Self taught welder

[GaryM909]

We have “Half hour fire watch” drilled into us at work so bad I check the oven after cooking dinner.

Being able to weld at home is a great thing.

Burning your house down for that convenience, not so much.

A few years ago I did a couple weeks work at an University in our city. They had a 4 hour fire watch rule. Just before I drove off for the day an apprentice plumber would head over to the food court and load up. Then he would come back and pull out a lawn chair and a few books. He had to sit there for 4 hours. Easy overtime pay.

I always clean up after welding for the day and I do take my time. Just in case.

 

[cannuck]

A few years ago I did a couple weeks work at an University in our city. They had a 4 hour fire watch rule. Just before I drove off for the day an apprentice plumber would head over to the food court and load up. Then he would come back and pull out a lawn chair and a few books. He had to sit there for 4 hours.

We were on a construction job somewhere in the deep South and the welders on part of site near us got 10 hours and sent home for day. Since we were filling and processing transformer oil we are on site 24x7 until done. Had a trainee from local branch with me and trying to get him to appreciate why we walk all around the processor, hoses, transformer and jobsite (in our area) every hour even if everything "seems" to be going well. When the sun got low I happened to notice some reflection in window of a piece of equipment near our part of the site, so sent him over to investigate. We ran over with our 20lb. extinguishers while help was on the way and managed to get the budding blaze under control. Welders in a building did not clean up at end and did no fire watch. Would have burned down at least one generator and building in a megabuck, megawatt combined cycle cogen site if we weren't there (as site security seldom got off their fat ***).

I tell this story to every new guy (or gal) I encounter as we move from district to district.

 

[cjcocn]

A lot of good advice here.

As you get used to your specific welding unit, write down the settings that work best on different metal thicknesses.

I’ve found that the settings charts are not always right for every situation, so after I find the setting that works I write it down so that I can use it again when welding the same type / thickness of material.

 

[Mike65]

I am also a self taught welder. When I acquired my 69 Mustang project 22 years ago I purchased a welder & proceeded to start replacing sheet metal that would not be seen first to learn how to weld. Once I got better then I started doing the sheet metal on the outside of the body.

 

[Jswain]

Not much more here to add other then welding on your table flat and overhead/uphill/underneath a vehicle are quite different. So once you dial in everything being comfortable on the bench practice in the positions/directions you will actually be welding.

 

[andyvh1959]

You mentioned welding on a bike frame. A good weldor knows metallurgy. You don't want to be MIGing on 4130 on anything that your life might depend on. That is unless you send the frame in to a heat treating company. Study welding and technique and do the practice, practice thing. Build racks out of bed frames, none of it matters. But if you're gonna ride it, it matters.

True about 4130. Years back I built a recumbent bike frame from scrath using mostly 4130, and some mild carbon steel (for the wheel dropouts, caliper mounts). I made a jig on 3/4" plywood to get everything centered, steer head angle right, etc. I tack welded the frame using my MIG welder, just enough to hold everything together. Then I took the frame, still on the jig, to a local pro to have him TIG weld it. Told him I wanted it professionally welded for strength, but also I wanted pretty welds, didn't want to touch any welds with a grinder. After paint it came out great.

Two days after I finished it, after a five mile test ride, I put in in my car and headed down to Iowa for three days of the RAGBRAI. Did 215 miles in three days. A lot of people did not believe it was a home built/hand built bike. Many asked me what brand name it was. I said, "Voet1st", kind of Dutch for "foot first" as on a recumbent the feet/pedals are out front.

 

[Stuart in MN]

$2k for a class? Holy smokes. I did one at a voc high school in MA for $400 in 2014. Current price is $425

Yeah, that seems really high. Check again to see if they have something in adult continuing education. I took a class some years back at a local tech college that was one night a week for I think 8 or 12 weeks; it was designed specifically for hobbyists and wasn't the full bore class for those who wanted to make a career out of it. It was pretty inexpensive, and the instructor's day job was at a nuclear power plant so he really knew his stuff.

