Septic electrical: breaker for pump keeps tripping

[Uncle Ben]

Hello, I have an aerobic septic system and the breaker for the water pump keeps tripping. The strange thing is that when I flip the breaker back on, if the tank is full enough, the pump will engage and the sprinklers will spray for at least 30 minutes and it will function like normal, but after 30-60 minutes of pumping, the breaker will trip.

It seems that if there was a short or some electrical connection issue, then the breaker would not stay on at all, and the pump would not be able to run for such a long time before shutting off again.

This has been going on for about a week, and then a 2nd issue started, which is that the alarm went off. I had assumed the alarm was due to a full tank, due to the tripped pump breaker, so the tank got too full and triggered the alarm, but now the separate breaker for the High Water Alarm is tripping as well. In fact, if I reset the pump breaker and the HWA breaker, the pump breaker will stay on for a while and the pump works for a while before it trips again, but the HWA breaker will immediately trip again right after resetting it.

I tried replacing just the pump breaker so far, but that did not make any change.

Any ideas??

 

[LOW1]

Is there a partial clog in the pump or something in the tank that occasionally obstructs the pump or float?

Has the pump been running more frequently than usual?

 

[PCustoms]

Your pump is dying or otherwise overloaded, time to replace it.

 

[pattenp]

You need to put an amp clamp on the power line and observe the amp load as the pump runs. You'll most likely see the amps increase as the pump heats up which eventually trips the breaker. If so, time for a new pump.

 

[jack stand]

....or a tired breaker?
The cheapest place to start if it's not a short or wiring problem.

 

[rcktpwrd]

Is the pump and alarm plugged into an outlet in a box near the tank?

I have a system with an effluent pump for the leach field and the plug and outlet arced and melted causing the pump to stop working. Not sure of the pump went bad and over amped the circuit or just a loose plug. Had the pump replaced and they just used the other socket in the outlet... I'll have to replace the outlet at some point.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Here are some pics of the panel, just in case this helps answer any questions above. I will test with amp clamp on the power going to the pump.

 

[The Cobbler]

...or a tired breaker?
The cheapest place to start if it's not a short or wiring problem.

At the volunteer warehouse I replaced a water heater with a larger one. the replacement had a 1500w element , the original was 1440 watt . basically the same size.
the breaker would trip every day or 2 days with the new heater.
when I say new, it was new to me but used, a buddy gave me from a house trailer he bought & did't need, so he gave it to me. we had no history on it . I was going to replace the element, but tried another breaker first . that corrected the issue

 

[dcg9381]

Your pump is dying or otherwise overloaded, time to replace it.

That wiring looks semi-****-tastic. I'd start by making sure all the connections are secured. I don't see any obvious overheating, but it's wired like an RV.

A buddy in the septic business told me that he really likes putting filters on septic pumps... I've never had a septic pump with a filter, but it could be something as simple as having some obstruction over the pump.

I agree with the clamp meter measuring amps.

When is the last time the tank was pumped? Our lower shower on a <2 year old septic system started to fill up, I immediately went out to the septic tank and the problem was pretty obvious.. One of the kids putting things they shouldn't into the toilet. Want to teach your kids a lesson, make them clean out a septic tank.

 

[Uncle Ben]

That wiring looks semi-****-tastic. I'd start by making sure all the connections are secured. I don't see any obvious overheating, but it's wired like an RV.

A buddy in the septic business told me that he really likes putting filters on septic pumps... I've never had a septic pump with a filter, but it could be something as simple as having some obstruction over the pump.

I agree with the clamp meter measuring amps.

When is the last time the tank was pumped? Our lower shower on a <2 year old septic system started to fill up, I immediately went out to the septic tank and the problem was pretty obvious.. One of the kids putting things they shouldn't into the toilet. Want to teach your kids a lesson, make them clean out a septic tank.

Yeah, I can't disagree with you there! I was thinking it had a little bit of "rats nest" quality when I first opened it up.

I've never removed or replaced a septic pump before, but I'll look into that and perhaps I can pull up the pump to inspect it to see if there are any obstructions to inhibit suction/flow. The pressure at the sprinkler heads certainly looks as strong as ever.

To answer your question about having the tank pumped...we have been in the house 3 1/2 years and have not had the tank pumped yet.

If I do end up needing to replace the pump, does anyone have a recommended pump brand/model? We are a family of 5 in a 2.5 bath house.

 

[larry4406]

I recommend you go to your County Health Department and have them pull the file for your house.

Around my area, the Heath Departments have records that go back 40+ years.

When your system was final inspected/permitted, they should have documented the make and model of the pump, the dose rate, timer settings etc. Valuable information.

