Because I went for one and the guy said everything is aligned except for this one wheel which is off a little. He said I could drive on it but I'll wear my tires faster. Maybe I could just throw on some washers and get it closer if thats the right direction. Saw some guy on a video do a wheel alignment with a rope and a ruler and some slip mat under the tire.
Seized tie rod bolt
- Thread starter norakat
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John Young
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Vehicle Year, Make, Model?
nadogail
Well-known member
Sometimes I admit that I have my limitations and take jobs to a Professional.
Just curious, do you ever read the thread before commenting?
This thread started at the professional
nadogail
Well-known member
I have been following this thread since day one.
Bad Eye Bill
Well-known member
Well, I gotta say, it couldn't have been much of a professional.
It’s on there.. I was literally hitting the wrench with a 8 lb hammer.
I can’t think of anything but permanent loctite. I bought a Dremel. Ready to cut it off. Gonna give one more go before that when I have time.
2016 Lexus ES350
John Young
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FIRST: There is really no such thing as "permanent" thread locker (AKA Loctite). Basically, there are "medium-strength" (Blue) and "high-strength" (Red) thread lockers. Blue is intended to be replaceable with common hand tools. Red is sometimes called "permanent", but that only means that it usually requires heat to be applied first to weaken the bond before tools can be used to loosen. Let's assume you've used heat as well as penetrating oil.
I realize that your goal is to get that jamb nut loose so that it will then be free to screw IN or OUT so that the alignment shop can then adjust the toe in or toe out accordingly.
But you appear to be trying to loosen this nut by holding the INNER tie rod in place with one wrench while turning the jamb nut with another wrench to loosen. That is not the best way to accomplish this, as you are fighting both the thread locker and the years of corrosion on that threaded portion of the INNER tie rod as well as the bond where the INNER tie rod threads into the OUTER tie rod.
STEP 1: Unscrew the OUTER tie rod from the jamb nut:
Don't attempt to hold that INNER tie rod in place to loosen the jamb nut. Instead, put one wrench on the jam nut and another wrench on the OUTER tie rod. You SHOULD then be able to turn break that bond free and turn the jamb nut independently from the OUTER tie rod. The INNER tie rod should still be frozen to the jamb nut at this point.
Next, assuming the jamb nut (along with the INNER tie rod) will turn independently from the OUTER tie rod, back that jamb nut off a couple of turns from the OUTER tie rod (the INNER tie rod should still turn along with the jamb nut).
Once you have the jamb nut and INNER tie rod backed off a couple of turns from the OUTER tie rod, you're then ready to break that jamb nut free from the INNER tie rod.
Next, assuming the jamb nut (along with the INNER tie rod) will turn independently from the OUTER tie rod, back that jamb nut off a couple of turns from the OUTER tie rod (the INNER tie rod should still turn along with the jamb nut).
Once you have the jamb nut and INNER tie rod backed off a couple of turns from the OUTER tie rod, you're then ready to break that jamb nut free from the INNER tie rod.
STEP 2: Unscrew the jamb nut from the INNER tie rod:
For this step, you'll now put one wrench on the hex portion of the INNER tie rod and another wrench on the jamb nut. But now you're going to be turning these in the OPPOSITE direction from what you been doing so far. That jam nut should "unscrew" a bit from that INNER tie rod pretty easily now, since you're not fighting all the other variables.
Once you get that jam nut to move a bit on the threads of the INNER tie rod you can work it back and forth to chase the threads, applying penetrating oil as needed, until you've got that jamb nut moving freely enough to drop the car back off at the alignment shop (though I'd be leery of any alignment shop that can't break these components free in order to adjust toe).
duneslider
Well-known member
Now, I am all for people doing whatever they want but in all reality with how much time has now been spent on this rod end and what does a new one cost $40-50 bucks? Seems like you could have just replaced it and had it aligned and be worrying about something else by now.
I think that is the point, its debatable whether this was an actual professional doing the job. and or diagnosing
Agreed
John Young
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It's not the outer tie rod end that's the issue here. It's the inner tie rod with the seized jamb nut that the OP is trying to loosen. If the OP can't get that jamb nut to move, then the alignment shop will continue to tell the OP that they can't perform the alignment. Replacing the outer tie rod end won't solve this problem.
The inner tie rod(s) is(are) generally replaced as part of the complete rack and pinion assembly. Cleary beyond the scope of this problem.
If the OP really can't figure out how to get the jamb nut to move on the inner tie rod, then fine. Remove the outer tie rod completely and split / cut that jamb nut off and replace it. Clean up the threads on the inner and then either reinstall the original outer or replace it.
Regardless, it's the inner that's the issue.
The inner tie rod(s) is(are) generally replaced as part of the complete rack and pinion assembly. Cleary beyond the scope of this problem.
If the OP really can't figure out how to get the jamb nut to move on the inner tie rod, then fine. Remove the outer tie rod completely and split / cut that jamb nut off and replace it. Clean up the threads on the inner and then either reinstall the original outer or replace it.
Regardless, it's the inner that's the issue.
Wrench97
Well-known member
Since when?
I change inners a couple times a week on all different makes/models.
John Young
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You're not the OP.
Wrench97
Well-known member
Point is the rack is not generally replaced because the inner tie rod is bad, I also can not recall ever not being able to get the nut loose with some heat.
John Young
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You're right and I would never replace the whole rack myself either.