 

[Bodj Built]

You mentioned welding on a bike frame. A good weldor knows metallurgy. You don't want to be MIGing on 4130 on anything that your life might depend on. That is unless you send the frame in to a heat treating company. Study welding and technique and do the practice, practice thing. Build racks out of bed frames, none of it matters. But if you're gonna ride it, it matters.

You're right in stating that 4130 needs to be heat treated, but that's to get the most yield strength out of it. You can 100% mig weld 4130, but it will be a bit brittle because it hardens, but that is true for any welding process on 4130. That's not to say that you're going to die if you don't heat treat the part. There are MANY offroad racers (trophy trucks, class 1, etc) using 4130 tubing for their rollcages, and I don't believe any of them are being heat treated.

Even in this video you can see the Benthel guys rolling at over 100mph and continuing the race with very little damage to the chassis.

Bike frames are thinner, making the brittleness a bit more of a concern, but I wouldn't call it life threatening. It will definitely crack over time and some abuse, though.

Doesn't matter for me. 4130 is too rich for my blood (unless I can find remnant pieces). Till then I use DOM

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

A lot of times makerspaces have introduction to welding classes. Also there might be private companies that do welding classes. But a lot of times they'll offer a one or two day course to introduce you to welding. That might be the ticket take one of those and get up to speed and refreshed. And certainly wouldn't be $2,000.

 

[rabakoe]

There's got to be a better/cheaper community college option than $2K around Green Bay?

Yeah, that seems really high. Check again to see if they have something in adult continuing education. I took a class some years back at a local tech college that was one night a week for I think 8 or 12 weeks;

I wish. Our tech college doesn’t offer anything for hobbyists. Trust me, I’ve looked. They only offer welding certificates and degrees. @andyvh1959 if you ever find anything, let a local know!

 

[cherokee]

We were on a construction job somewhere in the deep South and the welders on part of site near us got 10 hours and sent home for day. Since we were filling and processing transformer oil we are on site 24x7 until done. Had a trainee from local branch with me and trying to get him to appreciate why we walk all around the processor, hoses, transformer and jobsite (in our area) every hour even if everything "seems" to be going well. When the sun got low I happened to notice some reflection in window of a piece of equipment near our part of the site, so sent him over to investigate. We ran over with our 20lb. extinguishers while help was on the way and managed to get the budding blaze under control. Welders in a building did not clean up at end and did no fire watch. Would have burned down at least one generator and building in a megabuck, megawatt combined cycle cogen site if we weren't there (as site security seldom got off their fat ***).

I tell this story to every new guy (or gal) I encounter as we move from district to district.

Several years ago around here they are building a new apartment complex. They said a welder caused the fire, and they estimated that when someone was building a guard rail on a balcony a spark went somewhere and burned the entire thing to the ground. MILLIONS lost to one spark. They are almost done as well. I remember that news story well. You could see the smoke at least 20 miles away.

 

[cherokee]

Myself most my welding is on stuff that busted in a field. I have started a few grass fires in my time, but if the machine will not move it will not move. Out with a generator and a 110 welder and you hope it will hold till you get back to the barn.

I have also started a few fires being lazy.

This is the only photo I had on my phone that shows the subject. Not the finish mower the pups are investigating but the crane next to the shop. I did not build him but I have modified him as he has broken over the years. I do it right there. Added some extensions to his feet to make where the feet and legs attach a bit more strong. That started a nice little fire there in the dead weeds.

The dogs are Recon, big and has crossed the rainbow bridge. I called her the cow dog. And Remington the little black one. He is getting up there and really slowing down.

 

[andyvh1959]

What a cool dog!

Thanks all for the replies and encouragement.

 

[Pen & Wrench]

I think taking some formal training would be a great idea. My Dad was one of just a few really good welders in the county I grew up in. If there was something that no one could fix, he was the one they called. I tried to learn from him as much as I could but a teacher he was not. But I learned a lot from him, and if I wanted to improve my welding skills, I would need to take some classes. As it is I can do pretty well with a stick welder, and some with an acetylene torch

 

[cherokee]

I would love formal training, but like others said it really does not exist around here, I have not checked with KC community colleges as they are a bit away.

Like I said I can stick the metal together and it will stay, but I am sure it is not "right".

