Septic System

[flyingw]

I know this is a Garage site but I'm having a major problem and I thought there may be some resident experts here.

I bought my house new in 2002. I had my septic tank pumped for the first time in 2007 and didn't have any sort of problems with it until 2011 when my wife's elderly dad came to live with us in February. The old fart insisted on wiping his **** with baby wipes and the problems began in Aug of 2011. Since then we have had to have our tank pumped twice a year. I had to have it pumped 9 days ago...AGAIN because the tank was full...AGAIN. I checked it today and the water level was half way up the inlet pipe....AGAIN. I tell you, this is getting old and expensive.

We told dad do not flush the baby wipes down the toilet but did he listen.... NO. I have three laterals and as far as I can tell, none of them are perking. I suspect the wipes have clogged the distribution box somehow. The worst case is having my lateral field dug up which if I have to have that done will set me off to no end and cost me at very least about 4k.

If there are any septic guys here, what other options do I have? Could I not dig up the distribution box? Is it accessible to where I could unclog it? I'm looking for any option other than digging up my laterals. How can I tell if my laterals are working or not. Since having the tank pumped out 9 days ago, my wife and I have been very conservative about putting water down the drain. We haven't done any laundry in four days so the only demand on the septic system has been normal i.e. toilet flushing, short showers, and sink usage. What am I to do?

 

[ripper70]

You can defiantly dig up the distribution box yourself. Just follow the outlet to the first box and inspect it, i cant imagine it being clogged past the first box. Thats insane he put enough wipes in there to get down to the laterals Good luck

 

[hedhunter9]

It is SUPPOSED to be full....
Do some research on septic systems and how they work.
After they pump the Solids out, they refill with water.
Bacteria breaks down the solids. A good designed septic system should
go for a long time without needing pumped. (our shop one went 24 years with out pumped. When taken out to be hooked up to city sewer, the holding tank still was not full of sludge. The bacteria in the tank was doing its job well)

The pumper should measure the top scum and the bottom solids.
The top scum is the stuff bacteria wont digest. (soaps, plastics, etc.)
The bottom sludge is the stuff bacteria breaks down.
The only thing going out the outflow pipes into your field system is liquids.


Now if it is FULL of SLUDGE and Scum, then that goes out the outflow pipes into the field system and plugs up your field drains.. That is bad..

But you could not be full of sludge and scum in only 9 days unless you had 400 people using your bathrooms for those 9 days..

Bob

 

[flyingw]

I can't say for sure the wipes are the cause but it the only thing that makes sense. I can't imagine what else would cause the grey water to not leech out to the drain field other than something is clogged somewhere. I live on a sandstone hill so my soil is very loamy so absorption in to the soil shouldn't be an issue if everything is draining and leeching as its supposed to.

 

[flyingw]

I know that hed. The water level should be 2" below the inlet pipe as a norm but the water isn't being processed fast enough to maintain that level even with mild water usage. I can tell you that as many times as we have had our tank pumped, there is no sludge in the tank nor was there very much the first time I had it pumped in 2007 so sludge isn't a factor.

 

[Architorture]

The wipes are the problem. There have been national news stories about municipal sewer systems asking customers not to use the, because they don't break down as easy as toilet paper.

Take a few sheets of TP and submerge it in water...it'll break up pretty quick... Now try it with a wipe... It'll be there for days and still be relatively intact.

Sounds like you have a few that made there way out of the settlement tank and are clogging up the works

 

[BD1]

As far as I know , the tank will always have water in it and will look full. The waste etc settles in the bottom of the tank . The inlet pipe will be higher then the outlet which means as more water fills the tank when it reaches the outlet pipe level it will start to drain.
There should be a ''inspection'' cover where the inlet pipe enters the pipe. Open that to verify the water level in tank is below bottom of inlet pipe. If tank water level is rising , the outlet pipe or field is becoming plugged. Your septic pumping guy should have checked that. The reason the tank is pumped is because waste , sludge , etc. is laying on bottom of tank and needs to be removed. It is not pumped since it is filling with water. It doesn't take long to fill a 1,000 gallon tank with 4 people in a house. You could goggle this too and get a clearer understanding.

 

[ripper70]

The wipes arnt breaking down and are probably flowing out of the tank. You gotta stop take the wipes out of the house or hes gonna put a hurtin on your field for sure. Tellem if he keeps putting them down the toilet your gonna make him syphon the tank out with a hose...

 

[Stuart in MN]

The wipes are the problem. There have been national news stories about municipal sewer systems asking customers not to use the, because they don't break down as easy as toilet paper.

