I bought a house a year ago. The septic was inspected as part of the purchase process (I paid something like $600 for pump out and inspection.) My septic tank is now full for the second time in a year. We use septic safe paper (mix of 1 or 2 ply.) It's just 2 of us in a house that was originally built about 40 years ago as a 3 bedroom 2 bath home. The first time it backed up we had rain for weeks and the ground stayed saturated so I thought all the rains was the reason for the backup. We've been dry for a couple of weeks and I have now backed up again. My lot is fairly wooded with some very mature trees. Are there any chemicals or things I should try to get this system to work as designed? There is not much room for a new drain field so I am hoping some drain field chemical and maybe changing to 1 ply septic safe paper vs. the 2 ply stuff will help. Are there any tests that can show exactly what the problem is?
Septic / Drain Field issues
- Thread starter mikec35
- Start date
larry4406
Well-known member
Check your toilets to make sure they are not internally overflowing in the toilet tank. My septic alarm started going off repeatedly due high level and this was the cause. My house has 4 toilets and oddly all 4 were mis-adjusted and the water in the tank was silently entering the down tube non stop. After adjusting them per the level line on the tube, has not recurred.
Sorry can't help on the chemical side of things.
The toilet overfill issue came out of nowhere but did happen after I had installed a new well bladder tank and readjusted the well pressure to a higher set point. I think the higher pressure caused the float fill error somehow.
Sorry can't help on the chemical side of things.
The toilet overfill issue came out of nowhere but did happen after I had installed a new well bladder tank and readjusted the well pressure to a higher set point. I think the higher pressure caused the float fill error somehow.
The exit baffle in old flat/rectangular concrete tanks rot off with age and allow solids to enter into the leech fields and a back up happens.
Most service people just dig up the center cap for pump out and don't check the exit baffle. Some tanks have a baffle on the entrance end too.
Dig up the exit end of the tank and check the baffle, it's a separate/tapered piece that drops in from the top.
Pull it out if it's still there, to see if the end has rotted off.
Build an elbow out of PVC pipe that's a slip fit into the exit pipe.
Tie a rope around it, in case you drop it, wiggle it thru the baffle hole, slip it into the exit pipe with the other end of the elbow facing down.
I put a patio block over the baffle hole before I re-bury the tank...
If you don't have a concrete tank like that...never mind
Edit: do all this AFTER a pump-out
Most service people just dig up the center cap for pump out and don't check the exit baffle. Some tanks have a baffle on the entrance end too.
Dig up the exit end of the tank and check the baffle, it's a separate/tapered piece that drops in from the top.
Pull it out if it's still there, to see if the end has rotted off.
Build an elbow out of PVC pipe that's a slip fit into the exit pipe.
Tie a rope around it, in case you drop it, wiggle it thru the baffle hole, slip it into the exit pipe with the other end of the elbow facing down.
I put a patio block over the baffle hole before I re-bury the tank...
If you don't have a concrete tank like that...never mind
Edit: do all this AFTER a pump-out
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yep this
Put some food coloring in the tank and don't use that toilet for a while.
If the dye shows up in the bowl, you know you have a leaking/mis-adjusted tank valve.
jmo,
Pluribus
Well-known member
Septic tanks are always "full" when operating normally. In tank things to check are the inlet baffle & outlet baffle. If things are backing up in the tank, that's overfilled. If you see that the level of the effluent in the tank is above the outlet of the tank, then the problem is not the tank, it's farther downstream. Can you dig up your distribution box and see what's happening there? Try running water from a garden hose into each of the outlets from the distribution box to see if it flows without backing up to see if a leg or legs of the drainfield are blocked.
Treatment chemicals are snake oil. Septic systems operate on bacteria that come out of your digestive system. That's all they need. If you put a bunch of other stuff in there like chemicals or undigested food from garbage disposals, then that's another issue.
Treatment chemicals are snake oil. Septic systems operate on bacteria that come out of your digestive system. That's all they need. If you put a bunch of other stuff in there like chemicals or undigested food from garbage disposals, then that's another issue.
kd3pc
Well-known member
+1 on pluribus suggestion.
