Selecting a Framer Nailgun

[Gremlin5]

I have been looking for a framing gun for two years for DIY projects. I am in the militany but when I was in high school I used to frame. Keep in mind, being in the military, I have to move around a lot, potentially even outside the US. I.e., please keep in mind that I will live lots of different places, so it's important that even though I will try to buy nails cheap online, ideally I want to use nails, or at least be capable of using nails that are available nationwide at most hardware stores, and suitable for code nationwide.

I am embarrased how little I know.... there's a ton to know just about framing guns.

I am only interested in stick framers, unless I got an incredible deal on a coil framer. I will be trying to buy a used stick framer.

I don't want any wimpy homeowner stuff, I need a big gun, 16ga won't do the trick. 16ga is too small! I'm guessing Metabo/Hitachi would be ideal... I am pretty damn convinced I want wire, unless I get a free or dirt cheap plastic, or god forbid, paper gun.... I heard wire ammo is cheapest, and the wire collation has the smallest gaps, which allegedly means more ammunition capacity than plastic...

I think what I want is .131" ? I heard allegedly technically and pedantically you can call that 'ten gauge', but in practice everyone just says "one-three-one" ? Or is it .113" that I want? I'm embarrased I dont know more, but when I was in high school, we just used whatever the boss gave provided, and I've borrowed my neighbor's framer gun and neglected to ask him details. I think bigger is often better... I have worked extensively with beams and big joists although I frequently drive RSSs with the impact driver... a lot of hobbyists seem to be satisfied with a simple 16ga, but im gusssing this would be inadequate for even 2"x6"s. I also work with rough sawn a lot, so the dimensions are slightly bigger.


I have no idea if I need to worry about shank, or if a normal gun can handle and tolerate any shank. I suspect I can safely ignore shank until i actually have a gun in my hand that I need to source ammo for.

I am under the impression I have to choose full round head or clipped head, and this is a huge choice and I have no idea what I should be looking for or aiming for. Actually, apparently/allegedly the modern advent of 28⁰ and 30⁰ and 34⁰ offset full round head has negated the argument of buying 15⁰ and 21⁰ to stay code compliant? However, it's still important to pay attention to head when actually buying nails, but it's not like it once was, where a high degree gun married the user to clipped heads ??

I'm not sure if I need to be worrying about what length(s) the gun can tolerate... obviously more flexibility is usually a good thing?

Am I forgetting anything?

I assume all wire collated stick guns are 28⁰...? And all 28⁰ guns are wire collated? That keeps it simple. 28⁰ is for me.

I find it really odd... I am currently in New England and it seems as though every used stick framer gun on facebook for sale is always plastic collated, or occasionally paper collated. I never seen a used wire stick framer for sale.... but aren't wire stick framers pretty common on jobsites? Perhaps, just speculating with zero evidence, perhaps people who buy wire guns don't feel the need to dump their gun into the used market very often...? Maybe people who buy plastic collated guns sometimes have buyers remorse? To harken back to what I said earlier, I have ZERO interest in paper collation, unless I get the gun for ten dollars or some ridiculously low amount. I am less ardent in my hate on plastic; I know plastic has its advantages. Nevertheless until someone convinced me otherwise, I think I am 95% aiming for wire for my particular use case and situation, as someone just buying one gun, not looking to buy multiple different guns.

If it's rebuildable, that's a bonus

Thanks!!!

 

[MoonRise]

The 'best' framing nailer is often considered the Hitachi (now Metabo HPT) NR83 or NR90 (newer, lighter, more powerful, can use max 3.5" nails compared to 3.25" max nails for the NR83).

Both are pneumatic 21° nailers, so you'll need a compressor and air hoses.

If you will be using 8d or 10d smaller nails and don't need/want the capability to use 3.5" nails, the NR83 might be preferred. If more power, less weight, the ability to use 3.5" nails, and a noticeably lower cost matter, then the NR90 might be preferred.

Best Nail Gun for Anyone - Pro Tool Reviews https://share.google/2KB3GiJzPrcfBpSnj

21° framing nails are available in different 'flavors' for different needs, plain or ring shank or stainless, etc.

There are also cordless battery powered ones now. No compressor needed, but they are generally heavier than pneumatic tools.

And there are still fuel-cell nailers like Paslode or others. No compressor needed, but a fuel cell is used instead.

Define what you want to build with the nailer, search online for choices and options and reviews, and go from there.

 

[jh87]

I don’t have a lot of experience with many framing nail guns, but I can tell you I bought a Bostitch F21PL fifteen years ago and it’s been great. I’ve framed two houses, multiple garages and sheds, some porches, and many smaller random projects with it and it’s been great. I’ve probably oiled it twice in that time and it just works. Nails are available everywhere in many sizes and materials at good prices too.

 

[Mr onetwo]

I have a Metabo coil framing gun for sale in Maine right now.....it's a great deal.

