Senville Aura or Pioneer Hyperperformance

[TimeOrMoney]

I’m getting ready to submit a permit application for a small (9kBTU) mini-split for a mountain cabin downstairs(heat only). I’m doing a self install amd have all the equipment and knowledge to do so. Torn between the Pioneer and Senville though.

The Pioneer is attractive due to better documentation, and the warranty may be valid for a DIY install. From what few reviews I’ve seen, Senville might be better quality, but the reviews were not for the Aura or Hyperperformance.

ASHP, a great site that evaluates heating performance, gives the heating edge to Senville, although the Pioneer may be slightly more efficient for my particular use case. Strangely, the Pioneer has a worse HSPF, while better COPs at the outdoor temperatures I think I’d be at more frequently.

Anybody have any experience with heating with the Aura or Hyperformance? Does Senville have better quality? Senville is made by Midea; I’m not sure who manufactures Parker Davis’s Pioneer products.

 

[WildBill]

In the small amount of experience with Senville units I've had they seem to have better made and easier to bend line sets than some others, but are overall not as high of quality as Pioneer or Mitsubishi. I personally would go with a Mitsubishi unit, then Pioneer, then all the Madea units like Mr.Cool, Senville, etc. The supplier after purchase support is something to look at as well, you can usually buy the same unit a bunch of places but not everyone will support you after the purchase, and parts can be hard to get for some units. Be sure and put a surge protector at the outside disconnect, the main boards on these things are really delicate.

This does not answer your question but just throwing it out there, mini-splits are not usually the best for heating, especially if it gets below about 45F where you are, mine cost a fortune to run between 40F-25F because it has to defrost all the time. It works down to -15F or so though, and gets more efficient to an extent below that high humidity/frost window because it stops having to defrost every 30 mins. Since you are in Nevada maybe that's not an issue. Even so if I was only worried about heat I would probably look at something else, they are great for cooling, not so great for heating.

 

[TimeOrMoney]

In the small amount of experience with Senville units I've had they seem to have better made and easier to bend line sets than some others, but are overall not as high of quality as Pioneer or Mitsubishi. I personally would go with a Mitsubishi unit, then Pioneer, then all the Madea units like Mr.Cool, Senville, etc. The supplier after purchase support is something to look at as well, you can usually buy the same unit a bunch of places but not everyone will support you after the purchase, and parts can be hard to get for some units. Be sure and put a surge protector at the outside disconnect, the main boards on these things are really delicate.

This does not answer your question but just throwing it out there, mini-splits are not usually the best for heating, especially if it gets below about 45F where you are, mine cost a fortune to run between 40F-25F because it has to defrost all the time. It works down to -15F or so though, and gets more efficient to an extent below that high humidity/frost window because it stops having to defrost every 30 mins. Since you are in Nevada maybe that's not an issue. Even so if I was only worried about heat I would probably look at something else, they are great for cooling, not so great for heating.

I’m sn rngineer, so have done heat loss calcs and have a couple years records of high lows indoors and out at this seasonal cabin. I could put in a propane tank, but propane is about 3X the price at the same BTU. On the colder nights these units will still produce at 2-3 COP at the temps I’d maintain on cold noghts, so they’d still save money. This isn’t a -22 design area, more like 5. I might agree with you if I was in Montana and heated all winter.

BYUs are BTUs. Seems like many compare an oversized gas furnace which comes up to temperature quickly with a way lower BTU heat pump which really wants to run continuously. I’m totally against oversizing. Plus heat pumps are more environmentally friendly.

I also agree that Mitsubishi makes very good and super efficient heat pumps, but even their cheaper ones are so expensive you could buy 2 Chinese ones and still save money.

 

[WildBill]

I’m sn rngineer, so have done heat loss calcs and have a couple years records of high lows indoors and out at this seasonal cabin. I could put in a propane tank, but propane is about 3X the price at the same BTU. On the colder nights these units will still produce at 2-3 COP at the temps I’d maintain on cold noghts, so they’d still save money. This isn’t a -22 design area, more like 5. I might agree with you if I was in Montana and heated all winter.

BYUs are BTUs. Seems like many compare an oversized gas furnace which comes up to temperature quickly with a way lower BTU heat pump which really wants to run continuously. I’m totally against oversizing. Plus heat pumps are more environmentally friendly.

I also agree that Mitsubishi makes very good and super efficient heat pumps, but even their cheaper ones are so expensive you could buy 2 Chinese ones and still save money.

