, if they have what i'm looking for. That does you no good however, if you need it now. Nice lookin saw!

 

[CaptainMarvel]

I don't know anything about the saw, sorry. But i will tell ya that sears runs father's day specials on most power tools and it will likely be cheaper then than now. Seems the father's day special prices are better than any other time of year. I usually buy most of the Christmas presents for my son-in-laws during the father's day sale, if they have what i'm looking for. That does you no good however, if you need it now. Nice lookin saw!

That is EXCELLENT ADVICE, Lightfoot ... THANK YOU !!!





Truth be told, I don't need it right now. WANT maybe ... but don't need.

 

[Pumpman1968]

I don't know if it shows on your end, but, if you belong to the Craftsman Club, members get an extra $50.00 off. I dunno how that works with lay-away.

 

[CaptainMarvel]

I don't know if it shows on your end, but, if you belong to the Craftsman Club, members get an extra $50.00 off. I dunno how that works with lay-away.

Great Minds Think Alike, Pumpman . . . .

Ironically, I JUST sent off an email to Sears asking about that very thing.
i.e. Can I take advantage of the Craftsman Club price with/for the layaway plan.

Of course, I am a proud (and FREE) Member of the Craftsman Club.

 

[zkling]

For that price I would pick up a used older Delta Unisaw or other pro grade 10" cabinet saw. It will probably be the last table saw you ever need and leaps and bounder better than that craftsman. Is that a direct drive saw? Based on the RPM it sounds like it.

 

[CaptainMarvel]

For that price I would pick up a used older Delta Unisaw or other pro grade 10" cabinet saw. It will probably be the last table saw you ever need and leaps and bounder better than that craftsman. Is that a direct drive saw? Based on the RPM it sounds like it.

Here is the Product Description for the Table Saw . . .

A Contractor Grade Craftsman Saw

This Craftsman table saw delivers powerful cuts, a generous work surface and a stable build that delivers smooth cuts. Designed to move fast on job sites yet deliver the same stable, wobble-free cutting of high-end shop machines, this table saw combines sturdy, kick controlled casters with the assured blade stability of a cast iron trunnion system to deliver the best of shop and site.

Built with an adaptable riving knife system, this Craftsman table saw delivers clean cuts, perfect slots and solid dados with only a few quick adjustments, so when you’re switching from panels to trim to cabinet work, you can move at a fast pace and keep the job on time. And powered by a smooth running 1-3/4 horsepower motor, spinning the 10 inch blade at 3,450 rpm, you’ll rip, rabbit and cross cut soft and hardwoods alike easily. A solid addition to job site or wood shop, this contractor-grade table saw was designed for fast, accurate work. So roll it out, plug it in and start making the kind of cuts you can count on for tight miters and clean bevels every time.
Kit Includes: 10 in. blade, blade guard, dust chute, extension rails, miter gauge, rip fence and anti-kickback pawl

- Powered by a potent 1-3/4 HP, 3450 RPM motor

- The Craftsman Table Saw features a heavy-duty, cast-iron table with stamp steel extension and sturdy stamp steel stand

- Dual locking fence adjusts easily for solid cuts

- Blade guard system with anti-kickback pawl is designed with a quick release mechanism for easy removal and replacement

- Riving knife system used on this saw can be set at three different positions for versatility

- Blade tilts to the left from 0 to 45 degrees to permit cutting long bevel rips on wide boards

- Blade supported by a cast iron trunnion system for accuracy and consistent cutting performance

- Heavy-duty dual castor system is easily set with the front and rear foot pedals

- The saw includes storage for all of the accessories

- 10 degree left tilt arbor gives greater flexibility when cutting bevels and miters

- T-square fence with front and rear lock keeps cuts even

- Weight: 265 lbs.

- Some assembly required

 

[zkling]

I read it earlier. It really sounds like they are trying to hide the fact that it is a direct driven saw. I would really look for an older unisaw or the like. If patient you could easily find one for less than that craftsman. If not at least look for a belt driven saw.

 

[CaptainMarvel]

I read it earlier. It really sounds like they are trying to hide the fact that it is a direct driven saw. I would really look for an older unisaw or the like. If patient you could easily find one for less than that craftsman. If not at least look for a belt driven saw.