Metabo HPT NV90AGS 3-1/2 Inch Coil Framing Nailer - tools - by owner - sale - craigslist

Brand new in the box professional coil framing nailer by Metabo HPT (formerly Hitachi). Contractors know these are the best pneumatic framer money can buy. Bought new, but switched over to battery...

maine.craigslist.org

 

[Gremlin5]

The 'best' framing nailer is often considered the Hitachi (now Metabo HPT) NR83 or NR90 (newer, lighter, more powerful, can use max 3.5" nails compared to 3.25" max nails for the NR83).

Both are pneumatic 21° nailers, so you'll need a compressor and air hoses.

If you will be using 8d or 10d smaller nails and don't need/want the capability to use 3.5" nails, the NR83 might be preferred. If more power, less weight, the ability to use 3.5" nails, and a noticeably lower cost matter, then the NR90 might be preferred.

Best Nail Gun for Anyone - Pro Tool Reviews https://share.google/2KB3GiJzPrcfBpSnj

21° framing nails are available in different 'flavors' for different needs, plain or ring shank or stainless, etc.

There are also cordless battery powered ones now. No compressor needed, but they are generally heavier than pneumatic tools.

And there are still fuel-cell nailers like Paslode or others. No compressor needed, but a fuel cell is used instead.

Define what you want to build with the nailer, search online for choices and options and reviews, and go from there.

I don’t have a lot of experience with many framing nail guns, but I can tell you I bought a Bostitch F21PL fifteen years ago and it’s been great. I’ve framed two houses, multiple garages and sheds, some porches, and many smaller random projects with it and it’s been great. I’ve probably oiled it twice in that time and it just works. Nails are available everywhere in many sizes and materials at good prices too.

Thank you so much for the replies. Aren't all stick 21⁰ guns, by definition, plastic collation? I think, unless the deal of the year falls into my lap, I am seeking a stick wire-collated gun; So, assuming I don't have some big misconception(s), I should probably be seeking a 28⁰ gun?

Arent nail gun users supposed to do a small amount of oil daily? Oiling it only twice over many yeaes, I was advised against that kind of behavior, but I'm no expert. Maybe the people who taught me were chuckleheads. I know if you go crazy with big pours of oil you can allegedly blow out the seals.

IDK what a fuel cell is, but I have used a joist nailer gun that was cordless electric in conjunction with also requiring some gas cartridges. Unless someone gave me a gas/electric framer gun for free or five or twenty bucks, I probably have no interest in that style, assuming we're talking about the same thing. I cannot recall if the battery was replaceable or if it was not serviceable, but the battery would die quick because it was old.

I have somewhat extensively used M18 cordless gasless framers. Unless a deal fell into my lap, I probably have zero interest in that. All my batteries are Dewalt 20v, I don't want to buy Milwaukee or makita batteries. I'm not sure, but some cordless electric guns allegedly have to 'spin up' or something. That may not be desirable. I always thought the Milwaukee M18 nailers I used to use years ago were very good, although again, although I think they were all plastic collated, and I would really prefer wire collation unless I got a really good deal. So the whole subject might be a moot point.

Again, thanks so much fellas!

 

[Gremlin5]

I have a Metabo coil framing gun for sale in Maine right now.....it's a great deal.

Metabo HPT NV90AGS 3-1/2 Inch Coil Framing Nailer - tools - by owner - sale - craigslist

Brand new in the box professional coil framing nailer by Metabo HPT (formerly Hitachi). Contractors know these are the best pneumatic framer money can buy. Bought new, but switched over to battery...

maine.craigslist.org

I'm not trying to start an argument, but your post, and Google, makes it clear that's $350 worth of stuff retail, new & readily available. I assume the $269 price tag does not include any nails. Either way, $269 for the gun + $82 for 24 coils is only ~$350. I'm under the impression if a man is only gonna own one framer gun, the stick framer can supposedly/allegedly fit in tighter nooks and crannies, so the stick framer is more desirable, at least allegedly. And I doubt I'll be up to Belfast or Camden area anytime soon, so it's kind of a moot point. I appreciate the comment though, and I hope you can recoup your money. Thank you for this, I learned a little bit just considering it and doing the math. Not trying to be curt or fresh, I imagine I am wrong about some stuff and I'm guessing I have some big misconceptions, that's why I'm making this thread

 

[Mr onetwo]

Sorry for the confusion....It includes the nails.

from Reddit-

"Stick nailers are cheaper, more common, can get nails anywhere, that’s about it.
Coil nailers fit into tight joist bays much better, have much, much larger mags, but are a little heavier and are more expensive. IMO a coil nailer is the better tool by far."