In all the counties near me, copies of these records are free to the property owner.

Yours being a “non-traditional” non-leach field design tells me it’s somewhat modern, meaning the chance of records recovery are higher.

Our septic contractors primarily use Zoeller pumps. These are spec’d by the system designer and actual performance is checked at the final inspection.

 

[CraigStu]

Seems to me that 3.5 years indicates pump the tank even if you were not having problems.

 

[Uncle Ben]

I tested the amps with a clamp meter on the hot line at the breaker. When I first flipped the breaker on, it showed 11.43A. After running for about 5 minutes it went down very slightly to about 11.3A.

After the pump was running for about 7 minutes or so, the breaker tripped, but the amps had not climbed up any higher than they had started at, and actually stayed slightly lower than it started, around 11.25~11.3A

Does anyone have any other ideas of what could be causing this?
The breaker for the alarm keeps tripping as well, but in the case of the alarm breaker, it trips almost immediately after resetting it, so there must be something going on that is related to the pump, but not simply that the alarm is triggered due to the pump not working...rather, the alarm breaker will not even remain on for virtually any length of time.

By the way, I will be having someone out to pump the tank sometime soon.

 

[dcg9381]

What size is the breaker? They're basically rated to 80% of "size" for continuous use, so if you've got a 15A breaker, running at 11-12A is right on the line for continuous operation. If you've got a 20A breaker, 11-12A is fine.

Does the clamp have a "max" function?

But I think there is a major clue in that the alarm breaker is also tripping.. Indicating a wiring issue. That alarm circuit is designed to NOT be dependent on what the pump does.

I'm assuming none of this is GFCI and it's older?

 

[PCustoms]

What size is the breaker? They're basically rated to 80% of "size" for continuous use, so if you've got a 15A breaker, running at 11-12A is right on the line for continuous operation. If you've got a 20A breaker, 11-12A is fine.

Does the clamp have a "max" function?

But I think there is a major clue in that the alarm breaker is also tripping.. Indicating a wiring issue. That alarm circuit is designed to NOT be dependent on what the pump does.

I'm assuming none of this is GFCI and it's older?

He posted pics, it's a 20A breaker and not GFCI....

@Uncle Ben have you verified voltage at this panel?

 

[jade97]

I had a similar issue with mine. The installer did not use a box for the wire connections in the tank, where the pump and floats are. The corrosive environment deteriorated the connections. The pump would run, then when it would switch off, the pipes where the wires were zip tied, would jerk around and the ground would short out the power wires and kick the breaker.

Reset the breaker and it would pump again, then repeat.

I paid to have the tanks pumped (it was due time anyway) and the septic company fixed all the connections and installed them in a sealed box. No issues since.

 

[Uncle Ben]

@PCustoms I have not verified the voltage. Just to confirm: do you mean the amount of voltage on the pump circuit?

 

[Uncle Ben]

@jade97 Thanks for that input. I can certainly tell you that all the wiring connections inside the last tank are all with wire nuts and electrical tape and none of them are inside a box. This is the way it was when I bought the house, so it looks like it's time to clean all this up...and pump the tank.

 

[PCustoms]

@PCustoms I have not verified the voltage. Just to confirm: do you mean the amount of voltage on the pump circuit?

Yes.

It's probably not the root cause, but I'm curious if you have a massive voltage drop when the pumps is running.

My money is on you've got a wiring mess in the tank. Pump it out and plan on rewiring

 

[red61cj5]

"Flushable" wipes causing partial blockage of pump intake?

 

[Uncle Ben]

Update: for one reason or another, before I did any further work on the system, it suddenly stopped tripping and has been working like normal again for the past week. I'm sure it's just a matter of time, so of course I will still fix the connections and box them to avoid further issue, and hopefully the renewed connections will solve it.

By the way, where do you guys like to buy your septic chlorine tablets? They are MUCH more expensive than the last time I bought them 3 years ago.

 

[PCustoms]

I've never heard of a septic that uses chlorine?

 

[gizardlizard]

That’s a new one to me too. Never heard of such a thing.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Septic chlorine tablets are only used on "aerobic" septic systems. There is a tube that holds a few tablets down in the 2nd or 3rd tank, which disinfects the wastewater and kills bacteria that may be harmful to humans, since the wastewater is sprayed back onto the lawn with the sprinklers.

As far as I know, you can choose to not use chlorine tablets in the system and it will still function fully since the chlorine is not applied to the first tank, but the tablets do help with the wastewater smell as well.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Chlorine has gone thru the roof, due to a plant that makes it here domestically was damaged and closed.
One reason I switched my pool to salt water.

Doubt you will find it much cheaper than what you have seen...