The other day I was welding something at a 90deg. I had done something on top and it actually came out looking pretty good, but having the settings set the same I was getting this hot stuff falling off and really making sparks on the floor with a bit of a Pfft noise. I think to hot? I tried turning it down a click but not sure if it is penetrating.

The only welding training I had is a guy said welding is like ***, without penetration it is not anything.

I think that is ok to say here.

 

[rdoty]

If you are doing sheet metal work on cars you will be stitch welding. This involves triggering the MIG for about a second to create a weld dot then moving about 2" down the seam and making another weld dot. After you have completely welded the seam go back and weld between the dots. Repeat this process until the weld dots run together. Then grind the welds flush. Hold a flashlight behind the weld and look for pinholes, then go back and weld the pinholes. Repeat until you have a solid weld with no pinholes. With practice you won't be able to tell where the weld seam is once you are done.

The goal of stitch welding is to minimize heat distortion by reducing the amount of heat you put into the sheet metal and allowing the metal to completely cool between making the weld dots. If you just run a solid bead the sheet metal will distort, usually badly.

I find it helps to set the welder 2-3 settings higher than recommended. Set it to the point that you get a weld dot with good penetration on the back, minimal bead height on the front, and you aren't blowing out the metal. The standard recommendations are for a continuous bead.

Experts recommend planishing the weld. This means hitting each weld bead with a hammer and dolly right after you weld it and before it cools completely. This minimizes distortion/shrinking of the sheet metal and reduces the amount of grinding you need to do.

There are many good YouTube videos on auto body work that cover this process.

A good place to start is to take a piece of sheet metal and cut a rectangular hole in the middle of it - think of cutting out a rusty area. Then cut and fit a patch for the hole. Tack weld the patch in place and then stitch weld it. The goal is to be able to run a DA sander over the whole panel and not be able to tell where the patch is. Repeat this process with curved pieces of metal. Soon you will be an expert!

 

[CraigStu]

......A good place to start is to take a piece of sheet metal and cut a rectangular hole in the middle of it - think of cutting out a rusty area. Then cut and fit a patch for the hole. Tack weld the patch in place and then stitch weld it. The goal is to be able to run a DA sander over the whole panel and not be able to tell where the patch is. Repeat this process with curved pieces of metal. Soon you will be an expert!

The parts I didn't quote have a ton of great info but man, this part is a killer. It is the reason I have stayed away from body work. Man is it hard to get to that end result. But rdoty is 100% correct, it is the goal and the effort will be very worthwhile.

 

[steel 35]

I took a metal art class at 40
It was cheap, and it was at a big campus
with a open shop and Instructor.
He learned how to bonk fish.

 

[dfiler2]

"He learned how to bonk fish.

?

 

[cjcocn]

"He learned how to bonk fish.

?

Sounds like there was a barter and the welding instructor ended up on some fishing trips.

 

[bauschracing]

Be advised that some motorcycle and Motorsports vehicles have chrome Molly frames.you will probably need to Tig them.

 

[ZRX61]

We have “Half hour fire watch” drilled into us at work so bad I check the oven after cooking dinner.

Being able to weld at home is a great thing.

Burning your house down for that convenience, not so much.

At home I only ever welded before noon.. & there was a 5gal bucket of water right by the bench.

 

[saltwater4life]

.030 wire and 75/25 argon co2 is the way to go. Work sent me to a one week welding class but I’ve been a diy welder for a few years now with great success.

 

[andyvh1959]

Did some recent welding to mount swivel caster wheels on the deck frame of my Husqvarna front deck riding mower. I had to create a front crosstube with mounts for the caster swivels, that I welded onto the deck mount frame. I now have swivel wheels in place of the fixed deck wheels that would dig into the turf on any turns.

I burned the wire into the tips a bunch of times, until I realized to hold the torch end off the work a bit more. Had the amp range up to high, by three pin positions, and the wire feed was a bit high. Now, I can lay a bead with good penetration on 1/8" metal. Still running a spool of Harbor Freight 0.025" welding wire. Would I be better off to buy welding wire from a local welding supply?