 

[Mr onetwo]

coil of nails-up to 200 framing nails or 300 sheathing nails at a time–angled at 15 degrees and strung together by two thin wires

Stick nailers have a long magazine which accommodates two sticks of anywhere from 25 to 40 nails each

IMHO coil nailers are better if you are going to have 1 tool...reloading a stick nailer constantly is a pain in the ***

 

[Notgrownup]

Not to start a brand war. I think there Are way too many brands. The Metabo and Bostitch Are nice and you will be able to get them and nails for them. With that said , I built my shop with a cheap HF 21 degree ab 10 years ago, I still have it and use it occasionally. I was on a tight budget a the time. I bought an inexpensive compressor and went at it. If I was buying one today I would look at fuel cells type. Not hauling that air line around would be great.
if I was using it a lot I would go with coil. Reloading all the time is a *****.
i just looked at Lowe’s and the bostitch is priced pretty good in the hose type.

 

[Mr onetwo]

I have used HF trim nails in my Makita cordless trimmer and they work great for 1/2 the price.Fuel cells have gotten very expensive.Around here there are all kinds of used Pasload fuel guns for almost nothing. Can't give them away

 

[AEAdam]

The Hitachi /Metabo NR90 is a workhorse, commonly found on job sites. It’s the right answer for you in my opinion.

Some of these guns are sensitive about the nails they shoot. I have always run Metabo nails through mine, which I can buy at the nearby Lowe’s. Nails are heavy so online/amazon prices aren’t better than Lowe’s.

I power that thing with a flexilla hose. These guns are not light. Remember you are lifting gun, plus nails, plus hose. No gun sinks every nail perfectly, so I've got a tool belt on with a framing hammer. In my case, I’m climbing ladders and scaffolding with that mess. But I’m 62 and you’re not. But just give a thought about the weight of these things. And we use these up as high as we can reach and they hit pretty hard. It looks easier than it is on YouTube, where carpenters squirt nails out of these in bump mode. I can’t do that.

I have a coil nailer I’m currently using for siding. Metabo NV65. That is a real nice gun. I think I paid more for it than the NR90. I’m experimenting with 1/4” hitachi air lines and running it off a California air 8010A compressor. That’s been absolutely fine.

Only one tiny stupid quibble: I bought it because it is stupid quiet. It’s so quiet I can’t always hear it running and don’t realize I’m low on air pressure, So sometimes my nails aren’t sinking. Then I hear it and say oh ****.

One more thing: for interior framing, small projects, even a shed, you could use screws. Don’t discount screws.

 

[Mr onetwo]

If you are framing and sheathing or fence building...the coiler is the only way to go.

 

[Jeff C]

Nail guns are easy… pick up a Hitachi that takes the nail type you want to use and never look back.

 

[AEAdam]

Thank you so much for the replies. Aren't all stick 21⁰ guns, by definition, plastic collation? I think, unless the deal of the year falls into my lap, I am seeking a stick wire-collated gun; So, assuming I don't have some big misconception(s), I should probably be seeking a 28⁰ gun?

I’d pick a nailer you can buy nails for easily and inexpensively.

Arent nail gun users supposed to do a small amount of oil daily? Oiling it only twice over many yeaes, I was advised against that kind of behavior, but I'm no expert. Maybe the people who taught me were chuckleheads. I know if you go crazy with big pours of oil you can allegedly blow out the seals.

I oil before the start of each day regardless of how long that day will be. But you only need a few drops. Nail guns are exactly like the rifle I carried in the military. I keep it clean and oiled and it works fine. I know guys who pride themselves on never cleaning their rifles. Or never changing their motor oil. God bless. That ain’t me. A little bit of maintenance is my approach.

IDK what a fuel cell is, but I have used a joist nailer gun that was cordless electric in conjunction with also requiring some gas cartridges. Unless someone gave me a gas/electric framer gun for free or five or twenty bucks, I probably have no interest in that style, assuming we're talking about the same thing. I cannot recall if the battery was replaceable or if it was not serviceable, but the battery would die quick because it was old.

I think you have this right.

I have somewhat extensively used M18 cordless gasless framers. Unless a deal fell into my lap, I probably have zero interest in that. All my batteries are Dewalt 20v, I don't want to buy Milwaukee or makita batteries. I'm not sure, but some cordless electric guns allegedly have to 'spin up' or something. That may not be desirable. I always thought the Milwaukee M18 nailers I used to use years ago were very good, although again, although I think they were all plastic collated, and I would really prefer wire collation unless I got a really good deal. So the whole subject might be a moot point.

I’m not following the desire for wire. What you say may be true, but it’s not a problem. No matter what, I carry a stack of nails with me in my tool belt. I glued and nailed down subfloor and shot a lot of nails last year. If you are stick framing, you simply aren’t using that many nails. I don’t think what you are concerned about is an issue.

The battery framing guns are heavy. And yes, there’s a spool up time for some of them. I think for occasional framing jobs, they could be handy and I think I’d like one. I have a lot of interior framing in my near future. Or I just may stick with air.