Yup. I work in the wastewater business, and they're a big problem. They have fibers in them that don't dissolve, so they clog things up. It's even worse if you have a grinder pump, the fibers get wound up in the impellers.

 

[tjpavlov]

Is anybody in your house on any medications which may be killing the natural bacteria in the tank?

 

[kelpaso1]

Your leach field may already be clogged and damaged. Do wet wipes float? If so they could have made it out of the tank outlet and into the leach field pipes and blocking the holes.

I make a big deal what goes out the sinks and toilets. No oil from pans, food scraps, harsh chemicals, paper towels. No thick toilet paper, tampons/pads, hair dying chemicals, q-tips. Nothing in the toilet except cheap toilet paper and what comes out of you

Now what's good for your septic? Old stale beer,wine or beer making liquids(yeast)

 

[flyingw]

This was my first house with a septic system. I did my homework when we moved in. Things like tampons, paper towels, egg shells, and baby wipes are some of the things that should never be put down the drain. The rule I follow is if it doesn't go in my mouth, it doesn't go down the drain. My Father in Law passed last Feb so the wipes havn't been going down the drain since then. I also know that in the Winter, soil tends to harden up and when we have allot of rain and the ground is satuated, evaporation is somewhat restricted so my wife and I make adjustments when these conditions exist. We also don't do back to back loads of laundry. We both realize we have a daily water budget we can put down the drain so following all these rules, we shouldn't have any problems with our septic tank and that's why I'm afraid I have a problem with water getting to the drain field.

 

[kelpaso1]

This was my first house with a septic system. I did my homework when we moved in. Things like tampons, paper towels, egg shells, and baby wipes are some of the things that should never be put down the drain. The rule I follow is if it doesn't go in my mouth, it doesn't go down the drain. My Father in Law passed last Feb so the wipes havn't been going down the drain since then. I also know that in the Winter, soil tends to harden up and when we have allot of rain and the ground is satuated, evaporation is somewhat restricted so my wife and I make adjustments when these conditions exist. We also don't do back to back loads of laundry. We both realize we have a daily water budget we can put down the drain so following all these rules, we shouldn't have any problems with our septic tank and that's why I'm afraid I have a problem with water getting to the drain field.

I have the same problem with freezing then a week of rain saturating the leach field. Have to be careful of water usage, washer, showers, washing dishes when this happens.

Pumping the tank that often is actually doing more harm than good. You are getting rid of all the bacteria that it needs to decompose waste. You need GOOD bacteria in your tank that takes months to form and multiply. Pumping just gets rid of that.

If your holding tank is overflowing you either have a blockage in the outlet pipe or in the leach field.

 

[IBenDcars]

If your holding tank is overflowing you either have a blockage in the outlet pipe or in the leach field.

I would start by digging up the line out of the tank to the distribution box. My money is on a crushed/smashed pipe. They can be easily crushed by the backhoe when they were installed.

 

[flyingw]

The thing to remember is there are two systems that have to work inside of a septic tank.

The bacteria are what make up the eco system that consumes the sludge but its not absolute in that it never completely consumes all of the sludge.

The other system is the transport of the water to the drain field where it is processed through the soil. There is an entirely different eco system within the soil that consumes the small partials that come with the water and that eco system is just as important as the eco system within the tank but separate.

The two systems work independently of each other. I do treat my tank with Riddex and yes, frequent pumping does disrupt the sludge eco system but that has no bearing on water being moved to the drain field. That is a mechanical process.

 

[kelpaso1]

The thing to remember is there are two systems that have to work inside of a septic tank.

The bacteria are what make up the eco system that consumes the sludge but its not absolute in that it never completely consumes all of the sludge.

Correct.

The other system is the transport of the water to the drain field where it is processed through the soil. There is an entirely different eco system within the soil that consumes the small partials that come with the water and that eco system is just as important as the eco system within the tank but separate.

The two systems work independently of each other. I do treat my tank with Riddex and yes, frequent pumping does disrupt the sludge eco system but that has no bearing on water being moved to the drain field. That is a mechanical process.

Correct again. If the water is not going out to the leaching field and dispersing then you have a blockage. And don't waste you money on snake oil chemicals. Your own bodily waste has enough bacteria to keep your septic healthy.

 

[KANSASBOY]

Been there last year had to replace my laterals .Have you pull the outlet cover off and see if there water standing in it ??? water should be up to the bottom of the pipe . In my case water is standing in outlet pipe(3"pipe going out back of tank) i was backing up in the house we had it scope laterals were clogged

 

[chops101]

Are you driving over your drain field, even occasionally? A car can crush the pipe. Or it may have just collapsed on it's own. Certain types of tree roots invade drain fields.

