"Seer numbers for dummies"

[supratreo]

So i'm looking for a single room 18k mini split and see that there is a pretty significant price difference between units with higher/lower seer units.

For example, an LG 22k 17 SEER2 is $1600 vs a LG 18k 24 SEER2 for $2800.
I understand that the 18k would be more efficient but is it really worth an extra $1200? the 24k isn't even energy star rated while the other is.
This unit will be a supplement to central HVAC for a sun room that we have temp issues with.

Also, R-32 vs R-410, any opinions?
any advice at all would be greatly appreciated.

 

[danski0224]

SEER ratings for traditional split systems are influenced by evaporator coil size and blower size.

There may be a physical size difference between those two configurations.

 

[supratreo]

SEER ratings for traditional split systems are influenced by evaporator coil size and blower size.

There may be a physical size difference between those two configurations.

thank you, i'll take a look at that but i also don't have much of a limitation on how large or small either is.

 

[WildBill]

According to the interwebs you would save 5-10% by going with the 18 seer. There are many that are in the 20s though, you might look around a little as it seems you could find a higher seer 18k for less than $2,800.

 

[pcmeiners]

Seer is very useful in primarily warm to hot regions. If you are in a region where heating costs are a major concern then HSPF numbers are the more important one.

Below are some tools which you should use to understand the running cost factors of SEER and HSPF.......

SEER Energy Savings Calculator for Air Conditioners

Use our free SEER Energy Savings Calculator to instantly see how much energy you save by upgrading to an air conditioner with a higher SEER / SEER2 rating.

www.seerenergysavings.com

Heating Cost Calculator

Compare electric, propane and oil heating costs to natural gas with our heating cost calculator

www.columbiagaspa.com

Mini Split SEER Savings Calculator (+Operating Cost)

How much can you save with a more efficient mini split ductless heat pump? Will choosing a higher efficiency be worth the extra money? This calculator gives you clear, accurate results about costs and savings. Note for calculator: This calculator is based on EIA Residential Electric Rate...

www.pickhvac.com

How Much Does It Cost To Run a Gas Fireplace (With Calculator)

Is it expensive to run a gas fireplace? That’s a common question. The answer depends on the gas fireplace BTU capacity and whether you run it for ambiance a few hours per day or use it to heat the area – and run it many more hours per day. Our Gas Furnace Running Cost Calculator ... Read more

www.pickhvac.com

Learning Center

From inspiration to installation, click here to learn more about learning center from our team of experts.

www.ecomfort.com

Up to date national average heating costs......

https://www.maine.gov/energy/sites/maine.gov.energy/files/inline-files/Home-Heating-Calculator.xls

 

[fitter30]

Have u looked into federal energy star rebates or your electric company? If heat is a concern and elk grove doesn't sound like Florida might think about hyper heat unit. All hp lose btu's the colder the outside air spec at 47° and 17°. Other temps the tech line at the factory can tell u. Minimum outdpoor running temp should be listed.

 

[supratreo]

Thank you for all the info.
I've never hear of hyper heat units until now. it seems like they are for MUCH colder climates if i'm reading right? we don't really get below 40 here and this unit will only supplement the existing central HVAC for this particular room.
while i have you all here, what brands do you recommend? I've only been searching LG, Diakin, Mitsubishi and MrCool and i believe these are good, reliable brands. I do see Bluefin come up on GJ a bit but that's a brand I haven't heard of but is lower priced compared to the brands I listed.

 

[PoorUB]

Up to date national average heating costs......

Average means nothing! Get the real numbers for the area. Right now I pay $0.35 a therm for HG and $0.11 for electricity. With those numbers a heat pump costs me about 3x the price as NG in a 90+ furnace. 80% is not very far behind.

 

[mm08822]

Average means nothing! Get the real numbers for the area. Right now I pay $0.35 a therm for HG and $0.11 for electricity. With those numbers a heat pump costs me about 3x the price as NG in a 90+ furnace. 80% is not very far behind.

That's the purpose of the spreadsheet......enter your own available pricing for each fuel source considered. Those not considered/available/practical - just delete!

 

[pcmeiners]

Average means nothing!

Please tell how the average reader can quickly compare relative fuel costs without spending a good deal of time in the process, bless us with your superior knowledge. As mmo822 notes an individual needs to use his own utility variables in the spreadsheet. If they are not willing to do so that is their choice. Lastly at least I expend time to backup what I write in posts with links, something which is lacking around here

 

[mm08822]

Easiest way to get the costs for energy is to use your electric bill, NG and/or LP gas bill, Fuel oil bill and plug in the per unit costs. Just make sure you check for seasonal pricing variations and compensate $ as required.

For those into the wood fuel sources, consider your available time against your available funds.