I will say for finish nailers, I think battery finish nailers are unbeatable. By the time you switch on the air compressor and untangle the air hose, the battery gun has done the job and is back where it came from. I have a 15ga Milwaukee and I love everything about it except the on off switch.

As for battery systems, I gave up trying to maintain a single platform. But if I were to choose only one right now, it would be Milwaukee. I currently have Milwaukee, Bosch, Makita, Husqvarna lawn tools.

The thing about Milwaukee is, some of the bigger more demanding tools (track saw) require bigger batteries I don’t use on any other tool. So I basically have dedicated batteries for some tools. So why did I choose to “stick with Milwaukee?”. I’ve recently bought a couple M12 tools which I really like. Again, M12 is a different battery from my M18 Milwaukee tools. So my M12 tools are the same color as my M18 but otherwise as incompatible as any other brand would be.

I think Makita track saws might run on 2 normal 18v batteries you might use on a driver or recip saw, or circ saw. To me, that’s real interchangeability.

 

[tak1313]

Where are you? I live in NH and have a PC 21 degree I no longer use that you can have for free (if I can find it).

 

[Technologyteacher]

Ive always used Paslode guns

 

[RTM]

The Hitachi /Metabo NR90 is a workhorse, commonly found on job sites. I.
I power that thing with a flexilla hose. These guns are not light. Remember you are lifting gun, plus nails, plus hose. In my case, I’m climbing ladders and scaffolding with that mess. But I’m 62 and you’re not. But just give a thought about the weight of these things. And we use these up as high as we can reach and they hit pretty hard. It looks easier than it is on YouTube, where carpenters squirt nails out of these in bump mode. I can’t do that.

Very similar story to mine, edited out some details

I did a small job w my Metabo at 65, up a ladder, in a shed, and reaching into odd corners. The coil nailer would never have fit into two spots. The nailer hit a lot harder than I remembered, my shoulders hurt the next day.

I ran some older nails I bought used w an older PC nailer that blew out some unobtainium part, so the Metabo replaces it. The Metabo was also lighter. The guy who built the shed was a young Buck, kicked my *** running up and down the ladders with the nailer and a stiff as hell leaky air hose.

It was nice watching him work, but weeks later I had to go back to add on a bit of internal shelving

 

[MovingAlong]

When looking for a roofing gun, I stopped by my local fastener shop that also sold nail guns.

Was looking at two models, call them A & B. Both good guns, both supported by his tech to rebuild. What made my choice was his comment "I can get Brand A parts in two days. Brand B I could build you from the ground up right now because I already stock every single part, can fix them in minutes..." I went with Brand B because it has support.

Talk with your local guy, see what framing guns he supports. Or go with the Metabo HPT and get a couple for the same price...

I have that Metabo HPT. Chose the 30 deg because the nails are paper collated, less plastic trash or wire bits laying around. Paper disappears easier. Paslode sells 30 deg nails that meet code for "full head" by using an offset head. I used these 2 3/8" for sheeting and siding. The gun handled the little nails as good as the full on framing nails.

 

[308guru]

I'll chime in with another model, this time in red instead of green.

3-1/2" Full Round Head Framing Nailer

www.milwaukeetool.com

While it hasn't been on the jobsite for years on end, it has driven a lot of nails during my remodel projects and while helping friends. Never a problem with it.

I'll agree with others that Hitachi is know as the nailer to have, but I guess don't be hung up on that if you're not daily driving it.

 

[dnschmidt]

AIR: Hitachi, now stupidly labeled Metabo HPT
CORDLESS: Milwaukee with the cordless Metabo HPT in second place. DeWalt's cordless are not as well regarded as these two.

 

[finn]

I’m partial towards my Paslode framer. It’s probably fifteen years old now and has easily outlived my carpentry days.

On the other hand I wouldn’t take a Milwaukee M18 framer if you gave it to me with $100 bills taped to it.
Talk about a heavy, unwieldy pig of a tool. The guy I hired to help with my Sauna build had one. Even at 23 years old, it was a struggle for him to use it for extended periods.

 

[KnurledNut]

I used Paslode every day for years doing construction. Air and electric. They would be my first choice if I needed one.

 

[Gremlin5]

Where are you? I live in NH and have a PC 21 degree I no longer use that you can have for free (if I can find it).

That's really generous of you to offer. I have to drive to Leominster Massachusetts soon. NH is a long/tall state. Depending where you are, that could be close or really far.

 

[Gremlin5]

When looking for a roofing gun, I stopped by my local fastener shop that also sold nail guns.

Was looking at two models, call them A & B. Both good guns, both supported by his tech to rebuild. What made my choice was his comment "I can get Brand A parts in two days. Brand B I could build you from the ground up right now because I already stock every single part, can fix them in minutes..." I went with Brand B because it has support.

Talk with your local guy, see what framing guns he supports. Or go with the Metabo HPT and get a couple for the same price...