We usually use Pioneer in houses around here because they seem like the best cost/quality trade off. Sometimes Mitsubishi if the owner wants to pay for a premium setup. We almost always go a size up from the calcs because mini-splits can spool up and down, and its usually only a couple hundred more to be on the safe side.

I put a DIY Mr.Cool 24k unit in my shop a couple years ago and love it except its not great power wise at continuously low temps. But it was only around $1300 and I figure I can fix anything that breaks on it. I also have a $100 diesel air heater I use to supplement it that works really good, it puts out something like 22k BTUs on high and barely sips fuel. I fire it up when I am working in the shop and it blasts hot air about 20ft, like a giant hair dryer. Air comes out around 200F, its pretty neat for the money. Every part to rebuild it is like $35 total, so I just have a spare of everything in case it breaks.

When I replace my 20+ year old house AC next summer I am going with a Mitsubishi, don't want to risk that going out mid July when its 100F out and my wife killing me for going cheap.

 

[pcmeiners]

Check these out, few hundred cheaper than Mitsubishi

https://www.goodlifehvac.ca/images/Fujitsu_LZ_Series.pdf

"ASHP, a great site that evaluates heating performance,"

What site is this?

As to warranty coverage, almost no minisplit manufacturer covers labor, and most require a fully licensed contractor to verify the warranty issue, at your expense. It is more economical to purchase a new unit in most cases. In my case I have a EPA universal 608 so my Fujitsu units get a 10 year warranty, but I have 5 units any I only need parts, and I did not need instant repairs, the compressor is the same in all 5. In my case the warranty is worth something.

 

[TimeOrMoney]

Check these out, few hundred cheaper than Mitsubishi

https://www.goodlifehvac.ca/images/Fujitsu_LZ_Series.pdf

"ASHP, a great site that evaluates heating performance,"

What site is this?

As to warranty coverage, almost no minisplit manufacturer covers labor, and most require a fully licensed contractor to verify the warranty issue, at your expense. It is more economical to purchase a new unit in most cases. In my case I have a EPA universal 608 so my Fujitsu units get a 10 year warranty, but I have 5 units any I only need parts, and I did not need instant repairs, the compressor is the same in all 5. In my case the warranty is worth something.

The site is https://ashp.neep.org. Any unit that is AHRI rated is there. Took me a while to set up good searches, but it’s worth it as it show way more heating info than anywhere else.

I tried and passed some level one 608 practice tests, so I’ll probably pay for the test, just to pick up some additional knowledge. Don’t know if that level of cert would be acceptable to manufacturers for warranty purpose, but I could ask. it’s definitely inder 5 lbs refrigerant. As far as troubleshooting, I was an electronics service engineer in my youth and have much mechanical experience. So labor no problem for me, except I would hire someone if recovery was necessary, as I don’t have any of those tools.

Thanks for the link. The thing I love about the Japanese units is the outdoor units are typically way quieter. This particular one has much lower HSPF ratings than the ones I’ve been looking at, though. Fujitsu does make some ultra high efficiency ones, but they are quite expensive, like Mitsubishi.

 

[pcmeiners]

With NEEP you have to be wary of the data. Manufacturer supplied, never verified by NEEP or the government, (actually that is not true, NEEP did challenge (1) manufacturers data out of thousands so far), and data is often fudged.

 

[TimeOrMoney]

Good to know. I’ve seen some data that seems impossible; now I know why. I always verify the AHRI and sometimes Energy Star ratings, but knowing how many BTU at 17 or 5F is useful compared to 47F values.

 

[pcmeiners]

NEEP is useful if you maintain a healthy skepticism, and some manufactures are honest.

For a buyer it is difficult to make decisions as is, no less with manufactures not playing game properly.

Check out Carrier's claim to have a 42 SEER unit (by Midea). If you look up the certificate, it has basically no useful information. Try and get a price, if found it will be ridiculously high, lastly Fujitsu and Mitsubishi beat it's performance in ever way, so it can not live up to it's heat or cooling claims.

Like you, I find info that does not make sense or is impossible in quite a few certificates, I wish there was a way to make all manufacturers stick to standard testing with penalties for not adhering.

"Don’t know if that level of cert would be acceptable to manufacturers for warranty purpose,"

Fujitsu accepted my warranty registration on my 5 minisplits, they also gave me a 10 year, which is for licensed contractors. Also I found interesting , they removed the statement they would not honor warranties for web purchases, like many manufacturers stipulate. I bet state's attorney generals are giving that clause a going over, never sounded legal.

That it for today, I am off to get a great garlic pizza, better than the best in NYC.