As someone who will likely never rise above the "DIY/Home Hobbyist" level - though with an eye toward eventually (hopefully) working on some cool/fun ambitious projects, it a belt driven saw as important as it would be to a professional/master craftsman or cabinetmaker?

 

[Stuey]

Right now it's on sale for a hair under $500, which is pretty good.

When I posted about this saw on ToolGuyd (here) it was pointed out that the Ridgid R4512 is extremely similar, but with $529 starting price. The fence is different, but that looks to be about it.

 

[duneslider]

How much will you really be using this saw? Belt drive is nice and certainly a better way to go but if you don't really need it then who cares.

I have been using a very similar saw for years now and find it completely adequate. I had a bigger saw and got rid of it because I just needed something that fit in the garage better.

I can do everything I used to be able to do but sometimes not quite as fast. If you are the guy who is using the table saw every day making lots of cuts go with a bigger saw.

 

[CaptainMarvel]

I can do everything I used to be able to do but sometimes not quite as fast. If you are the guy who is using the table saw every day making lots of cuts go with a bigger saw.

Yah, no ... I am definitely in the "Weekend Workshop" category.

 

[Outlawmws]

Honestly I'd hit up CL for a used vintage T Saw at a fraction of the cost, and probably a better saw in the long run...

 

[zkling]

I have always been of the "cry once" mentality. Now I am also extremely cheap and appreciate good quality so used is usually my best route.

It is your hobby, but I just think you will be limiting yourself if you want to expand your capabilities. Especially for the money.

Sadly table saws today fall into 3 different categories. <$200 = portable lightweight screamer. Vibrates and is OK for occasional use, or needs to be portable, so good for mobile contractors. The $300-$700 range has some different options of stationary bench saws up to hybrid saws. A mix of cast iron or aluminum tops, belt and drive drive. Third being the overpriced pro hobby grade saws like the saw stop, newer jets, saw stop and unisaws. Very nice saws, but kinda pricy for the home hobbyist.

Most of the direct drive saws are designed to be thrown away after a rather short service life. They have a cheesy fence and tilt / raise mechanism.

I always stick by two different recommendations when people are looking for a table saw. I have owned 5 saws over the yeas and have decided on keeping two for life.

1.) If person is on a budget and lacks floor space for a full size saw. The OLDER (mid 50's) craftsman bench top saws are really nice units. For the usual $100 bucks they fetch on craigslist they will blow anything new in the sub $400 price range out of the water. Belt driven, cast iron. Some are 8" which shouldn't scare people away. Tuned, they are VERY smooth running saws, mine will pass the nickel test with flying colors.

Most of what a homeowner / hobbyist will be cutting is less than 8/4 in thickness. If you want to upgrade it add a new t square style fence and you will have a mini unisaw. I have one that I keep at my parents house. It is just so handy for the size it takes up. However it is not very portable (~200lbs).

Next step up up would be an older 10" cast iron belt driven saw. Same applies from above, but you will get more horsepower and greater depth of cut as well as a larger table.

2.) For the serious home hobbyist an older delta 10" uni saw would be really hard to outgrow. Commercial saw with all of the bells and whistles. 99.9% of the time with this, you will not be saw limited in your projects.


It's your money and your choice, just want to see you get the best bang for the buck. The difference between a properly tuned belt and direct drive saw is really night and day different. The belt driven saws are much more pleasurable to use.

Check your local craigslist. Table saws are usually abundant and cheap. Lots of folks think they want to get into hobby wood working, buy a saw and then decide it is not for them. Usually the used market is chock full of used table saws in all price, size and style ranges.

 

[454ragtop]

Honestly I'd hit up CL for a used vintage T Saw at a fraction of the cost, and probably a better saw in the long run...

X2 CL is loaded with them. Instead of layaway, you could be cutting today.

 

[vlpronj]

Not to give you even more choices, but I am definitely a hobbyist/DIYer as opposed to a heavy user, and I've found a portable table saw to be very handy. I bought a Bosch at Lowes, and love it. I didn't have a lot of clear area in my garage when I got it, so I would just roll it out into the driveway. It folds up, and I store it in a yard shed. I've even used it in the yard, when I was working on shelves for the shed.

I don't think Lowe's has Layaway, but they do have a Credit option.

FWIW, the saw I linked to is well-reviewed on the Lowe's site, but I have no idea how it's viewed in the industry. I know I've had no troubles with mine. Also, it's not suited for exceptionally fine work like you would get with a full table platform. And no, it doesn't use a belt.