I have that Metabo HPT. Chose the 30 deg because the nails are paper collated, less plastic trash or wire bits laying around. Paper disappears easier. Paslode sells 30 deg nails that meet code for "full head" by using an offset head. I used these 2 3/8" for sheeting and siding. The gun handled the little nails as good as the full on framing nails.

Being in the military, the whole 'local guy' thing is kind of a moot point, unfortunately. I spend time worrying about what the local guy six states away in six years will worry about, so I try to keep with stuff that is universally popular everywhere. Like Fisher snowplows...

 

[Gremlin5]

I’m partial towards my Paslode framer. It’s probably fifteen years old now and has easily outlived my carpentry days.

On the other hand I wouldn’t take a Milwaukee M18 framer if you gave it to me with $100 bills taped to it.
Talk about a heavy, unwieldy pig of a tool. The guy I hired to help with my Sauna build had one. Even at 23 years old, it was a struggle for him to use it for extended periods.

That's almost exclusively what I used to use. It was a bit of a workout. I'm not sure if the one I used was .131"

 

[Gremlin5]

I’d pick a nailer you can buy nails for easily and inexpensively.

I oil before the start of each day regardless of how long that day will be. But you only need a few drops. Nail guns are exactly like the rifle I carried in the military. I keep it clean and oiled and it works fine. I know guys who pride themselves on never cleaning their rifles. Or never changing their motor oil. God bless. That ain’t me. A little bit of maintenance is my approach.

I think you have this right.

I’m not following the desire for wire. What you say may be true, but it’s not a problem. No matter what, I carry a stack of nails with me in my tool belt. I glued and nailed down subfloor and shot a lot of nails last year. If you are stick framing, you simply aren’t using that many nails. I don’t think what you are concerned about is an issue.

The battery framing guns are heavy. And yes, there’s a spool up time for some of them. I think for occasional framing jobs, they could be handy and I think I’d like one. I have a lot of interior framing in my near future. Or I just may stick with air.

I will say for finish nailers, I think battery finish nailers are unbeatable. By the time you switch on the air compressor and untangle the air hose, the battery gun has done the job and is back where it came from. I have a 15ga Milwaukee and I love everything about it except the on off switch.

As for battery systems, I gave up trying to maintain a single platform. But if I were to choose only one right now, it would be Milwaukee. I currently have Milwaukee, Bosch, Makita, Husqvarna lawn tools.

The thing about Milwaukee is, some of the bigger more demanding tools (track saw) require bigger batteries I don’t use on any other tool. So I basically have dedicated batteries for some tools. So why did I choose to “stick with Milwaukee?”. I’ve recently bought a couple M12 tools which I really like. Again, M12 is a different battery from my M18 Milwaukee tools. So my M12 tools are the same color as my M18 but otherwise as incompatible as any other brand would be.

I think Makita track saws might run on 2 normal 18v batteries you might use on a driver or recip saw, or circ saw. To me, that’s real interchangeability.

I was under the impression 28 degree wire ammo was way cheaper than other stick ammo. Also, if the nails have a tighter gap, you fit more nails in a full stick magazine... At least I assume so... I might be wrong! What I am more confused by, and less open-minded about, is my opposition to paper. I cannot fathom how someone east of the Mississippi, or in Washington state, could like the paper ammo for exterior framing... When I touched paper ammo, it seemed to always be disintegrating cuz no matter how hard we tried to store it in the enclosed trailer, or keep it in sealed plastic totes in the enclosed trailer, or avoid the rain, it always seemed to be falling apart due to being slightly wet. The older framers all seemed to know this and be adamant that no competent person would buy a paper framing gun. To reiterate, the only paper gun we had or used was for joist hangers, so we didn't even reach for it that often or use it most weeks. One thing I am realizing, though, is that even the 'most experienced' framers I worked with, were probably nothing like some of ya'll. I worked on islands and the company was by no means a framing company, we primarily rehabbed properties, and there was a significant maritime element to the work. We were certainly seldom building new construction homes, and I'm sure on a typical day we'd shoot one-tenth of the nails a real framer shoots daily. I certainly did enough framing to justify having framing guns a million times over, we certainly benefited from guns over traditional hammers, but the amount of nails the real framer's framers shoot on a daily basis is just unreal.



