Septic Advice Needed

[MaverickH1]

Hello all. My wife and I are building a 40'x52' shop all by ourselves. Before digging we mapped out the septic system and laid the building out so it would be at least 10' away from the septic system per the requests of the local health department.

The septic system was on the right side of the building, shown on the drawing to send lines from the distribution box perpendicular to the house until it turned 90 degrees to the drain field which ran parallel to the house. We made the workshop layout so that the front of it was parallel with the house, so the septic lines should have run evenly next to it.

Well, to make a long story short, the drawings were not correct. The lines actually angle out of the distribution box. I found this out while digging my back/right corner and breaking a pipe.

I'm trying to fully assess the situation, but it looks like the attached picture is the way the system ACTUALLY goes. The yellow line on the ground is the measuring tape which marks the path. Looks like the distribution box is located at that piece of rebar in front of the tree to the left.

So now I'm left with what I see are 3 choices:

1) Move the building - this would create a lot of problems for us.
2) Move the septic system - doable... MAYBE. But I don't want the project to wait for it. The septic system has the capacity for 3 bedrooms and at the moment it's just the two of us in the house. Capping off one of 5 or 6 drain field lines should be fine so that we can pour the concrete now.
3) Change the building foundation to miss this one pipe, possibly add extra bracing to this one column.

I have found nothing in actual code that requires this pipe to be 10' away from the building. At the moment, I'm leaning towards taking that one footer/column deeper so that the footer goes below the pipe and the pipe ultimately rests on top of the footer. I just don't know if there's any real concern of breaking that pipe with building/foundation horizontal loading.

In any case... I'm looking for ideas. We were hoping to pour concrete Tuesday, but it looks like that will have to be on hold again.

 

[gungatim]

can't you just move the drain line that is too close? cut it and put a Tee or elbow and move it over a few feet. would need to rent a trencher and re-do the rock and stuff but shouldn't take more than a day and a couple hundred bucks...

 

[MaverickH1]

can't you just move the drain line that is too close? cut it and put a Tee or elbow and move it over a few feet. would need to rent a trencher and re-do the rock and stuff but shouldn't take more than a day and a couple hundred bucks...

I'm hoping that's all we need. The health department seemed to believe any pipe had to be 10' away from any structure.

But not finding anything in code about it, I thought that maybe he was just saying 10' because that's what they want the major components' setback to be from buildings. So with this pipe going at an angle (there's at least two pipes side by side at the building column), it would be easy to divert them around the column.

I think I'd prefer to keep them on their line AND drop the footing of the column to miss them.

I plan on digging them up a little bit more and looking down them to see where they go. At this point, I trust the septic drawings very little.

I tried to rent a transmitter and receiver so I can put fish tape down the pipe and actually map it, but no one has one in this region that isn't rented out.

 

[forAK]

How many lines come off the distro box? How much would you lose if you cap that one off the 10' from the building?

 

[larry_g]

Not being able to see the whold drain field in relation to your new build makes this a guess...If that is one of the field lines and the only one in the area;

Is it dirty, like it is being used, or one of the ones that is probably not used?

If it is clean then I'd dig back up the line toward the distribution box and cap it off 10' from the building. You probably have 300+ feet of drain line and loosing 50' will not be noticed.

I would no way want a drain field close to my building, especially right against the footer. When the soil saturates the water/sewage comes up to the surface and you don't want that. Most of us work very hard to direct water away from our buildings, you don't want to pipe it in.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[MaverickH1]

If I trust the drawing, there are 6 lines from the distribution box. Two of them are side by side going across the column. Using the picture above, the second line is just to the right of the yellow measuring tape on the ground.

I'm thinking of capping it and burying it until the inspection, and then reconnecting it after the inspection so that it rests on top of the footer, then burying it all.

 

[Budman01]

pods at corner and clearing drain field and FLOATING FOUNDATION between.....done many time in wet lands

 

[MaverickH1]

Not being able to see the whold drain field in relation to your new build makes this a guess...If that is one of the field lines and the only one in the area;

Is it dirty, like it is being used, or one of the ones that is probably not used?

If it is clean then I'd dig back up the line toward the distribution box and cap it off 10' from the building. You probably have 300+ feet of drain line and loosing 50' will not be noticed.

I would no way want a drain field close to my building, especially right against the footer. When the soil saturates the water/sewage comes up to the surface and you don't want that. Most of us work very hard to direct water away from our buildings, you don't want to pipe it in.

lg
no neat sig line

I'll try to add a picture to this post with my phone. But it looks like this pipe might go as much as 18' past the building column and make a right turn before it turns into perforated pipe for the drain field. So the drain field does still appear to be at least 10' away from the building.

