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Serious opinions needed

larryv

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Im sorry, I meant the business. Matco, Cornwell. I was looking for toolboxes and noticed that some guys were selling their business. I could be wrong. Sound like a tough business.
 
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billymade

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The nagging question in the back of my mind is; "Why Mac Tools specifically?", the companies that seem to be doing so much better are Snap-On and Matco. We have not had a Mac dealer in years.... that tells you something! Mac tools seems to have gone through the Stanley transition and never was the same after that. If you are serious about doing the tool truck thing; it would behoove you to call Snap-On and Matco. See what they have to offer and what the specifics are on their product and franchisee specifics are as well.... you can never be too informed! :) It would be a real shame to get stuck in a situation and company that puts allot of roadblocks to success in front of you; before you even start! However, reading mactools.net scared the hell out of me! LOL! :) It also seems like a real shame; how a great company has been changed into something that is a shell of its former glory! :(
 
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daveblank

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Insurance through Mac for the truck and inventory is close to 400.00 a month.

Sales tax due at the end of every quarter that number can be huge if you are real busy.

My insurance through United Fire Group is 300 monthly. The higher your inventory level the higher the premium.


Sorry if this bothers you with the way I put it, but, sales tax is a no brainer! You collect it from customers. Every week place a dollar amount equal to or slightly higher than the amount that you've collected in it's own bank account. Therefore the money is earmarked/dedicated for sales tax payments.
 

35mastr

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My insurance through United Fire Group is 300 monthly. The higher your inventory level the higher the premium.


Sorry if this bothers you with the way I put it, but, sales tax is a no brainer! You collect it from customers. Every week place a dollar amount equal to or slightly higher than the amount that you've collected in it's own bank account. Therefore the money is earmarked/dedicated for sales tax payments.

Not bothered in the least. I just noted it as its something that needs to be known in the business and be ready for.
 
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35mastr

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My insurance through United Fire Group is 300 monthly. The higher your inventory level the higher the premium.


Is this through Matco or an outside company? With Mac you need to use there company which is Marsh.
 

Merkava_4

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Shocker, you've gotta lot of good information in this thread; the kind of information the average dude doesn't have access to.

From a consumer's perspective, I like Cornwell products just a little bit more than I do MAC. I wish MAC would round off the edges of their wrenches like Cornwell does. I own both Cornwell and MAC wrenches for what it's worth.
 

Diesel_Crawler

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After reading everything in this thread to date, I think getting into a MAC Tools truck would be a dumb idea. I mean if that's something you really want to do then go for it. But i wouldn't even have delusions at this point of making any kind of big money. Staying alive would be a great feat.
 

Merkava_4

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I think the main problem with MAC's line right now is a lack of fine tooth ratchets. They have a couple of fine tooth round heads that look like they were stolen from Facom, but other than that, not much to offer.

Cornwell ratchets are still 30 tooth, but they're so heavenly comfortable, it makes up for whatever perceived shortcomings they may have.
 
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Vinko

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Most of the older guys have really no contract.

Yeah, I asked an S-O driver about that -- he's had the route for over 30 years -- he said he didn't have a contract. He could sell anything he wanted to in addition to Snappy (I told him he should sell PB Swiss!).
 

UK Steve

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"TOOL TRUCK" what a great name for an Independent, why on earth go with a Franchise.
You need to look at the pros & cons.
I can think of a real big one for being Independent - You can sell what you want (or what your customers want) where you want at the price you want, You will have suppliers falling over themselves wanting to supply "TOOL TRUCK".
Plus it doesn't have to stop at tools,
what about consumables ---massive market.
what about on-line sales ---worldwide market.
what about a second , third, fourth TRUCK,
what about all the ex Franshised dealers becoming part of "TOOL TRUCK" (they have had all the training!

Christ..... where do I sign.........
 
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Shocker

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Man I love this place. I was hoping to get a lot of opinions and information and that is exactly what I got!

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in. All things considered, it looks like MAC might not be the way to go. I am investigating the other tool truck franchises as well as going the independent route.

I am just looking for a change and I really enjoy dealing with tools. I might just stick with what I am doing now. It is not a bad gig, just a big corporate job.

Maybe I will see about becoming a dealer for some of the European and Canadian brands? You guys interested in having a US dealer for them thar tools?

Mike
 

wrenhandtools

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Shocker,

I'm over in Spokane.