Especially on the chemicals...they often destroy the bacteria and make things worse.
I think you have one or more legs that are past their prime. Not sure how old the house is or what type of system you have? Age would help, as the new engineered systems have a lot more pieces to deal with.
Especially on the chemicals...they often destroy the bacteria and make things worse.
I think you have one or more legs that are past their prime. Not sure how old the house is or what type of system you have? Age would help, as the new engineered systems have a lot more pieces to deal with.
machsnell
Well-known member
+2 pluribus
Find your distribution box w a probe. Will be close to the tank typically. Open it up and that will tell you whats up w fields.
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Find your distribution box w a probe. Will be close to the tank typically. Open it up and that will tell you whats up w fields.
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I have a clean out about 3 -5 feet from the inlet on the tank. When the tank was last pumped we discovered it has no inlet baffle. I'll see if I can find the distribution box. Typically how far from the tank is it located? How deep? Thanks
jkeyser14
Well-known member
If the tank baffles are in good shape you can try cleaning the drain field's soil pores using a heavy treatment of sodium percarbonate. You mix it with hot water and dump it in the leach field. It loosens up debris that was clogging pores in the soil. It isn't a permanent fix, but can extend the life of the drain field by a couple years.
PassnThru
Well-known member
If you do have a problem - good luck finding a qualified person to fix it. I've had a new field installed and I still have issues. I've had the distribution tank replaced and still have issues. Granted - a lot of my issues come from the maple tree that is close to the tank but I've gotten so many different stories from so many different people that I've learned to deal with the occasional slow drain issue.
I have a toilet at the end of the run - it acts as my early warning signal. Directly behind it is the vent to the roof. So if things back up - the toilet lets me know. Currently, we can do whatever we want to without issue - but when the washer dumps it will sometimes gurgle the toilet. Not always though which is the really confusing part.
If you are literally backing up in the sense that things aren't draining then you have a problem and it will only get worse.
You mentioned that you have a lot of trees - tree roots WILL get into your system and cause you problems. No matter what toilet paper you use it will get stuck in the roots.
I have a toilet at the end of the run - it acts as my early warning signal. Directly behind it is the vent to the roof. So if things back up - the toilet lets me know. Currently, we can do whatever we want to without issue - but when the washer dumps it will sometimes gurgle the toilet. Not always though which is the really confusing part.
If you are literally backing up in the sense that things aren't draining then you have a problem and it will only get worse.
You mentioned that you have a lot of trees - tree roots WILL get into your system and cause you problems. No matter what toilet paper you use it will get stuck in the roots.
machsnell
Well-known member
Typically the distribution box is located at the top of the fields. Your site plan should show the general location and direction of the fields in you system.
Take a metal probe rod and start probing the ground until you find the box. Easier when the ground is wet.
Also if you dowse it makes quick work of finding the drain lines.
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Take a metal probe rod and start probing the ground until you find the box. Easier when the ground is wet.
Also if you dowse it makes quick work of finding the drain lines.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
bad_idea
Well-known member
When I bought my house I had a septic inspection completed. As part of the inspection the contractor located the distribution box and opened it up. He also walked the drain field and opened the septic tank. I had him sketch all of that on the inspection form. I have a decent sketch now that I can locate the entire system from. Folks that work with the systems regularly can find the dist box easy.
Pluribus
Well-known member
Haven't noticed anyone mentioning that your health department or whatever agency has jurisdiction will have (in lots of areas of the country) what's called an "as built." This is the original septic design that was used for permitting. Both of my houses that had them had the as built available on the county's website. Dimensions of the septic components weren't perfect, but it sure helped me decide where to start looking.
Both of my places had the d-box located about 10' from the septic tank, but the drainfield legs diverged pretty quickly after that. If your drainfield was farther away from the tank (typically close to the house) it would make more sense (as machsnell said) to have the d-box closer to the drainfield; I would think. That way there would be fewer long, separate pipe runs to get to the drainfield.