I don't have any large cordless tools, but I happen to have a Dewalt Flexvolt Battery. The battery is capable of 40v and/or 60v, but I only have 20v tools, and the flexvolt battery works in the handheld 20v tools just fine. I know that Dewalt has cordless mitre saws that use 2 batterys, and it may demand that each be flexvolt. I'm not sure how Milwaukee does it. Frankly I think the cordless mitre saw is a very limited application. I don't anticipate ever getting any large freestanding cordless tools. I don't even own a mitre saw. I got an ancient radial arm saw for free, and to me, that's a win. I think Milwaukee may have the better line of tools but Dewalt is what I have, and I take some pleasure in the fact that just by chance I originally got on the Dewalt train, and what I learned years later is that Dewalt is American-owned, but Milwaukee is owned by a company in communist China, specifically, Hong Kong. I won't be seriously deriding any Milwaukee users anytime soon though, I've used the tools, and they are clearly excellent tools, perhaps, one might argue, superior. I'm not sure if Dewalt makes them yet but electric shears and the pro press are both excellent Milwaukee tools that they might have a monopoly on. Dewalt has a tiny lower voltage battery the same way Milwaukee has the 12v battery. I have minimal experience with the tiny milwaukee battery and im not sure ive ever laid hands on the small dewalt battery. My dogma is that just having one type of battery is enough, althought the tiny cordless ratchets are probably awesome

 

[Gremlin5]

from Reddit-

"Stick nailers are cheaper, more common, can get nails anywhere, that’s about it.
Coil nailers fit into tight joist bays much better, have much, much larger mags, but are a little heavier and are more expensive. IMO a coil nailer is the better tool by far."

I did a small job w my Metabo at 65, up a ladder, in a shed, and reaching into odd corners. The coil nailer would never have fit into two spots. The nailer hit a lot harder than I remembered, my shoulders hurt the next day.

I'm not trying to contrast these two things to generate an argument or try to find out some reductive infantile thing like 'who is dumb and who is smart'. There's no reason you can't both be correct. But this is something I'm gonna look into more. If I get something cheap enough, then buyer's remorse isn't really possible, but I will try to really spend some time thinking about if I want coil or stick before I drive a long distance in search of and/or pay full price for a new nailer. Obviously, identifying the degree I want is almost as important. I assume that all coil framing nailers regardless of gauge are 15 degrees.... At least that is one aspect that probably simplifies the life of a coil-user. Thank you all very much

 

[JohnX14]

Unless you are framing houses, I think the stick nailer is a better choice. In the '90s we used coil nailers. Then the stick nailers were driving nails better, especially on LVL's. Then the coil nailers were improved so everyone went back to them. IMO, the stick nailers are just a better choice for anyone but a framing crew that is looking for max speed. And I have a friend who runs 3 framing crews, and he agrees that the stick nailer is a better choice, better performance. I know the coils hold 10X the nails, but the stick nails fit in my framing apron by the dozens, so it's almost a wash

 

[AEAdam]

I'm not trying to contrast these two things to generate an argument or try to find out some reductive infantile thing like 'who is dumb and who is smart'. There's no reason you can't both be correct. But this is something I'm gonna look into more. If I get something cheap enough, then buyer's remorse isn't really possible, but I will try to really spend some time thinking about if I want coil or stick before I drive a long distance in search of and/or pay full price for a new nailer. Obviously, identifying the degree I want is almost as important. I assume that all coil framing nailers regardless of gauge are 15 degrees.... At least that is one aspect that probably simplifies the life of a coil-user. Thank you all very much

If it helps, I think I paid a little over $100 for my NR90 second hand a bunch of years ago. I think a CPO or refurbished version can be had for around $160 now. My coil gun NV65 was easily twice that.

Good thread. I don’t think you can go too wrong with any of the recommendations offered in the posts above.

 

[Gremlin5]

Unless you are framing houses, I think the stick nailer is a better choice. In the '90s we used coil nailers. Then the stick nailers were driving nails better, especially on LVL's. Then the coil nailers were improved so everyone went back to them. IMO, the stick nailers are just a better choice for anyone but a framing crew that is looking for max speed. And I have a friend who runs 3 framing crews, and he agrees that the stick nailer is a better choice, better performance. I know the coils hold 10X the nails, but the stick nails fit in my framing apron by the dozens, so it's almost a wash

in the stick vs coil debate, my biggest concern probably has to be fitting it into tight nooks and crannies. If the stick drives the nails better too potentially, that's huge. But 95% of the nailing I do will be rafters, studs, headers, joists, rim joists, sheathing, and trusses. I'm surprised you guys do LVLs most weeks but clearly there's a lot about framing I don't know. I think I've only installed one LVL. I-beams and actual beams I've touched more.

 

[MoonRise]

Paper collated nails seem too delicate and water sensitive to me.

Wire collated nails spit and leave the wire pieces.

Plastic collated nails don't have the water issue of paper collated nails or the wire nubbins of the wire collated nails. They do spit the plastic pieces though.

Eye protection is a MUST no matter what nailers you are using!

Since I'm not using nails by the pallet, I'm not really worried about a few dollars difference in price for a case of framing nails.

So full head, 21° plastic collated stick nails in a pneumatic framing nailer work for me and my uses. YMMV and all that.

 

[AEAdam]

Thank you @MoonRise for reminding us about PPE. My wife is always on me about it. I’m pretty good about glasses. You really should wear ear protection with your nailers. I’m currently installing hardie siding and cutting it without a mask. That’s just not smart.