IMHO, the business model is broken and starting to fail for all the truck brands. In order for them to keep growing profits, they will have to move production overseas. ANd this will NOT please their most dependable customer base......the NASCAR fan...if you know what I mean. There just simply isn't room for what Wall Street calls "organic" sales growth. In other words, at the current price level for all truck brands, the ability to grow sales from current levels will start to stall out in the very near future, notwithstanding the current economic pace.
When you look at the price of the truck brands, compared to the average wage of ANY mechanic or shop owner, it really doesn't pencil out. The die hard truck brand customer base is shrinking all the time.

When the truck brands do try to change their business model, they most likely will cause turmoil not only with their customers but with their dealers as well.

Someone besides stupid old me will see the great division in the price arena between buying from a truck, and the Sears gig. Change is coming to this hand tool industry.

Sincerely,
 
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Shocker

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Maybe Mike, maybe. At least in my area, the tool trucks are doing OK. I have been talking to distributors and to shops and have been collecting a lot of info.

Sales are down, but not as much as you think. Shops are still buying tools on a regular basis.

I am going on a ride with a Cornwell guy next Wed. There is a route coming available and Cornwell has some very good options for new franchisees.

Also a big thanks to Dave Blankenship. He offered up a lot of insight and help.

Great guy!
 

toolproguy

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I have been selling to all of the mobiles for years. I have probably talked to 3000 dealers. Here is what you need to consider:

1) Can you collect? This is where a lot of guys fail. They can sell the tools, but they cannot collect the $. It is A LOT harder than you think. Also, mechanics move around a lot, and they are hard to find.

2) Are you ready to work 14 hour days? If not, don't try this.


In all, most of the guys I know and talk to at the shows love what they do. If you like to take care of people, work hard and be your own boss, it is a good gig. If you do not like risk (it is your $ in inventory), long hours or hard work, go work for the government.
 

Chris Adams

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The Phil McNeil Case
http://www.mactools.net/casestudies/phil.htm

What a horror story that is. :shocking:

Not taking Mac's side, don't know the territory, but reading it, as a former store manager, regional manager, middle management guy, I can say you are seeing one side of a very complicated issue.

I saw guys who would meet Mr. McNeil's description fail horribly all the time.

Other guys in exactly the same situation were getting rich, or at least, doing great.
Some were getting rich enough to retire, while our Mr. McNeil's were filing for bankruptcy.

Anecdotal stories are worth nothing.

toolproguy has it right, by the way.
 
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Shocker

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Yes, I agree. That MAC tool story is interesting but 15 years old now.

As for the hours, collecting and taking care of customers, no problem for me. I work 60 hours a week now and travel 4 days out of every month (here and there), so pretty close to the same hours and no travel is appealing.

I have some plans to keep track of debtors etc. Lots of tried and true ways to do that, especially with all my experience with technology and security.

After a nice chat with the Cornwell guy, I feel pretty good about this route. There is an excellent variety of auto repair, body, industrial, government and heavy trucking here. When one is down, the others are better and vice-versa. Sales are pretty consistent and deadbeats appear to be rare, but not unheard of.

The advantage to this is that I can pickup a route that is already established and has a relationship with lots of customers who are used to seeing the truck.

I am encouraged. Cornwell seems to be a straight shootin' company. So far so good. Now I just need to convince my wife it will work. :)
 
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Merkava_4

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I am encouraged. Cornwell seems to be a straight shootin' company.

They are a relatively small employee owned company compared to Stanley, but they put out a better product in my opinion. The Cornwell wrenches are much easier to work with because they have nice rounded off beams where you're pulling on them.
 

trackwelder

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IMHO, the business model is broken and starting to fail for all the truck brands. In order for them to keep growing profits, they will have to move production overseas.

This kind of thinking is why this country is in a tailspin. We where the strongest when we actually manufactured items. Now its nothing but greedy fat cats maximizing profits. Any company moving production overseas gets the big:fawk:

By the way good luck Shocker.
 

tankboy_taylor

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Our Cornwell Guy seems to make a good living he just bought a brand new Freightliner.
I always tease him and say why dont you sell Snap On and he says cause Cornwell is just as good and that he makes enough money selling Cornwell
 

onecheck

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you have enough cash and want to try I would think about another tool company. With so many dealerships going under and mechanics moving to new jobs its going to be very hard to collect. This is the problem you have to buy the tools and sell on credit appx. 90% of sales will be credit.[/QUOTE]

90% on credit that’s crazy :shocking:. Your like a loan shark lending money to people who dont have money except with tools. You need to have a cousin Vinny to collect for you:rocketwho. Bad move look for another opportunity. Bottom line you are a glorified collection agency.
 