When you had your tank pumped, did the company jet the field lines? That is probably next in order.

Oh yeah you now know the drill, don't flush what you won't eat.

 

[flyingw]

Nobody has ever driven across my tank or drain field. I don't have any trees or landscaping anywhere near the drain field either. I'm at my wits end with this. The last thing I need is to have my yard dug up. I have a call in to the company who installed the system to discuss troubleshooting and options.

 

[Ed ke6bnl]

It is SUPPOSED to be full....
Do some research on septic systems and how they work.
After they pump the Solids out, they refill with water.
Bacteria breaks down the solids. A good designed septic system should
go for a long time without needing pumped. (our shop one went 24 years with out pumped. When taken out to be hooked up to city sewer, the holding tank still was not full of sludge. The bacteria in the tank was doing its job well)

The pumper should measure the top scum and the bottom solids.
The top scum is the stuff bacteria wont digest. (soaps, plastics, etc.)
The bottom sludge is the stuff bacteria breaks down.
The only thing going out the outflow pipes into your field system is liquids.


Now if it is FULL of SLUDGE and Scum, then that goes out the outflow pipes into the field system and plugs up your field drains.. That is bad..

But you could not be full of sludge and scum in only 9 days unless you had 400 people using your bathrooms for those 9 days..

Bob

This is my opinion of how it works. mine was pump about every 10 yrs. and I think it could of been done once in 20 yrs. we are very careful of what goes in. I do have to admit I have problem with blockage before the septic at the tee. I just purchase a electric snake with 100 feet of snake and I have now cleaned out the line at the tee entering the tank. hope that end the toilet paper issue prior to the entering the tank.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Look where the line goes out of the tank, that will tell you what you want to know, if it is up on the pipe more than 1/2 inch you have a problem with your drain field. If it is not you don't. I have had and been on septics and drain fields for the last 50 plus years. If the water is not over aprox 1/2 inch up the out pipe to the drain field you could put a package of bakers yeast in to help start the bac. again. Take a look and let us know...Richie

 

[Clik]

40 years in the Sewer Septic Business.

Additives are a waste of money.

Inlet should never be underwater.

Wipes are not good but would have to get past the outlet tee or baffle to cause a problem.

You do have an outlet tee or baffle don't you?

Locate the distribution box if you have one. Expose it and determine if the line is clear from the tank to that point.

If distribution box is flooded you have to determine if there are clogged leachfield lines or a saturated drain field. Dig a couple of holes about four feet away from the leach lines with a post hole digger. Make them the depth of the perforated leachfield lines and see if you hit water. If you do, you're screwed. Even a brandnew leach line won't work under water.

If your yard/drainfield area stays too wet to absorb effluent you have a few options. 1. Expensive mound system. 2. Hope for drought. 3. Plant trees that **** water year round and hope it works for a few years before roots take over the leachfield, which is screwed anyway. 4. Use the tank as a temporary holding tank and pump often. Pumpers will give you a frequent pumper discount. 5. Throw a pump in the distribution box and pump the effluent into your grumpy neighbors yard.

I had a situation where I had to get rid of thousands of gallons of rain water that collected in a large tank but for political reasons I wasn't permitted to dispose of it. I planted the tank full of reeds that grew 15 feet high and got rid of all the water in no time.

 

[flyingw]

Today I met with the guy who lead the install crew when it was put in back in 02. He brought with him the documents submitted to DEQ required by OK building codes. The documents showed the perk test results and install drawings. We went out and walked the system layout per the drawing. He said that typically at least in OK, distribution boxes are no longer used. Last night I stuck my head inside of the tank and confirmed I do have an outlet baffle and it is still intact. Basically I have a 1000 gallon tank with a single access. The outlet is 2" below the inlet. The outlet has a 6" drop before leveling out to the drain field elevation. I have 3 100" laterals servicing my tank. He also said that given the fact that there are only 2 people in the house and no sprinkler system, the system should have plenty of capacity to process the grey water providing we don't overload the system. I went over our daily water usage habits with him and he seemed content with that.

He said I has 2 options, grab a shovel and start digging or he can bring a mini excavator out and expose the outlet pipe as a start which is about 30" down embedded in crushed rock. I prefer the second option. He's going to start with the outlet pipe and determine if the pipe is wet. If it is, then he will move down the system until we find where the laterals are dry. I asked the big question.... How much? His answer was, he's not obligated by contract because how long the system has been in place but as a matter of pride in his and his crews workmanship a cost of $500.00 and that was basically the cost of the mini excavator rental. I CAN TOTALLY HANDLE THAT. So next week they will dispatch the guys out to mark utilities then next Thursday he and his crew will be here to find out what's going on. Now that is customer service!!!!!

