Self Tapping Screw – what driver? (edit its called a nutsetter)

[HCNDM]

Hi All,

I love (self tapping) machine screw for quick assembly projects (with low tollerences). The screws with the built in one use drill bit at the end.

Here in holland the smaller sizes either come with a phillips or more commonly hex head.

The hex heads are conveniently sized in accordance with bit holders for cordeless drills (m8?).

A problem I have run into is slippage, and resulting rounding off of the inside of the bit holder. Initially I though cheap $%& Chicom bit holder but I have since stripped both a wera as wel. I have noticed that fit in a bit holder is not optimal, and theres some wobble.

So here comes the question. What is the right tool (socket / bit holder) to drive in self tapping machine screws? Should I live with the fact that after about ten screws through 5mm+ steel the bit holder is stripped or should I be using a specialized bit holder, or an impact socket + adapter?

Maybe its my technique? I generally drive these using a cordless drill. Through anything other than sheet metal at medium speed with some cutting oil.

Guess I want to avoid buying 7 euro bit holders for every 3 euros of screws.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[gungatim]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

I use a lot of those over here in the US, but they are either 1/4" or 5/16". cheap bit holders work but the better ones have a magnet in them to hold the screws. the heads are not very deep and rounded on top to make insertion easy, so there is not a whole lot of "bite". I also find that using the cordless on HIGH speed does a much better job than low or medium, the screws don't seem to grab and drill as well going slow and they slip more.

hope that helps...

 

[HCNDM]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

I use a lot of those over here in the US, but they are either 1/4" or 5/16". cheap bit holders work but the better ones have a magnet in them to hold the screws. the heads are not very deep and rounded on top to make insertion easy, so there is not a whole lot of "bite". I also find that using the cordless on HIGH speed does a much better job than low or medium, the screws don't seem to grab and drill as well going slow and they slip more.

hope that helps...

Thanks! I just realized the heads might be SAE. which would explain some of the slippage. Gonna try higher speed and pop out the calipers to be sure.

 

[jallyn]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

Maybe they are 5/16" heads and your 8mm driving bit is slightly too large? Lots of 5/16" heads here in the states. Maybe some swam over the pond?

 

[Doug Arthurs]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

If you are using the same adapter that the hex bits go in they are ot made for that. I use a proper socket driver never broke or worn one out yet.

 

[HCNDM]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

Maybe they are 5/16" heads and your 8mm driving bit is slightly too large? Lots of 5/16" heads here in the states. Maybe some swam over the pond?

I was thinking this too. I have a supply of +- a thousand in a few length sizes, left behind by a contractor in my last house. Origin Unknown so will have to pull out a caliper tonight.

If you are using the same adapter that the hex bits go in they are ot made for that. I use a proper socket driver never broke or worn one out yet.

Yes I am using the same adapter. It conveniently fit (more or less). I haven't see dedicated socket drivers before. I was considering a cordless to 1/4 socket adapter and a corresponding impact socket. I will be ordering some of these dedicated socket drivers.

Right tool for the right job.

Thankyou all!

 

[larry_g]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

http://apexbits.com/apex-nutsetters.aspx

One thing to pay attention to on the driver you are using is does it have a large lead in to accommodate quick insertion of the screw but also holding the screw away from the hex and only engaging part of the hex. OR is the end of the driver flat engaging all of the hex on the screw? Some of the TEC screws out there have a very shallow head and you have to have a driver that grabs it all.

lg
no neat sigline

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

A lot of bit holders (and sockets) have a radius edge to the hex hole. File or grind the end back to get a sharper corner. The screws I've used are typically 1/4" or 5/16".

 

[HCNDM]

Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

Just got home and it's all of the above. Shallow head ungrippy driver...

I ordered a metric set of dedicated Wera drivers this afternoon. These should be better quality. If not flat I will file them as suggested for a crisp edge.

The main problem however is;

The head measures at 6.2 mm (plus minus reading error on vernier caliper)



A size 7 metric socket or standard hex bit 6.5mm seams to fit but not well as I mentioned.