Both of my places had the d-box located about 10' from the septic tank, but the drainfield legs diverged pretty quickly after that. If your drainfield was farther away from the tank (typically close to the house) it would make more sense (as machsnell said) to have the d-box closer to the drainfield; I would think. That way there would be fewer long, separate pipe runs to get to the drainfield.
jmarkwolf
Well-known member
Septic fields can sometimes develop an impermiable layer, kinda like jello, that the water can't penetrate into the soil below. Happened to us over a decade ago. Thought we were going to have to replace our field 15 year old field.
A neighbor suggested a company called Septic Medic. Their guy came over, marked the edges of the field by sinking a long pole into the yard, feeling for the gravel bed. Then he walked to the center, sunk the long pole again, and all you could hear was glug, glug, glug, glug, glug.
All the water trapped above the impermiable layer drained into that single hole punched by the pole into the sand below, confirming the existence of the jello layer. He came back later with a big portable air compressor, connected to the same pole by a flexible hose. He sunk the pole on a 1foot by1foot grid and blasted a shot of air pulverizing the jello layer. Then he connected an aeration pump (kinda like a big aquarium pump) to the second stage of the septic tank which injects oxygen into the slurry, further cleaning the water before it distributes into field.
The septic field has not given us any trouble since, and it's been another 12 or 14 years since.
Cost us $3000 instead of $10,000, with no tear up to the yard and irrigation system, etc.
A phone call might save you big bucks.
You're welcome.
A neighbor suggested a company called Septic Medic. Their guy came over, marked the edges of the field by sinking a long pole into the yard, feeling for the gravel bed. Then he walked to the center, sunk the long pole again, and all you could hear was glug, glug, glug, glug, glug.
All the water trapped above the impermiable layer drained into that single hole punched by the pole into the sand below, confirming the existence of the jello layer. He came back later with a big portable air compressor, connected to the same pole by a flexible hose. He sunk the pole on a 1foot by1foot grid and blasted a shot of air pulverizing the jello layer. Then he connected an aeration pump (kinda like a big aquarium pump) to the second stage of the septic tank which injects oxygen into the slurry, further cleaning the water before it distributes into field.
The septic field has not given us any trouble since, and it's been another 12 or 14 years since.
Cost us $3000 instead of $10,000, with no tear up to the yard and irrigation system, etc.
A phone call might save you big bucks.
You're welcome.
CraigStu
Well-known member
You could go the the county permits department and ask if they have a diagram of you septic system on file. The did in our previous house in Manassas Va. I was surprised it was actually hand drawn. Also, if you county has a GIS system that gives over head pictures of areas with all the lot lines drawn in, those pics will often show the drainfield. Not so much the tanks, but all fingers of the field usually have either greener grass over them or the surface has sunken a little which is visible in an overhead view.
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58Yeoman
Well-known member
Copper sulfate will kill tree roots, but might also kill the trees. I don't know how much it would take, though. Our county didn't have any info on our septic system which was installed in '79.
I just searched the County website. I see where a septic permit was pulled in 2004 but it doesn't show any plans. I'll reach out to the county and see what they have. I also found the name of the builder, I'll check and see if they are still in business and can provide any info. The system has not backed up into the house, it just goes real slow when overloaded. I have no depressions in the yard, no green, grassy areas that would indicate where the drain field is. I remember the first time the tank was drained the tech had to bust up all the sludge at the very top of the tank. I suppose if it gets bad enough I can do this as well to help get things going again. Do they make a collar or something that I can place on top of my septic tank lid so I don't have to dig 2 feet down every time it backs up?
Identaltech
Well-known member
This is what I have for mine. Easy enough access but dont have to worry about anyone fall in. The company up the road who makes culverts made the cement collar to raise the cover to ground level.
I still have the cement cover on top of the tanks
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I still have the cement cover on top of the tanks
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Bruce 993 SEA
Well-known member
I have seen problems from folks using laundry soaps and other chemicals that cause this "jello layer". I think it is a waxy substance from the soap. Also, lots of bleach kills your biotics in the tank.