I hired this crew to do the parts I couldn’t reach myself. That’s Mathias using my NR90, if you zoom in. Just a reminder, carpenters work at heights, moving materials up and down. This crew dropped this gun a couple times, left it in the snow and mud. These things get beat up. And they weren’t careless.


No matter what gun you choose there’s no substitute for a good framing hammer. This is my 14oz Stiletto, which I really like. I install my joist blocking with pocket hole screws which is why the right angle impact is here.


I’m in the middle of installing hardie siding now. Dealing with integrating all the little penetrations. Just didn’t want to address these after the fact and have to cut into the siding. If you zoom in you can see the light fixtures going in adjacent to the front door. Windows and doors were done before the zip. The zip is a secondary outer layer. I left the original barn siding (refastened where it was loose with the NR 90), then house wrap, 1” of exterior foam insulation, then the 1/2” zip, which really just hold the siding and serves as a secondary outer layer moisture barrier. Had I known I was going to install zip (exterior crew request to speed up Hardie) I wouldn’t have done the initial house wrap.


Dryer vent. Nothing easy or straight forward about this. I don’t know if the code is new (don’t think so) but the HVAC suppliers near me didn’t seem to know why I was asking for big radius smooth elbows. To be fair, the barn’s structure has an intermediate rim joist 9x12 I didn’t want to cut through. So I have an s bend where the dryer duct will drop out of the ceiling inside a closet. That s bend could be a fire hazard if you get it wrong. Point is, all this needs to be figured out before you finish the exterior. Carpentry is a lot of little details, all woven together and interrelated.


I screwed all the joist hangers for these floors. Just about everything you see in this interior pic is screwed together. The floor over the balcony doors is actually temporary. You can see the original sheathing in this pic, and obviously my third floor window frames. The saw horses, paint racks, are all screwed. Point is, you can do an awful lot with screws, especially as a diyer. They are just convenient. I didn't have a nail gun when I started. It’s a helpful tool to be sure.

 

[tak1313]

That's really generous of you to offer. I have to drive to Leominster Massachusetts soon. NH is a long/tall state. Depending where you are, that could be close or really far.

I live in Candia, NH - it's about 1 1/2 drive from Leominster. Let me know if you're interested in the drive and I'll look for it this weekend. The drive may not be worth it to some because of how cheap you can get pneumatic framing nailers these days - especially off FB Marketplace.

 

[Gremlin5]

I live in Candia, NH - it's about 1 1/2 drive from Leominster. Let me know if you're interested in the drive and I'll look for it this weekend. The drive may not be worth it to some because of how cheap you can get pneumatic framing nailers these days - especially off FB Marketplace.

Thank you so much for the generous offer. With the price of gas, I'm not sure that makes any sense to drive up there. What if I send you a shipping label? Do you have a printer, a crappy cardboard box, maybe some foam and/or newspaper or other soft ****, and some transparent packing tape? I know that's a lot of drama and a pain in the ***. If you don't have a scale, I can just google how much that gun weighs; a carrier is unlikely to give us a hard time about a slightly miscalculated weight estimation. And I can do FedEx, or UPS or USPS, if one is more convenient, you could tell me your preference, if you have a preference. If the mail truck, UPS truck, or FedEx truck comes to your house or work, you can just hand the parcel to them without having to drive to any special location. Again, that's quite a large PITA request, so no worries if not. Thank you very much

 

[Gremlin5]

Paper collated nails seem too delicate and water sensitive to me.

Wire collated nails spit and leave the wire pieces.

Plastic collated nails don't have the water issue of paper collated nails or the wire nubbins of the wire collated nails. They do spit the plastic pieces though.

Eye protection is a MUST no matter what nailers you are using!

Since I'm not using nails by the pallet, I'm not really worried about a few dollars difference in price for a case of framing nails.

So full head, 21° plastic collated stick nails in a pneumatic framing nailer work for me and my uses. YMMV and all that.

People who drive nails without eye protection... that's crazy talk.

My experience has been that both wire and plastic are flinging pieces of **** everywhere at about mach 5, and some of it embeds into the wood, and/or into my skin. Unavoidable!

I assume you are admitted that wire might be slightly cheaper? I am a cheap *******, so if I am buying a nailgun full price that would probably make me want wire more.

Thank you very much. Yea, I cannot fathom the paper love unless the user lives in California or Morrocco or something

 

[Gremlin5]

Thank you @MoonRise for reminding us about PPE. My wife is always on me about it. I’m pretty good about glasses. You really should wear ear protection with your nailers. I’m currently installing hardie siding and cutting it without a mask. That’s just not smart.