There is a slight depression right outside of the tank. The little voice inside my head is thinking the outlet pipe to the distribution field has collapsed. We'll confirm this and I will let you guys know how this turns out.

 

[Holedgr]

Good story and great info to all that have participated in this thread. FlyingW...I hope it works out well for you...Please keep us posted.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Keep us posted!

 

[RiceVFR]

Order a septic inspection.
I just moved into a house with two systems. One was bad and is now being replaced.
An inspection will set you back about $500. They will put a camera down into the tank and through the pipes and the distribution box. They will also test the field for sludge.

 

[theoldwizard1]

They make flushable wipes that are designed to breakdown faster.

 

[theoldwizard1]

40 years in the Sewer Septic Business.
.
.
.
2. Hope for drought.

That's the best response I have ever heard !

 

[flyingw]

With all the problems I've had with my septic system, I am pretty intimate with the inside of my tank. There is no sludge and because of the frequent pumping, sludge has not had a chance to build up since it was installed so sludge has never had a chance to work its way out to the drain field. I either have a clog due to the wipes or I have a collapsed outlet pipe.

I posted this as way of fielding options from the septic system experts here but moreover for educating people on the dos and donts of living in a house with a septic system. So many people take their septic system for granted until it fails and typically when it fails, they are dealing with raw sewage inside of their house. THAT IS A FUNK YOU DON'T WANT ANY PART OF.

The experts say as a rule to have your tank pumped every 2-3 years. I think that is money well spent considering the alternative. Educating the people who live in your house as to what can and cannot go down the drain is extremely important especially with children in the house.

I will update you on what the guys find when they expose the pipes in the yard.

 

[tomd]

They make flushable wipes that are designed to breakdown faster.

marketing.

 

[ford33]

This months issue of Consumer Reports magazine published a test of disposable wipes. They don't recommend flushing any of the wipes down the toilet. None disintegrated like toilet paper. But...if you were to flush them, Cottonelle and Scott disintegrated easily while other brands did not.

Go to consumerreports.org and search for disposable wipes for a brief on the story. You will need to subscribe or buy the magazine at the newsstand for the whole story.

 

[pstnbly]

+1on what Clik said. I'm a certified on-site system installer. My first inspection would be the outlet baffle to make sure it is in place, if it's missing or damaged the leach field or bed has been being dosed with solid material and will fail the system.

I would find the D-box and open it that will tell the tale if it's flooded the leaching laterals are plugged or the leaching bed has reached refusal. Hope the D-box is clogged and can be cleared because beyond that is $$$$$$$. If the D-box gets cleared and the problem persists an inspection camera can be inserted into the laterals to asses them and a sewer rodder can be run through to possibly reopen them without digging, good luck.

 

[Sims5]

Be very careful running a sewer machine in the lateral lines. A majority of lateral lines are thin wall plastic and a sewer machine with a blade can cut thru the pipe and actually bore itself out into the ground. If the lateral lines are not draining we have had success by hooking our vacuum hose to each line and pulling a lot out of the lines. The problem is usually not in the line, it's around the line in the gravel. The two main problems are sludge has clogged the gravel or the system is being infiltrated by ground water. Septic tank additives, such as Riddex are a total waste of money, in my opinion.

full disclosure.
I'm 42, owner/operator of ON-SITE SANITATION in Ohio and was in the truck when I was 5. Half day at kindergarten and half day in the truck.

www.On-SiteSanitation.com

 

[brownbagg]

my parent house septic has not been pump since the house was built in 72, no problems, mine is ten year old and never pump. so pumping every 3 years is not exactly correct

 

[Blue]

my parent house septic has not been pump since the house was built in 72, no problems, mine is ten year old and never pump. so pumping every 3 years is not exactly correct

Yikes. Waiting for 40+ years to pump out isn't quite correct either.

 

[BADSIX]

my thoughts exactly BROWNBAGG a properly sized and installed system should not need pumped for 10 or 15 years or more. The experts probably own a pumping business. To the o/p if you've had your tank pumped several times and you get every thing worked out you might want to put some yeast or a dead chicken in the tank to start it working.
Jay D

 

[Sims5]

You guys are right, septic tanks that are working properly don't need pumped just like the engines in your cars that are working properly don't need the oil and filter changed.
Preventive maintenance is just a waste of $.