According to the drawing, there's 600' of drain field. 6 lines, 100' long.

I guess the main question I have... is whether anyone would have any reservations about having a sealed pipe resting on top of a footer? My gut is "no", since this is how drain pipe is done all the time.

I'll try to upload the picture shortly.

 

[MaverickH1]

Image of the septic drawing. The orange piece of paper is where the workshop was going to go, 10' to the left of the theoretical location of the distribution box.

 

[Toolfool]

Bottom line always comes down to : If an inspector is involved, you need to satisfy the inspector to get signed off. Sometimes an inspector has his/her 'interpretation' of the codes , and is not always based on common sense.

 

[Toolfool]

Another thought. Could the pipe you hit be a tightline directing your footing drains and/or downspouts out to the low end of your lot ?

 

[gungatim]

....I would no way want a drain field close to my building, especially right against the footer. When the soil saturates the water/sewage comes up to the surface and you don't want that. Most of us work very hard to direct water away from our buildings, you don't want to pipe it in.

lg
no neat sig line

if there is water/sewage coming to the surface, the drain field is not working. a proper drain field DRAINS, it does not pool or force water to the top. there should be NO sewage in the drainfield, the sewage stays in the septic tank to decompose. the length of the drain field, and # of drain lines is determined based on the perc test of the soil (how fast it drains) as well as the estimated flow from the occupancy of the home.

OP, another option is to cap that line and extend one of the other ones.

 

[bushmechanic]

You need to be looking at environmental regulations as well as building codes, as that's generally where a septic system falls in regard to regulation.

 

[Radix2]

It's not clear from your description if the Line in question is a perforated field line, a solid line from the dist box to a field line ..or the line from the tank to the dist box.

You have a lot of room there, use some 45s or 30s to get around the corner.

Do not under any circumstances put the actual field lines in on or against the foundation.

 

[isb cornbinder]

A visiting neighbour falls through the rotted cover on a septic tank. HELP! HELP! he calls. the owner rushed to the scene to see what happened . The visitor yells, "" I cant swim, HELP ME". The owner says, " Swimming ins easy, just go through the movements."

 

[bpjr]

The codes should be written somewhere but I called the health dept for setbacks. You just have to find out if its personal opinion of the agent or official code. If a line is too close you may be able to get a variance...in your case probably something over the line to make sure it doesn't get damaged. Also, in Florida it's a civil fine to dig or work on your drain field without a permit.

 

[MaverickH1]

It's not clear from your description if the Line in question is a perforated field line, a solid line from the dist box to a field line ..or the line from the tank to the dist box.

You have a lot of room there, use some 45s or 30s to get around the corner.

Do not under any circumstances put the actual field lines in on or against the foundation.

More digging this weekend revealed that there were 4 pipes all side by side here. 1 white, 3 were light green. All thin walled 4" PVC. 2 were broken, so I ended up cutting them and putting a temporary cap on them to keep them sealed. The plan is to pull them off and drain the system every now and then.

I am leaning towards the white line being the drain system for our foundations for the house, but there's no way to be sure since there are no cleanouts for that system nor do any of the gutters on the house go down into the ground.

I'm also leaning towards taking the foundation deeper and missing it all entirely. This will result in the white drain pipe being about 6" above the foundation footer, and 1' to the side of the foundation wall.

I might talk to my structural engineer and see if I can drive rebar into the ground on that column footer to give it more support in horizontal loading so it doesn't try to load the pipes that are so close. There's a solution out there.

Gotta be.

 

[kd3pc]

I'm also leaning towards taking the foundation deeper and missing it all entirely. This will result in the white drain pipe being about 6" above the foundation footer, and 1' to the side of the foundation wall.

Still way too close the building...in the event you have a problem, your only choice will be to hand dig a LOT, or abandon and move it elsewhere...which looks to be a problem on your size lot.

In VA, the county health department will have the say so, and they base it on things not related to garage building, and they really don't care. Irritate them too much and they will tag the system....and revoke your occupancy. They will not look kindly on shortening or dead-ending things...for any reason. You don't get to have an opinion on the septic design or placement once they are involved.

 

[MaverickH1]

Still way too close the building...in the event you have a problem, your only choice will be to hand dig a LOT, or abandon and move it elsewhere...which looks to be a problem on your size lot.

In VA, the county health department will have the say so, and they base it on things not related to garage building, and they really don't care. Irritate them too much and they will tag the system....and revoke your occupancy. They will not look kindly on shortening or dead-ending things...for any reason. You don't get to have an opinion on the septic design or placement once they are involved.