My auto-dark welding helmet is also a Harbor Freight cheapo. Would I be better off to buy a brand name quality auto-dark helmet? Also, does anyone use auto-dark welding goggles? Like for doing tack welds for initial assembly?

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

You can get Lincoln welding wire from either Lowe's or home depot. On the shelf. Or you can get Hobart welding wire from tractor supply and Northern tool. Both of those are good wires. If you get from the welding store I would avoid airgas. They have their own house wire (Radnor )and then they do a hazmat charge on top of that which is super annoying.

 

[Jswain]

Lincoln's .025 mig wire burns real nice and you can basically get it anywhere as mentioned above.

If your lid isn't flashing you then you might not notice much of a difference. I switched to a Lincoln viking from the Lincoln $100 2 sensor lids because after a few years they would flash you lots as they didn't auto darken occasionally and couldn't change the batteries.

I believe their newer cheap lids are 4 sensors with replaceable batteries. The difference was pretty big for me

 

[finn]

Biggest difference in helmets, besides price, seems to be that the more expensive helmets have a larger screen.

I like my Speedglas, but my welding isn’t any better than if I use my old Hobart from TSC, or an inexpensive Amazon or Forney Farm and Fleet special.

A professional welder would probably have a different opinion, though.

 

[welder57]

MIG Welding Basics For Beginners U-Tube, Is a good start. ​

 

[Zeke]

Welder here and schooled. What I've found is that once you figure out how to do nice weld with flux core, you're on the way. Once you can weld with oxy/acet, you're on the way. Once you can use a cutting torch to make flawless cuts, you've arrived.

 

[welder57]

After 20 Years Of Welding, I Learn How To Weld = U-Tube Channel. (This person is not Myself) I have been a welder for 50 Years, Mig, Rod, Oxy-Ace and I Use a Phasma Cutter machine as well. Be steady, use good gloves, Auto-Darking helment with the correct tint, is a must.​

 

[andyvh1959]

I may need to replace my HF welding helmet. I bought it at least 15 years ago, and I don't recall ever have replaced the battery and in fact I doubt it has a battery.

 

[LryFx1]

Someone mentioned that there are no technical college welding classes here in WI. I think he is in the Green Bay area ? It just took me less than a minute to find this one via a google search. Being that it is $209.00, I'm pretty sure it is an evening class, not a whole degree program. NTC is a good school from all I have heard, and they have several locations. I did not look at all the course details, but interested people should certainly do that.

WELDING FOR APPRENTICES 23137 | Northcentral Technical College

www.ntc.edu

Pretty much all areas of our state have similar Technical schools / colleges, and I would expect that most of them will have these sorts of courses. Before I retired and moved to central WI, I was a Milwaukeean, and I know for certain that MATC and WCTC in that area have these types of classes.

With that said, the OP mentioned that he has a friend who is a good welder. Learning some basics from him, and then LOTS of practice is a good way to proceed also. I'm learned my welding skills that way, and I'm fairly good now ( not all processes and all materials of course, but the ones I need to use on a regular basis ) . The one bit of advice I can give regarding practicing is this ( I suppose it depends on the person though ) : It is better to practice on stuff that needs fixing, rather than simply welding practice pieces together. That way your interest in doing a good job is higher.

 

[Notgrownup]

Self taught here as well but took it in shop. I can stick and MIG a bit but TIG and brazing is not an option now. I might could if I got the torches again. Practice is key. Make sure you are using the correct tool for the material at hand is what my teacher said. If your not sure ask.
We have @ place in New Bern NC that’s called Shop class. The teachers show how to start tasks and show techniques. I want to enroll in the wood joinery class. It’s 4 Fridays for $200. Not too bad.