 

[CaptainMarvel]

Instead of layaway, you could be cutting today.

you're a poet, and you didn't know it

 

[Mandres]

Yes, that Craftsman is belt driven. It's not a bad saw, but the Ridgid 45xx is a better value, particularly if you can convince Home Depot to take the Harbor Freight 20%-off coupon. They're probably made in the same factory, but the Ridgid has a lifetime warranty and (I think?) cast iron wings instead of stamped steel.

For most home hobbyists these hybrid saws are all you'll ever need. They offer most of the advantages of an industrial saw (cabinet-mounted trunions, enclosed base for dust collection, cast iron tables, belt-drive induction motor, etc.) but they're down on power compared to the big cabinet saws. They also typically run on 110v, which is a plus for some folks.

-edit- Check out the 3 sticky posts on this forum for some great info about table saws: http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/

 

[svronthmve]

I'm a professional contractor. I currently have a Bosch but have owned a Rigid & Craftsman in the past.

If you're planning on spending +/- $500, I'd definitely stay away from that craftsman and buy the Bosch or Rigid portables. Way better saw for the same $$$.

However, I also agree if you're just a weekender, save the bucks and buy an older one on CL for less than a couple hundred bucks. You'll have something better for a lot less money.

 

[mossyboy6]

Buy an old delta contractor saw on craigslist.

Either that or a used unisaw.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Another "shop CL" recommendation. Look for a 10-20 year old 10", belt drive Craftsman with cast iron table and cast iron extensions.

If you want to spend money on something new, get a Biesemeyer fence. That will make a BIG hole in your pocket !

 

[woody 73]

The very heart and sole of a good saw is the fence, no matter what you buy look for a good one; but keep in mind they can be very expensive for a top notch brand.

The saw that you posted is just ok like the others have said look at CL for a used older craftsman, delta, powermatic,oliver etc.

 

[RCStocker]

For that money you can buy a good Delta or Jet contractors saw that is a thousand times better. I have had a full cabinet shop for 45 years. I have had Craftsman power tools and machines. They all ****. 30 years ago they made a good table saw that cost $200. I bought it in Indiana took it to california and sold it for what I paid for it. It was a really good saw for the money. My Delta and Jet saws are much better.

You can find a Unisaw for $800 to $1200 that is not very old. The cabinet and construction business has been a bust for quite a few years now and woodworking machinery is very, very cheap. It comes up all the time. I have a bunch of Delta bandsaws that I picked up for less than $150. each. There is not as much on the market as there was 3 or 4 years ago but it is still selling cheap if you look.

There really is a huge difference in the quality of saws. Even Gizzly table saws and woodworking machinery is better than sears. I have a few pieces form Grizly and they all run very well. I have 81 pieces of mahinery large and small. I have a full machine shop withy welding and sheet meetal as well as the cabinet shop. I have them on my farm in Indiana and I have a small machine shop with a wood shop here in California. I have one older Delta Contractors saw I take out on the job site. Everthing else is a Unisaw and I have 3 of them. I think the Jet is as good if not better than Delta the past 10 years. Take your pick but don't inclued any machinery form Sears.

 

[Tucko]

Not sure what you're going to use it for. Is it for everyday contractor use, or seldom used homeowner. That being said, I'm not far from you, up in Whittier. I've got an older Craftsman table saw for sale (1970's) if you're interested.

 

[Dimitri]

Any thoughts, advice - or warnings - about this

Not about that saw looks okay, but I'm sure you know basic safety like not standing between the blade and the guide due to material wanting to kick out.

But coming from a family of full time wood working in lumber, construction and carving, do yourself a favor and never set the blade to more then about 1/16-3/32" higher then the work your cutting.

You'll take off the skin of your hand, but you wont lose a finger like this guy eventually will ...

If your material is too "wobbly" to get it to cut with the blade so little above the material, it's time to extend the saws table, not time to increase the hight of the blade.