I'm having a hard time getting a straight answer out of people, but WHY is it too close to the building?

Drain pipes all come out of buildings. Drain pipes run along side of buildings all the time. Why is this special?

Is a different kind of pipe used while alongside the building that has more structural integrity or something like that?

I haven't found any answers, and beyond what could be the personal opinion of the health department guy, I can't find any numbers to suggest I'd be building against any kind of code.

I've looked everywhere. But yes, if it is a problem I'll have to dig it back up.

The way the land is laid out, the building is still not close enough to the drain fields to be an issue.

 

[kd3pc]

I'm having a hard time getting a straight answer out of people, but WHY is it too close to the building?

Drain pipes all come out of buildings. Drain pipes run along side of buildings all the time. Why is this special?

Is a different kind of pipe used while alongside the building that has more structural integrity or something like that?

I haven't found any answers, and beyond what could be the personal opinion of the health department guy, I can't find any numbers to suggest I'd be building against any kind of code.

I've looked everywhere. But yes, if it is a problem I'll have to dig it back up.

The way the land is laid out, the building is still not close enough to the drain fields to be an issue.

For some reason, the collective WE, is aghast at dealing with sewage. That translated in to onerous regulations about what we can do with it, what we do to treat it, and so on.

Sewage, beyond the yuck factor is quite amenable to the technology of the septic system and how it works. BUT, the great american way, it needs to be dealt with to an exponential level and built to the MAX that the house can throw at it, regardless of the reality. Thus the regs we have in place today.

Most of VA requires 10' buffer from any part of the system for no good reason, other than the COV Health Department says so. And it needs to have X capacity for X bathrooms or bedrooms and so on. Then a whole new set of rules for Engineered systems and so on.

Just passing on 1st hand experience with dealing with septic systems in the commonwealth.

bests

 

[csp]

More digging this weekend revealed that there were 4 pipes all side by side here. 1 white, 3 were light green. All thin walled 4" PVC. 2 were broken, so I ended up cutting them and putting a temporary cap on them to keep them sealed. The plan is to pull them off and drain the system every now and then.

You capped the lines exiting the distribution box that go to the drain field? If so, that's not smart at all.


The problem with re-routing lines is you're dealing with slope over a certain length. Change the overall length and you may have too little or too much slope.

Sounds like you need to deal with a local, licensed septic installer who is familiar with your jurisdictions requirements. Possibly the original installer, whose name should be on the as-built drawing.

 

[rnscustom]

Fix everything before they see it and cover it up , here you'd be talking thousands , engineers , and tons of paperwork . Fix it right . The big issue with being too close to a structure is seepage into the foundation and maybe into the living space . If the plan shows it away from the foundation enough I'd close my eyes and build away . That's if there is no basement .
.

 

[rnscustom]

I wouldn't let the pipes run under it , it needs air above it to function correctly

 

[csp]

I wouldn't let the pipes run under it , it needs air above it to function correctly

That depends on which pipes they are. It doesn't appear to be the perforated drain pipes, but the distribution lines to them.

 

[MaverickH1]

You capped the lines exiting the distribution box that go to the drain field? If so, that's not smart at all.


The problem with re-routing lines is you're dealing with slope over a certain length. Change the overall length and you may have too little or too much slope.

Sounds like you need to deal with a local, licensed septic installer who is familiar with your jurisdictions requirements. Possibly the original installer, whose name should be on the as-built drawing.

I plugged the foundation drain and empty it every other day, not much rain and not much water coming out. I plugged one of the 6 (from memory) lines that goes to the drain field. Haven't emptied it yet because I don't want piss water all over me at the moment. The septic system is rated for at least 3 people to occupy the house (3 BR on the permit), but it is only my wife and I in the house at the moment. So plugging one of the lines shouldn't cause any problems as long as that drain can handle the static pressure from being plugged, as far as I can tell.

The immediate risk that caused me to plug was the threat of solids getting into these systems which would certainly clog them. Plugging them was more about keeping things out than keeping things in.

The plan tonight is to go get materials to reconnect them. But I'll disconnect and plug them and bury them for the inspection, and then reconnect after concrete is poured.

Fix everything before they see it and cover it up , here you'd be talking thousands , engineers , and tons of paperwork . Fix it right . The big issue with being too close to a structure is seepage into the foundation and maybe into the living space . If the plan shows it away from the foundation enough I'd close my eyes and build away . That's if there is no basement .
.

Correct, no basement. This will just be going by one part of the building (this column has the lightest load of any of the columns since it's a corner column) just before there's a nice and steady downhill slope behind the building.

I appreciate the comments!