Septic field questions

[NBraun]

I figure some guys here probably have experience with this..

We live on an acreage, and recently our current leach field failed. Ive had 3 different installers come out, And recieved three different opinions. I'm now more confused than before.

To preface, our county does not require soil tests for septic installation.(not sure if that matters or not)

First contractor recommended replacing the whole system with a new poly tank and using infiltrators. He said he doesn't like connecting to old concrete tanks, because he's seen them crumble when trying to connect the new field to them. Quote was $11,500

Second contractor recommended to just connect a new leach field. He was going to use infiltrators as well. Quote was $4,500

Third contractor recommended just a new field. He would use drain pipe and gravel. He said infiltraters were not as reliable. Quote was $4,500

All the quotes came back very similar. It just comes back to materials and method used. Thoughts?

 

[Hooked]

What failed? How old is your system?
Our system is 47 years old and doing just fine. When I had the tanks pumped several years back they also ran a high pressure spray nozzle through the leach field and sucked out quite a bit of 'stuff'. Can't say if that helped or not because system was still working at the time.

 

[Mikes61]

We’re on septic at my house and a couple years ago we had to replace the 25 year old metal tank. It got replaced with a cement tank.

I would think that the age of your cement tank would come into play here. If it’s old and may crumble, replace everything. Also, are you planning on staying there for another 20 years? That would matter too.

With all that said, I can’t see how a cement tank connection would crumble unless it’s very old. I watched them install my new tank and it was like a small cement building being lowered into the ground with a crane.

 

[gmcgeo]

If your existing concrete tank has no major damage or leaks (confirmed by inspection), the middle option, new leach field with infiltrators — is often a good modern solution balancing cost and reliability.

If you have concerns about the tank’s condition, or want peace of mind, the full replacement (tank + new field) is safer but costlier.

The gravel and pipe method is solid but usually requires more work and material, so if infiltrators are installed properly, they generally perform just as well.

 

[kabinenroller]

if your tanks are old they may fail when you least expect it. We purchased a home 13 years ago, two years later when the tanks were 25years old the top of the main tank caved in. I have a mound instead of a leach bed but that was not the issue. The determination for the failing tank was that the previous owner used caustic cleaning products to clean her house. She was a clean freak and went overboard with cleaning agents. Replacing the tanks was a major disruption to the yard and left us about $15k lighter. (and that was 11 years ago)

 

[NBraun]

What failed? How old is your system?
Our system is 47 years old and doing just fine. When I had the tanks pumped several years back they also ran a high pressure spray nozzle through the leach field and sucked out quite a bit of 'stuff'. Can't say if that helped or not because system was still working at the time.

Unsure of the exact age, but the previous owner moved in sometime in the 80's so the neighbor and I are guestimating it'd be sometime in that decade. Current system is just an open ended pipe to the shelter belt. The pipe has failed and is leaking effluent in the yard.

We’re on septic at my house and a couple years ago we had to replace the 25 year old metal tank. It got replaced with a cement tank.

I would think that the age of your cement tank would come into play here. If it’s old and may crumble, replace everything. Also, are you planning on staying there for another 20 years? That would matter too.

With all that said, I can’t see how a cement tank connection would crumble unless it’s very old. I watched them install my new tank and it was like a small cement building being lowered into the ground with a crane.

We will hopefully be here for the rest of our lives, so that's part of it too. We don't want to spend money now doing a band aid fix, only for us to have to replace the tank in five years anyways. The thing that hung us up, is two of the plumbers really didn't see an issue with just replacing the field, and said in our shoes that's what they would do.

 

[zak77]

What does your engineer say?? Not sure where you're located but in Mass you must have an engineer draw up plans and get them approved by the local Board of Health otherwise it's an illegal install and could cause the system to be removed, redesigned and then installed properly. Check with your local Health Dept or whoever regulates this stuff in your area. The engineer does a soil analysis and a perc test to determine the best course of action, which if none of the companies your reached to did any of that, walk away from them because there's a chance it will fail again in a short amount of time. Not worth the risk and cost if you ask me. Get it done right.

 

[kj_mustang]

Agree with Zak77, if the field failed, you need to know why. If it was lack of tank pumping and the lines are filled with sludge, then you could maybe excavate and replace in the same area. If it failed due to lack of soil percolation, then the new field will quickly fail also.

 

[LOW1]

Just because the concrete tank is 50 years old does not mean it’s bad. I would think that a $4500 bidder could excavate around the tank and inspect the interior and give you a very accurate assessment of its condition. Your old tank may even be better than a new plastic one.