But I also can't imagine being unable to get the jamb nut loose. For that reason, this situation makes me think that replacing the inner may be a bridge too far for the OP. Maybe not.
I've suggested how to get that nut off that doesn't require much more than what the OP has already tried. Doesn't seem like I've been much help.
I'll step away now.
But I also can't imagine being unable to get the jamb nut loose. For that reason, this situation makes me think that replacing the inner may be a bridge too far for the OP. Maybe not.
I've suggested how to get that nut off that doesn't require much more than what the OP has already tried. Doesn't seem like I've been much help.
I'll step away now.
whateg01
Well-known member
Pretty sure I've read that eating high fructose induction heaters is bad for you.
whateg01
Well-known member
The alignment guy will always say you will wear your tires out. I've had them tell me that I NEED a four wheel alignment on my solid rear axle f150 out else my rear tires will wear out quickly. If there's an alignment issue, you will, in fact have more tire wear than if there is no alignment issue. But if the alignment is off by 0.01 degree, you'll have to replace a tire 250 miles earlier than you would have otherwise.
I don't know where you think you're going to add washers, but if that's what you think fixes an alignment, you should not be the one doing the alignment.
That's just propaganda from Big Induction.
nicks78camaro
Well-known member
I've had to heat outer tie rods and/or jam nuts 4 times before it would crack loose. I'm talking fully cherry red all the way around.
They're almost never beyond saving with an oxy-acetylene torch.
I'm in the rust belt (Pittsburgh PA).
They're almost never beyond saving with an oxy-acetylene torch.
I'm in the rust belt (Pittsburgh PA).
nicks78camaro
Well-known member
Inners are mostly replaceable, but I've worked on a few newer vehicles that inners are serviced as a rack assy.
One was a newer Jeep Compass
One was a newer Nissan I believe?
But most of the time inners are replaceable, as long as parts are readily available.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
It's just a matter of the aftermarket catching up. Lots of OEs will say "rack only", and after 3 years the aftermarket makes replacements. PITA if you have 60k on a newer car and it needs a rack because the inners are shot.
Nut is seized to the inner, that's ALWAYS is problem. Breaking them free is rarely an issue, you have a 19mm+ nut to work with. It's when you need to spin that 19mm+ nut relative to some POS 13mm **** quality metal inner that it becomes and issue. 13mm is always loose, 1/2 never fits; it's like they try to make it difficult.
I'd hose the thing down with PB or whatever you like with the inner "un-spun" a thread or two so you can hit both sides of the jam nut. Then retighten it, and if the old tires wore fine, never think of this again.
Carguy99
Well-known member
Air hammer… rattle the end and putting pressure with a wrench. Surprisingly works well.
thanks Andy (rip) for teaching me this and a million other things.
thanks Andy (rip) for teaching me this and a million other things.
Timely instructions to get the stubborn jam nuts loosened. Then everything else was uneventful. ThanksFIRST: There is really no such thing as "permanent" thread locker (AKA Loctite). Basically, there are "medium-strength" (Blue) and "high-strength" (Red) thread lockers. Blue is intended to be replaceable with common hand tools. Red is sometimes called "permanent", but that only means that it usually requires heat to be applied first to weaken the bond before tools can be used to loosen. Let's assume you've used heat as well as penetrating oil.
I realize that your goal is to get that jamb nut loose so that it will then be free to screw IN or OUT so that the alignment shop can then adjust the toe in or toe out accordingly.
But you appear to be trying to loosen this nut by holding the INNER tie rod in place with one wrench while turning the jamb nut with another wrench to loosen. That is not the best way to accomplish this, as you are fighting both the thread locker and the years of corrosion on that threaded portion of the INNER tie rod as well as the bond where the INNER tie rod threads into the OUTER tie rod.
STEP 1: Unscrew the OUTER tie rod from the jamb nut:
Don't attempt to hold that INNER tie rod in place to loosen the jamb nut. Instead, put one wrench on the jam nut and another wrench on the OUTER tie rod. You SHOULD then be able to turn break that bond free and turn the jamb nut independently from the OUTER tie rod. The INNER tie rod should still be frozen to the jamb nut at this point.
Next, assuming the jamb nut (along with the INNER tie rod) will turn independently from the OUTER tie rod, back that jamb nut off a couple of turns from the OUTER tie rod (the INNER tie rod should still turn along with the jamb nut).
Once you have the jamb nut and INNER tie rod backed off a couple of turns from the OUTER tie rod, you're then ready to break that jamb nut free from the INNER tie rod.
STEP 2: Unscrew the jamb nut from the INNER tie rod:
For this step, you'll now put one wrench on the hex portion of the INNER tie rod and another wrench on the jamb nut. But now you're going to be turning these in the OPPOSITE direction from what you been doing so far. That jam nut should "unscrew" a bit from that INNER tie rod pretty easily now, since you're not fighting all the other variables.
Once you get that jam nut to move a bit on the threads of the INNER tie rod you can work it back and forth to chase the threads, applying penetrating oil as needed, until you've got that jamb nut moving freely enough to drop the car back off at the alignment shop (though I'd be leery of any alignment shop that can't break these components free in order to adjust toe).
Plastikosmd
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jsaw
Well-known member
I rattle on the jamb nut with a blunt punch bit in the air hammer. I have also used air hammer bits that are ground concave so that they do not slip off the round tie rod end
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Was thinking the same thing. In the very few times in my career in which a customer professed to know better than me, or questioned what I was doing, they got their car back in a hurry.