 

[pcmeiners]

Timeormoney, one of the best sites for EPA 608 practice sites. Only found a few errors in the practice tests. You might as well go for the universal. Test is fairly easy to pass. At the place that proctored the test, I asked who passed the 608 universal, the proctor stated no one out of over 100 passed. Scared me enough I studied more than needed.

EPA 608 Practice Tests | HVAC Certification Practice Tests

"I also agree that Mitsubishi makes very good and super efficient heat pumps, but even their cheaper ones are so expensive you could buy 2 Chinese ones and still save money."

When I researched min-splits, Mitsubishi was not only more expensive for a standard unit in comparison to other brands with similar specs, they hit you for options which should come with the unit, such as a pan heater to stop ice buildup on the hyper heat models. Considering the support, energy efficiency and their low noise level, it hard to knock them. My Fujitsu units were over $600 cheaper, with higher efficiency, higher BTU output and no needed options for comparable units.

 

[ipgenie]

I have two minis, an 18k Pioneer and a 9k Senville. Both have been running for heat and cool for a couple of years now without any issue. I installed them myself and paid a local company to come pressure test and evacuate the lines so I could qualify for a rebate and warranty.

The Pioneer phone app is pretty good and reminds me when it's time to clean the filter. I just clean them both when I get the alert. I called Senville to ask some questions and their support was excellent. The Senville I have works with Alexa but they also have a different usb stick that works with their app. I don't have any experience with that.

I'm going to put another one in my shop office this summer and have ordered the Senville floor unit due to low headroom in the loft space. It was a slightly lower cost but I'd be happy with either manufacturer.

 

[fitter30]

I’m sn rngineer, so have done heat loss calcs and have a couple years records of high lows indoors and out at this seasonal cabin. I could put in a propane tank, but propane is about 3X the price at the same BTU. On the colder nights these units will still produce at 2-3 COP at the temps I’d maintain on cold noghts, so they’d still save money. This isn’t a -22 design area, more like 5. I might agree with you if I was in Montana and heated all winter.

BYUs are BTUs. Seems like many compare an oversized gas furnace which comes up to temperature quickly with a way lower BTU heat pump which really wants to run continuously. I’m totally against oversizing. Plus heat pumps are more environmentally friendly.

I also agree that Mitsubishi makes very good and super efficient heat pumps, but even their cheaper ones are so expensive you could buy 2 Chinese ones and still save money.

All hp design temp for btu sizing is 47°> Down to 17° they lose some and 5° units lose 1/3 or better. Hyper heat units are all not the same the best the last time i looked was
Fujitsu @-22° beat the others hands down.

 

[TimeOrMoney]

I have looked at the best Fujitsu mini splits and they are indeed very good, but over twice the cost of the senville SENA-09HF, which comes with a lineset and basepan heater AND does over 11,000 BTU heat at 5F. it also has an HSPF of 13, and one of the highest HSPF2s. It’s made by Midea, who is the largest mini-split manufacturer in the world.
I’ve done my homework. In another year, though, R32 based units will be even more efficient. Daikin has one already, but California and Nevada haven’t approved R32 Yet.

 

[TimeOrMoney]

I have two minis, an 18k Pioneer and a 9k Senville. Both have been running for heat and cool for a couple of years now without any issue. I installed them myself and paid a local company to come pressure test and evacuate the lines so I could qualify for a rebate and warranty.

The Pioneer phone app is pretty good and reminds me when it's time to clean the filter. I just clean them both when I get the alert. I called Senville to ask some questions and their support was excellent. The Senville I have works with Alexa but they also have a different usb stick that works with their app. I don't have any experience with that.

I'm going to put another one in my shop office this summer and have ordered the Senville floor unit due to low headroom in the loft space. It was a slightly lower cost but I'd be happy with either manufacturer.

Pioneer(made by Gree) is the other one I was looking at. Their ++ compressors (like the hyperheat) perform well in cold weather.

I’m probably going to have to buy the other wifi stick; why they include an Alexa limited one is beyond me.…

 

[ipgenie]

Pioneer(made by Gree) is the other one I was looking at. Their ++ compressors (like the hyperheat) perform well in cold weather.

I’m probably going to have to buy the other wifi stick; why they include an Alexa limited one is beyond me.…

My Pioneer produced all the heat we needed even when we had a week or two of -20F temps last winter. I didn't figure it would work so well but it didn't have any trouble keeping up.


Senville has the wifi sticks on their website but when I called to ask about mine, they shipped one to me for free. I was really impressed with their service.