 

[andyvh1959]

Spent Friday in the fab shop of an old family friend, getting welding instruction from a welder/fab professional of 50 years. Great one on one instruction, and he also volunteers welding instruction at the local HS in Waupun WI. I learned a lot, and produced some welds that Leon said were professional looking, um, for a few inches of the 6" long fillet weld I did on 10ga steel. Things I learned:
1. I need a professional helmet, chuck the crappy HF helmet or go blind. Plus with a quality Miller helmet, I can adjust the darkness setting to better suit my vision
2. I need a welding table, adjustable height, get the work up were I can get my helmet close into the weld, quit kneeling on the floor to weld
3. Need a welders pliers, Lean said the spring loaded one from HF is actually pretty good
4. Light, I may need an intense LED light I can shine into the weld area, seems I have some issues seeing into the weld zone so I keep my weld pool on track. My vision I nearly 90% right eye for close work.
5. Practice, practice, practice more. Probably good to build a weld table and update my fab cart with more welding practice to make it more functional and get me more inches of welding.
6. Stock up on welding gloves and old long sleeve work shirts from Goodwill. Leon said leather hay bailing gloves from Fleet Farm are inexpensive, and good for welding.

 

[TRLKC]

I’m kind of in a similar place. Always wanted to learn to weld and figured retirement is a good opportunity. Picked up a nice used Miller MultiMatic and have been watching lots of YouTube videos and then going to the garage to practice. I just completed my first real project, a welder cart built around a cheap Craftsman tool chest and a ZTfab double tank bracket. I’m pretty pleased with it for a first go at actually making something. But, I’m planning to take an evening course at the VoTech this fall when they ramp up. (Under $100). Until then, I’ll keep playing, grinding and rattle canning!

 

[Jswain]

If you are having trouble seeing after you buy a new lid you may want to look into a cheater lens as well. You can get them in a few different magnifications but a lot of people swear by them. All of your other ideas sound good as well. Post some pics of your progress

 

[TRLKC]

If you are having trouble seeing after you buy a new lid you may want to look into a cheater lens as well. You can get them in a few different magnifications but a lot of people swear by them. All of your other ideas sound good as well. Post some pics of your progress

I’m going to agree strongly with Jswain on this. My old eyes could not see the weld area until I tried this. It was night and day difference. I actually got these safety glasses that have magnification off Amazon. That way I also get an added level of protection from them.

 

[CraigStu]

My helmet is a Miller that I bought w/ my welder 15yrs ago. I am kind of looking at replacements just because. I will go w/ a major brand because I have just 2 eyes and don't want to risk them. I am 75 and wear trifocals and some recent tig welding I was having trouble seeing the puddle. I discovered that the adjustable darkness was the key. I also discovered that I need to change the adjustment depending on weld amperage. 80A for thin metal needed less darkening than 120-150A for thicker metal. I also find that eye to weld distance needs to be carefully set so my trifocal bottom lens is within it's range. I am generally 10-12 inches from the weld.

 

[PatY]

If you are having trouble seeing after you buy a new lid you may want to look into a cheater lens as well. You can get them in a few different magnifications but a lot of people swear by them. All of your other ideas sound good as well. Post some pics of your progress

This. Made all the difference for me. I can actually see the puddle now.

 

[andyvh1959]

All good stuff. Was doing some welding today, with my M35. 2nd peg amp setting, wire feed up at 80. I was able to do about 8"of welding on 12ga. stock. Then, thinking the feed seemed high, I turned it down to 60, and all I got was the wire burning into the tip, twice, tried again and all I could get was a "snap" and wire burned in the tip again. I suspect the original, 70's vintage, cable liner may either be dirty inside, maybe rusty, or kinked. I found a NOS cable liner for my gun on ebay, ordered it and will replace it this week. Maybe I can get the wire feed turned down then, and less burning in the tip. Thinking for welding 12ga. the 4th peg (heat tap) and 50 on the wire feed should be a good choice to get calibrated to get a fresh start.

Now, most important thing is I need to get a quality welding helmet. I'd like a large viewport, and adjustable darkening so I can see better to get the weld started. Really only interested in Miller brand. Don't care for anything fancy, just good and functional, and eye/face protection of course. For once I am not buying cheap, gotta go good as I only got the vision I have, and I found I need the best options for visions to be more effective in directing my welding.

My welding instructor told me to ditch the CO2 and go with Argon blend for gas. He said no matter what I got left in the 30+ year old bottle on my M35, just make the change and get cleaner welds. Plus that cleaner weld makes that welding buzz aural that sounds like good work being done.