 

[PoorUB]

Please tell what how the average reader can quickly compare relative fuel costs without spending a good deal of time in the process, bless us with your superior knowledge. As mmo822 notes an individual needs to use his own utility variables in the spreadsheet. If they are not willing to do so that is their choice. Lastly at least I expend time to backup what I write in posts with links, something which is lacking around here

My point is the information is fairly useless. Your spreadsheet picture shows a heat pump being fairly competitive, in my area it is far from competitive, so why bother?

It is like comparing car insurance. Age, location, and credit score play into it, as well as other points. What I pay has pretty much nothing to do what you pay.

There is no easy way to quickly compare energy costs. You need to know why the person pays for utilities.

 

[mm08822]

Seer is very useful in primarily warm to hot regions. If you are in a region where heating costs are a major concern then HSPF numbers are the more important one.

Below are some tools which you should use to understand the running cost factors of SEER and HSPF.......

SEER Energy Savings Calculator for Air Conditioners

Use our free SEER Energy Savings Calculator to instantly see how much energy you save by upgrading to an air conditioner with a higher SEER / SEER2 rating.

www.seerenergysavings.com

Heating Cost Calculator

Compare electric, propane and oil heating costs to natural gas with our heating cost calculator

www.columbiagaspa.com

Mini Split SEER Savings Calculator (+Operating Cost)

How much can you save with a more efficient mini split ductless heat pump? Will choosing a higher efficiency be worth the extra money? This calculator gives you clear, accurate results about costs and savings. Note for calculator: This calculator is based on EIA Residential Electric Rate...

www.pickhvac.com

How Much Does It Cost To Run a Gas Fireplace (With Calculator)

Is it expensive to run a gas fireplace? That’s a common question. The answer depends on the gas fireplace BTU capacity and whether you run it for ambiance a few hours per day or use it to heat the area – and run it many more hours per day. Our Gas Furnace Running Cost Calculator ... Read more

www.pickhvac.com

Learning Center

From inspiration to installation, click here to learn more about learning center from our team of experts.

www.ecomfort.com

Up to date national average heating costs......

Any link for the spreadsheet? (Sorry if I missed it.)

 

[pcmeiners]

I have posted the spreadsheet several times with the link in this sub forum, forgot this time, sorry. It is several years old but with updated fuel cost data, it is pertinent except for a few individuals who do not understand the need for averaged variables. The spreadsheet is an automatic download which needs updating .....

https://www.maine.gov/energy/sites/maine.gov.energy/files/inline-files/Home-Heating-Calculator.xls

 

[PoorUB]

it is pertinent except for a few individuals who do not understand the need for averaged variables.

Aim it at me without saying so!

What do average variables do to help in a specific situation? Seriously, I fail to understand what the average for nation has to do with heating costs at my house! Help me understand!

When someone in New Jersey is trying to decide on a heat pump versus a gas furnace, what the average pays is meaningless, unless you can convince me otherwise.

 

[danski0224]

That spreadsheet takes *gasp* effort to use.

You plug in the numbers for your location.

There is no easy way to do it.

Also bear in mind that energy prices fluctuate.

When I installed my heat pump, natural gas was $2 a therm... and now it is waaaay cheaper. At $2 a therm, it made sense to use the heat pump as much as possible while now it is pretty much off (economic balance point is something like 60 degrees).

The same equipment can be in place as energy costs fluctuate wildly. Installing a heat pump when the equipment is being replaced really shouldn't be a huge extra cost, and then it is there if/when it is needed. It makes absolutely NO sense to rip out a functioning air conditioner to install a heat pump to "save money" on natural gas bills.

And then there is the problem of telling the homeowner that their electric and fuel costs need to be monitored and updated in order to know if it is less or more $$$ to use a certain heating method. It is NOT set it and forget it.

At this point, I pretty much always recommend an inverter condenser, which is usually a heat pump too.

 

[pcmeiners]

"That spreadsheet takes *gasp* effort to use."

Come on Dan, you download the spreadsheet, find out your own utility costs, and fill them in, it not difficult. Yes when AI takes over our lives it will automatically update and fill in the numbers for us, until then it requires a bit of effort.

As to different fuel rates for different users, again the average users will have lower costs with an efficient minisplit then with other fuels, albeit some users are extremely lucky with very low fuel cost, cheaper than running an efficient minisplit, but that is for a lucky few.
As far as natural gas, it is reasonably close in cost to running a heat pump in most areas, if I had natural gas at my town's gas rates I would not switch to heat pumps.

 

[danski0224]

I'm ok with the effort.

Missed the sarcasm.

 

[pcmeiners]

Have to admit it is not the easiest to figure your energy costs with fluctuations in seasonal costs, rate hikes, increasing taxes and added surcharges....... every month or so.