 

[KenC]

Wow, I've not seen a open dump system in forever. But, the lack of an old leach field is good news IMO. No old pipes or gravel to deal with while digging the new trenches. I've never heard of a concrete tank failing short of collapsing from overloading. I'd go with one of your $4500 bids.

 

[Pluribus]

Interesting that the third contractor feels infiltrators are LESS reliable than pipe and gravel. I'm not a pro, but that seems counter-intuitive. My current system is all PVC with infiltrators, and that's what they're still calling for around here if you're lucky enough to be allowed to use a gravity system.

As for connecting to a concrete tank, I had a failed outlet baffle on my 40-year old tank (at a former property.) Contractor broke it into pieces, then replaced it with a PVC pipe cemented into the side of my existing concrete tank. If the tank is solid, I'd say you just run with it if the contractor feels it's good.

 

[NBraun]

What does your engineer say?? Not sure where you're located but in Mass you must have an engineer draw up plans and get them approved by the local Board of Health otherwise it's an illegal install and could cause the system to be removed, redesigned and then installed properly. Check with your local Health Dept or whoever regulates this stuff in your area. The engineer does a soil analysis and a perc test to determine the best course of action, which if none of the companies your reached to did any of that, walk away from them because there's a chance it will fail again in a short amount of time. Not worth the risk and cost if you ask me. Get it done right.

We're in a small county. As long as it is installed by a licensed contractor(with the state), there is no need for engineered plans. This was relayed to me by each of the contractors, and the fact that I can find ZERO information saying otherwise in the codebooks.

Agree with Zak77, if the field failed, you need to know why. If it was lack of tank pumping and the lines are filled with sludge, then you could maybe excavate and replace in the same area. If it failed due to lack of soil percolation, then the new field will quickly fail also.

It was an open ended system, so no actual "leach" field to fail, just the pipe.

Wow, I've not seen a open dump system in forever. But, the lack of an old leach field is good news IMO. No old pipes or gravel to deal with while digging the new trenches. I've never heard of a concrete tank failing short of collapsing from overloading. I'd go with one of your $4500 bids.

I followed up with the second contractor, since it was my wife who met with him initially. he said the same thing about the tank.

Interesting that the third contractor feels infiltrators are LESS reliable than pipe and gravel. I'm not a pro, but that seems counter-intuitive. My current system is all PVC with infiltrators, and that's what they're still calling for around here if you're lucky enough to be allowed to use a gravity system.

As for connecting to a concrete tank, I had a failed outlet baffle on my 40-year old tank (at a former property.) Contractor broke it into pieces, then replaced it with a PVC pipe cemented into the side of my existing concrete tank. If the tank is solid, I'd say you just run with it if the contractor feels it's good.

That's what really threw me off. Most of what I can find say's they're more reliable than the Perforated pipe and gravel, while also being easier to install.

 

[PCustoms]

What state are you in?

Seems like a perc test, required or not, would tell you if your soil is appropriate for a field.

Regarding the tank, contractor #1 should be out, he's going all in from step 1. Contractor should warn you about the potential, but there's also viable repair options to avoid replacing the tank for something so simple.

 

[jmarkwolf]

We had an issue with our septic field, in sandy soil, in our new house after about a dozen years. I noticed the lawn was wet and suspected a broken irrigation line, but the wetness persisted after we turned off the sprinkler system.

A neighbor suggested we call a guy he knew to come out and inspect, and he advised that our field had likely developed an impermeable film or layer that was preventing the water from draining into the surrounding soil.

He determined where the edges of the field were (I knew approximately), then he walked to the center of the field, stuck a long steel staff deep in the ground and pulled it out. Immediately we heard a loud resounding "glug, glug, glug" sound as all the undrained water in the field suddenly drained down that small hole left by the steel staff, confirming his suspicions of an impermeable layer. As I recall the sound lasted minutes.

He came back a few days later with a large self-propelled air compressor, and stuck a hollow shaft into the field on a 1ft x 1ft grid, and shot a blast of compressed air into the impermeable layer apparently blasting it to smithereens. On each pulse of air, all the previous holes "geysered" about 6ft in the air. He was standing down-wind of those geysers sometimes. I offered to hose him off before he got back in his truck, but he declined.

Afterwards, he installed an aerator (like a large aquarium pump) that pumps air into the septic tank, which he said would act like a "small water treatment plant", the oxygen promoting bacterial growth. We haven't had any trouble since in approx. 20 years.

We've had to replace the aeration pump a few times, but it's a small price to pay when we were looking down the barrel of the cost of a new field, which would've meant tearing up the front yard and irrigation system, etc. He charged us about $3500. A new field would have been well north of $10,000 with the cost of irrigation system replacement, etc.

I think his process might have been called "pneumatic soil fracturing" or something similar.