Quick lookup and 6.2mm is closer to 5/8ths than anything else.

The measurements are the same for both my unknown batch as well as a known batch from a big chain hardware store (like Home Depot). The hardware store knowns are labeled 7 metric.




In the case of the hardware store screws: I am gonna guess some industrious person in a Far East country thought it would be easier to pass SAE off as metric. What's 7/10 of a mm anyway? The unknown screws get the benefit of doubt (more on that below)

Annoying.

This means three things for me:

1) find a 5/8 socket driver in Europe. Easier said than done but worth doing due to the large qty of screws I have like this. Other than the heads being off sized these screws have been decent to me quality wise. I don't use them for structural or critical applications. Guessing eBay or Amazon will be my friend in this endeavor.

2) find a more reliable manufacturer / supplier of metric headed screws than the big name store for any future buys.

3) don't throw away boxes or screw labels. The batch left behind by the contractor may very well have been SAE but I don't know and can't check because I threw out the original boxes. They are better than the big store ones. Sharper bit and threads, tougher metal, and more sharply defined hex head.

Again thank you all for the advice and tips.


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[jallyn]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

Slightly over 6mm is 1/4". Also look at the top scale of your caliper. It is almost dead nuts on 1/4". Try a 1/4" nut setter. As others have said...common sizes are 1/4" (6.35mm) and 5/16" (7.9375mm).

 

[HCNDM]

Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

Slightly over 6mm is 1/4". Try a 1/4" nut setter. As others have said...common sizes are 1/4" (6.35mm) and 5/16" (7.9375mm).

Thanks! Guessing it may be worth getting a set like the metric Wera set.

Never even noticed the caliper had SAE. So used to thinking metric when it comes to tools....

First SAE tools here I come.

 

[Superbec]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

you don't need to buy a 1/4 driver, the holder will drive the screws, it's also 1/4

 

[HCNDM]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

you don't need to buy a 1/4 driver, the holder will drive the screws, it's also 1/4

That's where this all started [emoji39] the holders keep stripping

 

[oldldh]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

Tekton #2938 Fractional and Metric...

$5.99 from www.amazon.com ...

Or...

6.99 Pounds Sterling from www.amazon.co.uk:sad::mad:

 

[KnurledNut]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

Yeah the bitholders don't typically engage tek screws well.
They weren't designed for that.
You need a 1/4 magnetic nutsetter.
I use Malco, Apex and Evco.
The magnets seem to break or fall out of the cheap ones...of course I'm running them in with a impact driver.
Quality ones will last a long time, even running in hardened tapcons.

 

[rmsg0040]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

Get quality ones if you do, I had a 3/8" mastercraft one in which the magnet fell out in under 30 minutes of use, I ended buying some Dewalt one and so far they have held up. I mostly use 5/16 and 3/8

 

[Parabellum]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

Magnetic nutsetter is the way to go, if you use a 1/4 or 3/8 socket adaptor, the socket will fly or come off the drill.

 

[HCNDM]

Self Tapping Machine Screw – What driver / Bit Holder / Socket

Sae nutsetters ordered from the uk

Shipping costs [emoji22][emoji22]


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[Wamsutta]

Re: Self Tapping Machine Screw – what driver (edit iTS called a nutsetter)

Just for your info: self tapping screws and machine screws are two different animals.

 

[HCNDM]

Just for your info: self tapping screws and machine screws are two different animals.

You are completely correct:

I meant these: but then the type where the first bit of thread is tapping so that you don't end up rethreading a hole after removing and re-inserting. The rest of the thread (two third from head) doesn't tap / cut making that bit a machine screw if i am Not mistaken.

 

[Fixed]

I've worked in a sheet metal shop before, and all we used were self-tappers. The way to go is definitely a magnetic nutsetter in an impact driver. The best ones are the Klein's, the malco ones are almost as good, but the dewalt ones are still good enough for the casual user.

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