Once you get it repaired, consider what goes down the drain and what it does to the system.
I have seen older homes on septic systems that have the laundry and kitchen drains (grey water) going to a different tank and drain field. This avoids messing up the biological balance of the black water tank.
I don't think they do that any more.
cantupshift
Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2015
- Messages
- 17
Health department should have a drawing on file if that new.
My wife insists on using bleach to sanitize the sinks after working with raw meat. A cup or two a week probably.
I put rid-x in at the first day of the month, and septic shock on the 14th.
If you forego mowing for a few weeks where you think the field is the lines should show up. Especially in dry or no rain weather. If you compare it to your drawing it may give you a clue to blockage or state of the system.
My wife insists on using bleach to sanitize the sinks after working with raw meat. A cup or two a week probably.
I put rid-x in at the first day of the month, and septic shock on the 14th.
If you forego mowing for a few weeks where you think the field is the lines should show up. Especially in dry or no rain weather. If you compare it to your drawing it may give you a clue to blockage or state of the system.
kd3pc
Well-known member
the bleach kills the bacteria....simple.
You need to just buy the cheapest raw yeast and add that instead of rid-ex and shock. It is a sewage treatment system, not a swimming pool. And give it time to work.
larry4406
Well-known member
Google Earth your address and use the time flyover button at the top to go back in time. Maybe get lucky with a construction flyover or green lines in the yard.
We don't have a garbage disposal, unless you count the Chihuahua. We have used probably 1 gallon of bleach in a year. Will stop the bleach. I was thinking of trying to find some septic safe laundry soap, if there is such a thing.
larry4406
Well-known member
Our septic contractor says rule of 3P’s - pee, poop, and paper. That’s it.
They also say zero anti bacteria soaps and only liquid detergents. Apparently the granular detergents (laundry and dishwasher) don’t dissolve fully.
glider
Well-known member
Is it just too much water, a failing field? When you pump tank out, is the field water back feeding into your tank?
Farrier
Well-known member
Google septic tank plastic lid. Lot's of options for you. My tank is almost 3' ft down so I modified the opening the last time I had to dig it up.
HenryAZ
MEMBER EMERITUS
The first time ours was pumped, I attached a piece of 12gauge wire (stolen from Romex cable) to the handle of both lids. The wires stick up out of the ground a few inches, making it easy to relocate the lids for the next time.
Bretny
Well-known member
My inlaws have a failing leach field. They installed an airator in the tank and it seams to be helping quite a bit.
If they pumped your tank and the solids where at the outlet you prob plugged your field. Not much you can do with that.
If they pumped your tank and the solids where at the outlet you prob plugged your field. Not much you can do with that.
larry4406
Well-known member
Interesting...
I’ve limited septic knowledge. To that end, traditional septic systems are anerobic (oxygen reduced). Some of the recent septic fields I had installed at our new homes were aerobic types with the air pump aerator you mentioned. It’s my understanding that the oxygen rich environment promotes a different species of bacteria to be dominant and results in cleaner discharge to the field. These systems had special 3-compartment tanks. The first chamber was for solids settling which weired to the middle aerobic chamber which weired to the treated section which went off to the field.
I wonder if your in-laws success is due to cleaner effluent or the now new dominant bacteria species cleaning up the plugged/failed areas?
These systems were very very expensive and required due to the properties being in a critical Chesapeake bay watershed.
zak77
Well-known member
My suggestion is hire a local pumping company to come out pump the tank and try to figure out where to problem is. They will usually be able to tell you where your issue is since they do this everyday for the living. If the leach field is clogged, you can try a high grade hydrogen peroxide to get the ground to leach again but it's a chance. Hopefully the water table isnt rising causing the leach field to not be able to do it's job. That will require a raised system.
I highly recommend getting a riser for the tank so it doesnt have to be dug up everytime. Plastic ones can be bought for a little over $100.
Every engineer, septic system pumper, and Board of Health agent i've come across recommends against those "rid-x" type additives. They recommend limiting bleach but some is acceptable.