I hired this crew to do the parts I couldn’t reach myself. That’s Mathias using my NR90, if you zoom in. Just a reminder, carpenters work at heights, moving materials up and down. This crew dropped this gun a couple times, left it in the snow and mud. These things get beat up. And they weren’t careless.


No matter what gun you choose there’s no substitute for a good framing hammer. This is my 14oz Stiletto, which I really like. I install my joist blocking with pocket hole screws which is why the right angle impact is here.


I’m in the middle of installing hardie siding now. Dealing with integrating all the little penetrations. Just didn’t want to address these after the fact and have to cut into the siding. If you zoom in you can see the light fixtures going in adjacent to the front door. Windows and doors were done before the zip. The zip is a secondary outer layer. I left the original barn siding (refastened where it was loose with the NR 90), then house wrap, 1” of exterior foam insulation, then the 1/2” zip, which really just hold the siding and serves as a secondary outer layer moisture barrier. Had I known I was going to install zip (exterior crew request to speed up Hardie) I wouldn’t have done the initial house wrap.


Dryer vent. Nothing easy or straight forward about this. I don’t know if the code is new (don’t think so) but the HVAC suppliers near me didn’t seem to know why I was asking for big radius smooth elbows. To be fair, the barn’s structure has an intermediate rim joist 9x12 I didn’t want to cut through. So I have an s bend where the dryer duct will drop out of the ceiling inside a closet. That s bend could be a fire hazard if you get it wrong. Point is, all this needs to be figured out before you finish the exterior. Carpentry is a lot of little details, all woven together and interrelated.


I screwed all the joist hangers for these floors. Just about everything you see in this interior pic is screwed together. The floor over the balcony doors is actually temporary. You can see the original sheathing in this pic, and obviously my third floor window frames. The saw horses, paint racks, are all screwed. Point is, you can do an awful lot with screws, especially as a diyer. They are just convenient. I didn't have a nail gun when I started. It’s a helpful tool to be sure.

I won't be paying full price for a new stilleto hammer until I'm worth 20 mil and I'm currently in the red as far as liquidities go so that's not happening anytime soon. I'll be buying a Rolex Submariner before I get any stilletos. They seem nice though!

I'm surprised you're still using fiber cement board siding... I thought a few years ago everyone seemed to be convinced that LP was gonna render fiber cement board obsolete?

Thanks for the comment. yea, PPE is a must.

 

[JohnX14]

. The zip is a secondary outer layer. I left the original barn siding (refastened where it was loose with the NR 90), then house wrap, 1” of exterior foam insulation, then the 1/2” zip, which really just hold the siding and serves as a secondary outer layer moisture barrier. Had I known I was going to install zip (exterior crew request to speed up Hardie) I wouldn’t have done the initial house wrap.

Are you fully insulating the interior cavities, then have original sheathing/ siding/ new housewrap/ new 1" foam/ new Zip, followed by the new siding? If so, have you considered that you may have a problem with condensation at the original sheathing? I know this is veering off of op, but something to consider.

 

[KenC]

Senco. good tools. good service. good warranty.

 

[tarbellb]

Nailers have been perfected, everybody makes a decent nailer at this point.
So now it's what features and price you want to hit

Me, I don't do a ton and if so I'm usually setup and able to reload easily- went for the
Paslode F325R Short magazine
- lighter
- fits everywhere
- easy to find nails

I would also look at these badass remakes of theOG Hitachi NR83 composite remake, look super nice and the price is right

 

[AEAdam]

Are you fully insulating the interior cavities, then have original sheathing/ siding/ new housewrap/ new 1" foam/ new Zip, followed by the new siding? If so, have you considered that you may have a problem with condensation at the original sheathing? I know this is veering off of op, but something to consider.

Yes. But I wouldn’t use the word fully. I think in reality the original sheathing will be inside the conditioned space.

It seems like something could go terribly wrong. And it’s the ceilings I worry most about. My plan is to spray foam them so no air has access. That said, what I’m doing is the code requirement for my zone. Not sure if this started in 2021, but I don’t see it being done around here. As it stands, I probably won’t comply with the 2021 version, which is R20 inside + R5 outside (continuous insulation). I feel like we are setting ourselves up for spray foam as the only path forward to meet code.

I won't be paying full price for a new stilleto hammer until I'm worth 20 mil and I'm currently in the red as far as liquidities go so that's not happening anytime soon. I'll be buying a Rolex Submariner before I get any stilletos. They seem nice though!

I’m not worth $20M, but my lower back is worth the $90 I paid for this hammer. I honestly don’t use it enough each day to have repetitive strain elbow problems, which was its sales pitch. But I walk around with this on my hip or in the middle of my back and after a day on my feet, 28oz hammers wore me out. This thing is half that.

I'm surprised you're still using fiber cement board siding... I thought a few years ago everyone seemed to be convinced that LP was gonna render fiber cement board obsolete?

I bought this Hardie before covid and I’m not sure about it. Looks good up close, but not perfect.