 

[flyingw]

Wow, allot of varying opinions and suggestions. When I was a young man, I worked as a plumber and I have seen firsthand what happens when a sewage system backs up in a major way. It can funk up a house in ways you can't imagine if you've never been through that. It's a funk you will NEVER completely clean up because it gets under walls not to mention any furniture that gets soaked with that mess can never be completely cleaned either. I have a friend who lives on an inclined street. Somebody downstream from him managed to clog the main trunk line and everybody's sewage upstream from him backed up in his house. He said he had turds floating out his front door. Every room in his house had raw sewage in it at least an inch deep. The city said it wasn't their fault and the guy downstream said it wasn't his fault. He ended up filing a claim with his insurance company but they only covered a small part of the damage. Try to image that kind of nasty mess running through your house.

Septic systems have to be treated more delicately than a municipal sewage system. There are so many variables that effect how well a septic system works. Soil composition, soil compaction, type of system, tank configuration, lateral layout, water usage habits, landscaping, sprinkler systems etc. There is an eco system inside of the tank that breaks down the solids. There is also an eco system in the soil that handles the small solids that do make their way out to the laterals. These eco systems can change over time especially the eco system in the soil. The change in the soil eco system can cause a normally functioning drain field to virtually quit working. The fix is to dig up the laterals and have them replaced along with the bed they reside in. Technology in septic system has also changed. Aerobic septic systems are systems that process the gray water and is delivered out to a sprinkler system. There are also mound systems. All have their applications and all have their restrictions.

The fact that somebody has had a septic in place since the 70s and have never had it pumped is pure luck in some respects. The system, soil, and usage must be optimal but I'd be willing to bet the tank is probably about half full of sludge. The bottom line is, if you are living in a house with a septic system, take care of it. Have it pumped on a regular interval to keep it healthy. Don't drive on the drain field. Be careful as to what goes down the drain. Remember the system can only process the gray water as fast as its allowed to. Overloading the system such as doing 8 loads of laundry back to back will put far more water in the tank than it can process effectively. There is a daily water budget for your septic system. when I'm running water, I'm thinking about every drop of water I'm putting down the drain. Products like Riddex are basically hyped garbage. The fact is, the bacteria needed to break down solids will naturally occur with the different materials you put down the drain but not all material you put down the drain will be broke down hence the sludge layer that forms at the bottom of the tank. Septic system are efficient but not perfect. A pumped out tank or chemically shocked tank will take on average about two weeks to develop or recover the eco system in the tank through normal usage without adding products like Riddex or dead chickens.

The guys were out yesterday marking utilities and on Thursday, they will be here with a mini excavator to do some exploratory digging. We're going to start with the outlet pipe to determine if it's wet or dry. Distribution boxes are not used so much here in Oklahoma anymore. The laterals come off of the outlet pipe and are tee'd off of that. I'm hoping we find the outlet pipe is collapsed or broken meaning minimal digging and an easy repair. I will keep you guys posted.

 

[hobie16]

Check this site out: http://www.aero-stream.com/how-the-biomat-creates-septic-system-problems/

Our septic system was giving us problems late last summer. We were experiencing water seeping up from the ground in our yard where the drain field is. Our system uses a lift station as our drain field is higher than the location of the tank. When the pump would kick in water would seep up through the ground and run down the yard. I thought it was a leak in the main pipe coming out of the tank. A friend and I dug a hole to find the main line and it was fully in tack. The next time the pump ran I watched closely where the main water seepage was and it was right where one of the distribution lines is. I dug a hole down to the pipe and there was standing water in the hole and I could never see the pipe as it was under water. When the lift pump would kick in I could watch the hole fill with water and spill over into the yard. We had the tank pumped right before we left for a week long vacation hoping this would give the system a break and return to normal operation. When we got back it took about a week for water to show up in the hole, so the problem did not go away. I spoke with a septic contractor and he said most likely the drain field was shot due to bio-mat. So I went on line to learn more about this Bio-mat and came across the site mention above. After reading about bio-mat and the product that makes your anaerobic system into an aerobic system, I thought I would give the product a shot. What sold me on the product (Aero-Stream) were all the testimonials they had. Anyway, I ordered the system and installed it in September. Before I installed it I had the tank pumped as suggested by Aero-Stream. I'm in MN and they said it would take 6-8 weeks before you would notice results, right about the time the ground starts to freeze around here. I did not see water come up in the hole I had dug and have had no more issues since I installed the product.

I thought I would share in case you do have a damaged drain field.

Good luck and I hope you find out soon what the problem is.

 

[jmarkwolf]

I don't know if anyone has suggested it, but install one of those combination toilet/bidet's for the old guy. No paper or wipes needed.

Won't fix any current damage to your septic but can prevent it in the future.