I highly recommend getting a riser for the tank so it doesnt have to be dug up everytime. Plastic ones can be bought for a little over $100.
Every engineer, septic system pumper, and Board of Health agent i've come across recommends against those "rid-x" type additives. They recommend limiting bleach but some is acceptable.
Bruce 993 SEA
Well-known member
Once you get it figured out and working, another item to avoid in the future is liquid fabric softener...it is basically a wax.
Hope you get it figured out!
Hope you get it figured out!
My wife inherited a small country house a few years ago and it had renters in it. We also inherited frequent calls from them about the septic "backing up." It was a nightmare to get sorted. What we found is that the tank and field were in an area dense with large trees. The pipes, even in the leach field grid, were crammed with roots and were broken in too many places to count. Even the concrete tank had many roots inside the box. It was unfixable, only recourse a new everything, tank, gravel and pipe field, etc. Lowest bid $15,000.
Luckily, the renters asked to be released from the lease and neighbors contacted us to buy the place. They knew about the septic. Done.
Luckily, the renters asked to be released from the lease and neighbors contacted us to buy the place. They knew about the septic. Done.
steveo1o9
Well-known member
Find a good septic installer that also does inspections. They will locate all parts of the system and should check the tank, d-box, and core your leach field to see the condition of gravel media. Some companies even offer cameraing the pipes. There are many factors that could be creating your issues; root intrusion, failed pipe, failed lateral, clogged d-box, excessive flows, grease buildup, etc. There is no miracle chemical that will fix your system, you need to get a shovel and get dirty or pay someone else to do so.
To start dig up both the inlet and outlet side of your tank, most likely you will have access to both sides of the tank. Inspect the baffles as already stated, concrete likes to crumble when it gets old, it is very common to need to repair a baffle. Then you need to locate your distribution box and inspect in there. Look for any signs of clogs, roots, etc. If there are any solids or grease in your d-box then you have tank issues and solids are getting into your field which will cause failure. Get a garden hose and run it in the d-box and watch where the water goes. You should get a balanced flow to each lateral. If not balanced then you are overloading those laterals receiving more flow and it may cause premature failure.
To start dig up both the inlet and outlet side of your tank, most likely you will have access to both sides of the tank. Inspect the baffles as already stated, concrete likes to crumble when it gets old, it is very common to need to repair a baffle. Then you need to locate your distribution box and inspect in there. Look for any signs of clogs, roots, etc. If there are any solids or grease in your d-box then you have tank issues and solids are getting into your field which will cause failure. Get a garden hose and run it in the d-box and watch where the water goes. You should get a balanced flow to each lateral. If not balanced then you are overloading those laterals receiving more flow and it may cause premature failure.
Bretny
Well-known member
Lol sell the house when something goes wrong.
We've cut back on our water usage and and are limiting ourselves to one wash load per day and we seem to be doing ok. We were using 2 ply septic safe paper so we will try 1 ply name brand paper. We use liquid laundry and dish washer soap, going to make sure we aren't using too much soap. No bleach and no fabric softener. Being use to being on city water all my life I am going to try to reduce our usage and see how it goes. Not going to pump the tank just yet.
DTE
Well-known member
We had some trouble with ours a few years back, so we dug up some of the field line and it was really sludged up with almost a black grease. This system was about 12 years old. We repaired the line and closed it back up and I pour about 10 ounces a month of a enzyme designed for septic tanks in the toilet every month and its been about 3 years and you can see the green line fields again. Here is a link to the bacteria for septic tank. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WGRRHHO/?tag=atomicindus08-20
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johnnyradiant
Well-known member
An 'out of the blue' landlord job is usually not very fun for most unless they already work in or very close to that kinda work. Best way to get the inheritance in that case is to convert it to cash.
HoosierMark
Well-known member
Have you checked fo a screen on the outlet pipe. My septic is four years old and came with one. Last year it was clogged. I pulled it out, sprayed it off and that solved it. I did need to unplug inlet as toilet paper created a dam. Also I have plastic riser on both sides of the tank. Very handy I remove about 10 bolts and I have easy access. I highly recommend them.