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Shocker

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Well, onecheck, I don't think that is correct nor to do I agree with the 90% on credit. I get my information from distributors from several brands and no one, not a single guy is collecting on 90% credit. Yes there is credit available and for a 96" box with the works for a pro, you are going to see some use of the credit system to pay for it. Not many regular joe's have got 10-15k laying around for an outlay like that.

If I need to hire cousin Vinny to collect, it will be in the form of a collection agency who will work that angle. But, that is a pretty rare occurrence from what I have learned. Less than 8% of most guys sales go to collections.

Bottom line is, if you take care of your customer, they take care of you. The guys I am talking to are doing quite well, despite the economy. At least in this area. Our area is at around 8% unemployment. Not as bad as some parts of the country, but not great either.

From what I can tell, business at local shops (especially the independent shops) is pretty steady. Many folks are choosing to maintain their cars, fix them when they break or have a shop correct their DIY job rather than buy a new car. I am going right to the horses mouth for this info. I am asking them point blank about how they buy tools, what they like about the visiting tool trucks and the view of the future of their business. If they are being honest (and I believe that most people are just that) then the tool business will continue to be a success.

Being a partner to help them grow their business while them helping to grow mine. Nothing at all like a "glorified collection agency"
 

autoace

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MAC is a sinking ship, from my experience, and I know two former dealers who had some real problems with MAC corporate.

I would not buy much from MAC tools because their line is becoming Makes All China tools, at very high retail prices. This is not a great time for the tool dealers so I have heard.........economy is forcing sales down due to techs debt to income ratio.

Not raining on your parade, if you have to become a tool dealer, everyone seems Snap-on happy, not me, but the vast majority. You need sales as a dealer, SO is "street king".

Think before you leap, not to mention the mechanics that are deadbeats, I estimate about 40% payment hassle, but I am not a tool dealer, just what I heard.

Good luck with your decision.:thumbup:
 

Diesel_Crawler

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Bottom line is, if you take care of your customer, they take care of you.

From what I can tell, business at local shops (especially the independent shops) is pretty steady. Many folks are choosing to maintain their cars, fix them when they break or have a shop correct their DIY job rather than buy a new car.

Being a partner to help them grow their business while them helping to grow mine. Nothing at all like a "glorified collection agency"

That is a nice refresher to this thread, I think if you get into the tool truck business and you can practice what you preach you should do well :thumbup:
 

global72

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At the end of the day the job is hard. Long hours, a lot of product to manage, a lot of cash to manage.

People buy what they can put their hands on- If you dealer starts showing up with an empty truck ask him what kind of boat he just bought. A lot of people get confused and buy things rather than keeping inventory.

If you take any successful dealer and have them read Mac tools **** or read all of the snap on or matco suits they will agree that many are just failed dealers blaming everyone else for the problems.

They have all been getting sued by former dealers for years and years. No one wants to think or admit that their route failed because they could not handle the job. Always someone else's fault.

Do a ride along - Do 4 ride alongs - get the 2 worst dealers in your region and see how to fail. Then ride with the 2 top guys and see how to make it work.

The mobile route is not a failing mobile. Take a poll here for techs that have a GOOD mobile dealer and ask them if they would rather buy online or from a brick and mortar store or a good mobile dealer. Not average dealer mind you a good dealer. One that stocks tools, can remember their name, makes notes so they do not forget to bring the product they need, warranties tools, shows up at the same time every week, shakes their hand and thanks them every week for their business.
 
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fordracing200

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ever consider matco? My son inlaw buys tons of matco stuff....likes him better because he'll work with you on the price alot better then the snap on guys ever have, and he carries a wide range of things, from IR air tools to matco boxes to grey pneumatic impact sockets
 
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Shocker

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I have looked at Matco. So far they, haven't sent me any info or called after my inquiry. Cornwell has been very receptive. I received my info packet 2 days after they called.

I am not worried about the work. This would be a nice break for me actually. I work quite a bit and in a very competitive environment. My work habits would make it easy for me to handle what ever comes along. As for handling money, product etc. No problem there. I am just excited to be working with tools and guys out there trying to make a living off of fixing them.

It is hard to imagine that this would be work, sounds like fun to me!
 
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Shocker

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Update: Did my ride along with the Cornwell guy today.

I was a very good experience. The dealer is very laid back. I rode along for about 4 hours. Hit a nice smattering of shops, body, Harley, dealers and independents.

I learned quite a bit during my time. This dealer wants to modify his route and give up a majority of his current route and start heading south, so I would pickup all of these accounts. The other dealer in this area wants to modify as well and go north, leaving a large portion of his route open as well. So that leaves me sitting smack in the middle of a pretty well established territory. All told, there is about 800 or so accounts (that is a guess, I have not met the other guy and the area rep says his portion of the area is quite a bit smaller).