Dimitri

 

[jackfork]

For light duty there is really nothing wrong with the Sears saw. But like others if I had to choose one in that price range I would go with the Rigid. I have not had good luck with CM power tools. I would stay with the contractor design and not go with a job site saw, such as the Bosch, as others have recommended unless you need mobility. The Bosch 4100-09 is a fine saw, I know I have one. But it doesn't have a cast iron table, and weighs in at considerably less than half of the Rigid for more money. For me it is a job site saw. I haul it around when and where needed. Other than that I use my cabinet saw. Others have recommended looking on CL for Unisaws or other cabinet saws. Great saws, but at least in my area to get one for the price of the Rigid would require much searching, and then weeks of restore work. That is a good option if you are into that. Also they would be 220 if that is a problem, or even 3-phase. If 220 isn't a problem then I would recommend this saw from Grizzly.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0715P

A couple hundred more in cost but much more saw than the Rigid. Comes wired for 220 but can be rewired for 110 if need be. Warning on Grizzly tools they do not come with a plug. You will have to wire one that fits your outlet.

Here is a review for the Rigid.

There also is this shop tour that has a Rigid saw from the WoodWhisperer site. I highly recommend this site for woodworkers.

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/shop-tours/michaels-basement-workshop/

 

[svronthmve]

Again, the OP stated he would only be using the saw for weekend warrior projects. While the cabinet and unisaws are nice, they are WAY overkill for what is desired.

Let's help get this guy into something that's appropriate to his needs.....

 

[dumper]

as a fellow weekend warrior, and past owner of several table saws (Delta, Craftsman, etc), there is no reason, at all, to spend $500 on a table saw these days. You can buy a used $500 saw on CL for maybe $140-200, many times from guys who thought they needed a $500 saw, but never used it. Unless you are opening a cabinet shop, the bigest problem with any table saw is it takes up lots of room, and always seems to be in the way. I am currently using a Craftsman portable saw, mounted on a wheeled cart above my miter saw. Great setup- easy to use and easy to move out of the way. Paid $75 for it on CL.

 

[Desertskyy]

Another "shop CL" recommendation. Look for a 10-20 year old 10", belt drive Craftsman with cast iron table and cast iron extensions.

I went this route a few years ago. Paid $90.00 for a Craftsman cast iron 10in saw that was just sitting in some guys garage but had only been used once or twice. The saw I have is in great shape and still performs with no issues. I plan on keeping it for many years.

Good luck on your decision

 

[zkling]

Again, the OP stated he would only be using the saw for weekend warrior projects. While the cabinet and unisaws are nice, they are WAY overkill for what is desired.

Let's help get this guy into something that's appropriate to his needs.....

My point wasn't that he needs the cabinet saw, but for the money he could do much better in the used market. Who wouldn't benefit from a better tool for the money? I just hate to seem him limit himself.

A table saw is like a welder and lathe. If you buy one larger than you need, eventually you will use the capacity and be grateful that you did.

OP I would really recommend that you browse CL for an older 8 or 10" craftsman (emerson) made saw for ~$100. Upgrade the fence if you really want to. Even if you decide that wood working isin't for you. You will beable to get all of your investment back. As soon as that new craftsman leaves the store you are looking at a huge loss in resale value.

 

[CaptainMarvel]

What do you think about this one I just saw on CL ?? ... http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/3707965669.html

 

[gte718p]

If its close to you its hard to go wrong for $60. I would wager it will go 95% of what you would want to do now. With a custom table and a little work it would probably to anything a DIY type would ever want to do. It will not do it as fast and cleanly as the uni-saw and it will wear out, but you don't have a huge investment in it.

 

[zkling]

What do you think about this one I just saw on CL ?? ... http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/3707965669.html

Just no, that's one of their bench top screamers. Aluminum table, loud motor. Looks like it is also missing its miter gauge. For $60 you can do better.

I would much prefer something like this, even though it is missing the cast iron wings.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/3691470459.html

This looks really good, has both CI wings which is hard to find

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/tls/3652111332.html

Try putting out a WTB old craftsman table saw on CL. I bet you will have a bunch to pick from at great prices. Lots of folks have them sitting around and think they are junk because of their age.

 

[CaptainMarvel]

I guess the things that are/were appealing to me about the current Sears/Craftsman contractor table saw (linked in my original post) was not only the (seemingly) solid construction of the saw, table top, fence, etc. (from when I've checked it out at my local Sears store), but the ability/option to spread out the payments via Sears' layaway program .... making it more affordable (for me and my personal financial situation) than allocating even $250-$399 for a new or used benchtop or portable saw -such as the Porter Cable 15-Amp 10" Portable/Benchtop Table Saw I've also been eye'ing (and frequently visiting) at my local Lowe's.


