service / feeder / branch circuit PLEASE

[mrb]

can we start using the proper terminology?

Service: the main power feed to your house and/or garage -this is where the meter and main disconnect are.

Feeder: this is conductors between the service and a subpanel

Branch circuit: thats what it sounds like

dont say 'im running a service to my garage' when the garage is powered from your house -you're running a feeder to your garage. If you have a seperate meter on your garage, then its a service (up to your meter/main)

you're not running a service to your welder or heater- its a branch circuit

and while we're on the subject, its not a box or fuse panel (unless its really old and is) its a subpanel.

/rant

 

[Grumpy365]

can we start using the proper terminology?



/rant

Now where would be the fun in that?

 

[mrb]

Now where would be the fun in that?

i could spend the time spent trying to figure out what the heck the poster is talking about doing something more constructive like helping them.

 

[Falcon67]

LOL. When I talked about the fuse panel for the well that was hung off the service entrance - it really was a fuse panel. I didn't think you could even buy a box with screw in fuses anymore. It got branched off into the trash.

I hear you - and it really does help to try and talk in proper terms. It educates the questioner if they will look up the proper wording and helps the responder get a more accurate idea of the issue and give a better response.

 

[jvitez]

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone. "It means just what I choose it to mean - neither more or less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."

Clarity in communication: it's a good thing.

 

[-JP]

can we start using the proper terminology?


Feeder: this is conductors between the service and a subpanel


and while we're on the subject, its not a box or fuse panel (unless its really old and is) its a subpanel.

/rant

Using the correct terminology is a benefit to improved communication and understanding. Not everyone on this forum is an expert and sharing information and knowledge is beneficial to the unqualified searching for help. It is therefore important that information provided is as accurate as possible to avoid misunderstanding.

If we agree the NFPA is our reference for technical correctness...

The definition for a "Feeder" has nothing to do with a "Subpanel".
A feeder is a set of circuit conductors that originate from an overcurrent device and terminate at an overcurrent device.
While a feeder could be terminated on a main circuit breaker of a branch circuit panelboard, it has many other applications such as terminating at a fused disconnect switch or a combination motor starter/disconnect, switchboard, motor control center, etc...

Also, the term "Subpanel" is a slang term not technically correct.
While the term is used in conversation to help describe a branch circuit panelboard that is fed from an upstream branch circuit panelboard within a distribution system, the technically correct nomenclature to be applied to this type of equipment is "Branch Circuit Panelboard".

JP

 

[rockwithjason]

unfortunately we will probably never achieve this dream of using correct terms. most of the people that come in here don't know enough about the code or trade to use proper terms. they use you fine gentlemen as an educational tool to get where they are trying to go. i consider it an act of charity by mrb, aceman and many others in here. the single stand out is mrb who seems to know just about everything in the code off of the top of his head where i look most things up.

 

[buddyboy]

when I go to the doctor he gets all uppity unless i use the proper vocabulary too.

If I have a stomach ache that feels like knots in my tummy, I can't just say it like that, I have to be proper and say I am experiencing gastralgia more specifically, tachygastria.

like you guys get all mad when someone like me asks about running some feeder wire over to a high voltage 240 plug and if i need a breaker box or new bonding ground rod for safety



it's all good, forgive us for our ignorance, we appreciate the help

 

[Norcal]

wire over to a high voltage 240 plug [/B]and if i need a breaker box ....

600 volts and less is LOW voltage, so 480 volts is considered low voltage.Just 'cause it's low voltage does not mean one should not respect it,though......

 

[-JP]

600 volts and less is LOW voltage, so 480 volts is considered low voltage.Just 'cause it's low voltage does not mean one should not respect it,though......

So true...most people are familiar with the terms low and high voltage but what is really funny is the look you get from some people when you start talking about MEDIUM voltage.

JP

 

[Norcal]

So true...most people are familiar with the terms low and high voltage but what is really funny is the look you get from some people when you start talking about MEDIUM voltage.

JP

I decided to stay away from that, confusing enough to some as-is.

 

[sberry]

Here is one to argue about, a detached garage fed from the house isn't really a sub, its a service to a detached structure.

 

[Norcal]

Here is one to argue about, a detached garage fed from the house isn't really a sub, its a service to a detached structure.

Requiring a min of a 60 ampere disco,(unless a single circuit) & connection to a grounding electode system, none of which are required on a attached structure.

 

[mrb]

Here is one to argue about, a detached garage fed from the house isn't really a sub, its a service to a detached structure.

is it? here's the definition of a service:

Service: The conductors and equipment for delivering electric energy from the serving utility to the wiring system of the premesis served.

since the line side of the garage's equipment isnt connected to the utility but to the house, i question the statement that the detached garage would be considered a service.

the requirement of a grounding electrode is not exclusive to a service. for example a SDS has to be connected to a grounding electrode.

 

[NUTTSGT]

can we start using the proper terminology?

Branch circuit: thats what it sounds like

I thought branch circuit was one string of lights per branch on the Christmas tree.

 

[sberry]

This is what Bob Keis, one of the code/teacher/inspector guru's says.

The panels in separate buildings are not really subpanels as far as code is concerned. They are the service equipment for the structure. You can have a subpanel from the service equipment in each building if you want. Between buildings, section 250.32 applies and if there are metal interconnections between buildings such as water piping, or air lines, or any metal interconnection at all, then you must install an equipment ground wire so if you have a 120/240 system, you would have four wires. The neutral would be separated in each building and a grounding bar would be installed, just like a subpanel. Then the code requires a grounding electrode conductor (GEC) to a grounding electrode (usually a ground rod). The GEC will be connected to the equipment ground bar at each building. This is not to clear overcurrent devices, this is for two reasons. One is lightning, the more important one is to put the equipment ground at the same relative potential as the earth. This is for step potential or touch potential voltages so that what you touch in the building is at the same potential as what you are standing on. Now the tricky part. If you do not have any interconnecting metal between buildings, the code allows you to install three conductors between buildings. When you do this you bond the neutral and ground the neutral just like a new service. Some inspectors think that every panel in a separate building must be treated as a subpanel, but this is not true. In past codes (1996 and older) these rule were in section 250-24 and Exception 2 addressed the grounding bus.

 

[ddawg16]

Some time ago I suggested we have a sticky FAQ in this section with the most common information in it......and THAT is exactly the type of stuff I was talking about....

I would really like to revisit that idea......and vote MRB as the care taker of it.....with help from Norcal and a couple of the other experts.....