The dealer carries about $500 in credit for techs. He started at 300, but moved it up as he got to know people. He really concentrates on the hardline and specialty stuff. He tells me not to get too ******* trying to move tool boxes. They sell, but it is much more difficult, so he goes with flow on those. He did sell a new HUGE Cornwell box, custom built the customers design. 96" I think, custom drawers the works. He took the old Snap On box in trade, sold that (took a even smaller Snap On in trade on that) sold that one and ended up with about 5k in profit after the whole shebang. Sounds like a good turnaround on some work.

In the four hours I was there, I think he sold about $1000 in new sales, and maybe $800 in collections on previous sales. If things go the same the rest of the day, probably double that or so.

Each shop was glad to see the truck. Very friendly towards me as a ride along. I find it VERY EASY to hang and BS with the guys. Good for relations and trust, bad for keeping up with the route!

The dealer and route are in the top 50 of all Cornwell sales, but saying that, I see lots of opportunity to expand and create new business.

Now that I have seen the figures on the current business, both this route and nationwide for Cornwell, I am pretty sure that things are not as dire as many people have stated. I am sure that there are problems with routes here and there, but the folks who work on bikes, cars, trucks etc for a living, rely on their dealers. Even when they can buy elsewhere for their PERSONAL needs. There were 4 guys, all at different shops that bought a tubing bender for their home shops. They all were building cages for different things and they went to their dealer for the tool. Could have bought it on the internet but didn't.

On Cornwell as a company: They are by far the best that I have dealt with. MAC sent me a PDF for me to sign before any info of any kind, even though he said he was sending the route details etc. Matco sent me a DVD, no phone call, no email other that the auto response that they received my request. Never did look at Snap On, I have no interest in dealing with a franchise fee that is adjustable.

The local Cornwell rep called me the next day to chat. Answered my questions and got me in touch with the local dealer. Sent me next day air a full 3 inch thick packet with all of the info. Franchisee info, contracts, terms for the buy in, top 100 dealers totals for the year to date, contact info for just about everyone at the company and dealers across the US etc, etc, etc. All I needed to do was sign a paper saying that I received the info in the packet (I assume to show the regional managers are doing stuff).

I like the fact that Cornwell is privately held. Management can concentrate on making tools, marketing etc and not kowtowing to shareholders that have ZERO idea of the business and what it takes to keep it going, growing and successful. They only sell to the tool truck guys. They do not sell in any other way. Always a plus when you don't have competition coming from the company you represent.

The bad part: Now that I have done that, my wife is getting nervous. She doesn't understand why I would want to give up the job I have for the risk and uncertainty of moving into something like this. I can understand her trepidations. I have the same concerns.

I plan on going to the dealers meeting this Saturday and meet all the other dealers in the area. The number one Cornwell dealer in the nation is here in western Washington, so that should be beneficial. I will pick all their brains, see what these guys are doing to stay ahead etc.

After that, time to lay it all out on paper. Pro's, con's, costs etc. See where I would be at.

Whew. I am nervous and excited at the same time.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread with their experiences, opinions and encouragement, (even the discouragement!) :)
 
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Shocker

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Hehe, Sorry Merk, I was typing that long *** post for about an hour. Trying to keep it all straight. :)
 
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Shocker

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Yes, I manhandled several different wrenches. All their hardline is really excellent. I played with what seemed to be an endless selection ratcheting wrenches. Double flexheads (sold 2 sets of those today in metric), new E-Torx drive, and a cool Multidrive that fits pretty much every type of nut/bolt.

And prices are not that bad. Especially when you buy from the sale flyer.

All their standard hardline stuff is made in USA, but the ratcheting wrenches are Taiwan. There is a commitment to keeping all hardline wrenches, sockets, ratchets etc all made in USA, no offshore.
 

global72

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I would really recommend doing a full day. Meeting him as he preps in the AM and staying with him till he shuts down for the night.

Every do there are tools to sort and stock, deposits to prepare, sweeping the truck etc. Also I would try to do this on the longest day.

Also I would check and see if your local zoning allows you to keep the truck at your house. That saves a lot of time and expense.

I would also spend a day on the other route.
 

daveblank

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This dealer wants to modify his route and give up a majority of his current route and start heading south, so I would pickup all of these accounts. The other dealer in this area wants to modify as well and go north, leaving a large portion of his route open as well.

Think of this. Why are they moving? Are they traveling a long distance to get there? Honestly, if they are good shops, why would they give them up & start over at new ones?
 
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