FYI ... I haven't used credit cards in over 10 years - I spend what I save/am able to.


I mean, as a non-professional/non-contractor - and having no intention or aspirations of ever elevating my "weekend workshop" DIY'er status above/beyond a home-hobby level, I suppose I could always consider options such as the . . .

Skil 15-Amp 10" Table Saw

or even the . . .

Harbor Freight 13-Amp 10" "Industrial" Table Saw



TO FURTHER CLARIFY - with regard to the workspace issue . . .
My intentions/vision is to build the table saw into a cabinet/bench - very similar to something like these . . .

Again - speaking purely as a non-professional/non-contractor - and having no intention or aspirations of ever elevating my "weekend workshop" DIY'er status above/beyond a home-hobby level - I just wanted to further clarify my own personal thought process with/for this topic . . . .

. . . . not to discount ANY of the fantastic insight and advice many of you have provided for me thus far - which I most sincerely appreciate.

 

[jackfork]

It comes down to you get what you can afford, and how you want to pay for it. However, I wouldn't take a Skil or HF table saw if you gave them to me new in the box. Also if your idea is to build an island like in the pictures you posted then you wouldn't be happy with one either. If you do buy such a saw the first and best thing you could do is throw the stock blade away and buy a decent one. That includes the CM saw you mentioned.

Another thought would be to buy a track saw like the new Grizzly and later a miter saw for rips. You would be able to do much more with them than what you have mentioned. Cutting panels on those little table saws is not easy, getting accurate cuts without tons of experience next to impossible, and looking at your pictures that is what you intend to do with it.

 

[CaptainMarvel]

Another thought would be to buy a track saw like the new Grizzly and later a miter saw for rips. You would be able to do much more with them than what you have mentioned. Cutting panels on those little table saws is not easy, getting accurate cuts without tons of experience next to impossible, and looking at your pictures that is what you intend to do with it.

I actually already have a 12" dual-bevel sliding compound miter saw - which I love.
However, it can only rip so far - I think about 12".

 

[jackfork]

I actually already have a 12" dual-bevel sliding compound miter saw - which I love.
However, it can only rip so far - I think about 12".

There you go a track saw will get you better and easier cuts then almost any table saw you or I could afford and won't take up any room at all. All for less money than the CM table saw. Actually you would do crosscuts with the miter saw and panels and rips with the track saw. There are several kinds out there. The Grizzly is new and I mentioned it because it is the cheapest that I know of. The Festool is considered the best but, at about 3x the money for the Grizzly. There are a lot of options out there. It is obvious that you have put some thought into what you want. But what I have presented in this and other posts are just some more things to look at. For me I started as a weekend DIYer as well. I quickly grew out of my earlier tool buys and regretted getting them, but then that's me.

 

[mbatarga]

^ +1
CL would be my suggested option.

 

[djjsr]

I've had this saw for a couple of years. I think it's the one in your original post.

The GOOD - It's a good saw for the money. Belt driven, pretty good power and I would NOT call it light duty. It'll rip a 2x with no problem. One thing I really like is that the fence moves out to 32" to the right. It takes a little time to assemble and square up but take your time, pay attention to details and the results will be good. This thing is heavy and I would not call it portable at all. It has retractable wheels so you can roll it around easily but your not going to easily be moving it every day to different job sites.

The NOT SO GOOD - The adjustments to keep the fence square. I've had to mess with them a few times. I'm thinking maybe some blue Loctite on the screws may fix it. Also, the blade it comes with isn't very good.

 

[CaptainMarvel]

I've had this saw for a couple of years. I think it's the one in your original post.

This thing is heavy and I would not call it portable at all. It has retractable wheels so you can roll it around easily but your not going to easily be moving it every day to different job sites.

Yep, that's the one I was referring to.

If I were to ultimately decide to purchase this saw, it would have it's permanent home in my garage workshop - no outside job sites to move it to.

The NOT SO GOOD - The adjustments to keep the fence square. I've had to mess with them a few times. I'm thinking maybe some blue Loctite on the screws may fix it. Also, the blade it comes with isn't very good.

Replacing factory blades with better/quality blades is a "usual and customary" with me.