Service Question: Pole Drop or house extension

[NCtim]

Hey there,

I live on a mountainside in Western NC. Pretty rocky terrain and fairly steep. When I built my house I had underground service run to the house from a pole about 100 yds away. My service panel is 200A (which was adequate in the late '80s) but is filled up with only 4 open breaker spaces.

My house is all electric, although passive solar and propane fireplace heat. We have a 500 gallon hot tub, electric drier, dish washer, water heater, cooktop, oven, two refrigerators, tiki bar with refrigerator, 20 or so outdoor lights, etc.

My service panel is in an interior wall (2 X4) in my closet. There are no more knock outs available in the bottom of the box, and frankly, no more room for wire as I wired my house with 12-2 minimum.

My question is, you were wondering when I'd get to that . . . , Which do you all think would be cheaper: Should I have a line dropped from a neighbor's pole & transformer (fairly new construction above me about 150 yds away over a 40' deep gorge) or bite the bullet and have my closet torn to pieces and put in a 300A service panel and run an underground line for 200A service to the garage? I'd have to go on vacation while this was being accomplished and I'd come home to quite a mess as this is my closet I'm talking about. I couldn't bear to watch the mayhem or not get involve in the rewiring.

OR, since I installed #0000 aluminum service cable from the meter base, that will handle 300A service, inside underground conduit, encased in concrete, to the panel on the back of my closet; Can I just change my main breaker to 300A in a 200A rated service panel and somehow make space for 8-3 copper to my proposed garage located 50' from this panel?

/http://imgur.com/P1a8MfC

 

[Alchymist]

Hey there,

I live on a mountainside in Western NC. Pretty rocky terrain and fairly steep. When I built my house I had underground service run to the house from a pole about 100 yds away. My service panel is 200A (which was adequate in the late '80s) but is filled up with only 4 open breaker spaces.

My house is all electric, although passive solar and propane fireplace heat. We have a 500 gallon hot tub, electric drier, dish washer, water heater, cooktop, oven, two refrigerators, tiki bar with refrigerator, 20 or so outdoor lights, etc.

My service panel is in an interior wall (2 X4) in my closet. There are no more knock outs available in the bottom of the box, and frankly, no more room for wire as I wired my house with 12-2 minimum.

My question is, you were wondering when I'd get to that . . . , Which do you all think would be cheaper: Should I have a line dropped from a neighbor's pole & transformer (fairly new construction above me about 150 yds away over a 40' deep gorge) or bite the bullet and have my closet torn to pieces and put in a 300A service panel and run an underground line for 200A service to the garage? I'd have to go on vacation while this was being accomplished and I'd come home to quite a mess as this is my closet I'm talking about. I couldn't bear to watch the mayhem or not get involve in the rewiring.

OR, since I installed #0000 aluminum service cable from the meter base, that will handle 300A service, inside underground conduit, encased in concrete, to the panel on the back of my closet; Can I just change my main breaker to 300A in a 200A rated service panel and somehow make space for 8-3 copper to my proposed garage located 50' from this panel?

/http://imgur.com/P1a8MfC

I doubt the current panel is rated for a 300 amp breaker. You will at the least have to change out the panel.

 

[NCtim]

That's what I thought. I don't have the current building code as I quit doing architectural work 15-years-ago. I was never an electrical contractor, although I wired this house and the inspector thought I did a pristine job. So you think it would be better to get a new service drop from the neighbors?

Tim

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Some of this depends on what the power company used to supply your home with. If its not capable of more than 200 amps, you would have to have the underground service replaced. If you have a large enough service, another possibility is to replace the meter base with a 320 or a 400 and install dual disconnects outside (or not install a disconnect for the house if you have only three wire to the panel, and not four wire).

You don't have to come into the house panel to get the power.

Only issues with a second meter (and I too have a second meter) is that the POCO might have rules requiring that the second meter be charged commercial rates. In some locations, the county will not allow a second meter on a property, and of course if you can have a second meter and at residential rates, you will always be paying the fixed meter charge each month.

The advantages are that the power is separate and won't interfere with the house in any way, and you basically can use all you want for welding, plasma, air compressor, lights, etc, and not be concerned about overloading the house during high draw periods.

Charles

 

[Norcal]

4/0 aluminum cable for 300 amperes??? No way, more like 180A at 75 degrees C. Your going to have to change your panel to go to more then 200A.

4/0 AL is permitted for 200A under certain conditions....

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

How much of an actual load do you have on your service,how about just adding a sub panel?

 

[NCtim]

How much of an actual load do you have on your service,how about just adding a sub panel?

I'm probably okay for adding a 100 A subpanel but it'll stress it with a compressor and a welder going at the same time, I think.

 

[NCtim]

Some of this depends on what the power company used to supply your home with. If its not capable of more than 200 amps, you would have to have the underground service replaced. If you have a large enough service, another possibility is to replace the meter base with a 320 or a 400 and install dual disconnects outside (or not install a disconnect for the house if you have only three wire to the panel, and not four wire).

You don't have to come into the house panel to get the power.

Only issues with a second meter (and I too have a second meter) is that the POCO might have rules requiring that the second meter be charged commercial rates. In some locations, the county will not allow a second meter on a property, and of course if you can have a second meter and at residential rates, you will always be paying the fixed meter charge each month.

The advantages are that the power is separate and won't interfere with the house in any way, and you basically can use all you want for welding, plasma, air compressor, lights, etc, and not be concerned about overloading the house during high draw periods.

Charles

Charles,

It's three wires coming to the meter base. I like the idea of adding a disconnect and running from there. I'll check with the PC. Obviously the garage having it's own power supply is most advantageous with metal shop tools. I'll also have to check with the PC to find out if I can still be residential. I didn't even think of that.

Tim

 

[RickP]

Charles,

It's three wires coming to the meter base. I like the idea of adding a disconnect and running from there. I'll check with the PC. Obviously the garage having it's own power supply is most advantageous with metal shop tools. I'll also have to check with the PC to find out if I can still be residential. I didn't even think of that.

Tim

That sounds like a good plan, especially if your local PC ran wire sized for more than 200A. Even if they do have to upgrade the size of the wire, at least you won't have to tear up your closet.

I needed a couple of outdoor electric circuits near my neighbor's transformer, so I wanted to install a second meter, like Charles (in GA). But between the monthly meter charge and the commercial rates, it was cheaper to just run a longer wire from the house.

 

[Red Goat]

I was able to get the utility to add a new pole drop with a second meter by getting a seperate address (Unit A) assigned to the detatched garage. The utility even ran the cable at no charge! Way cheaper than upgrading service to the house and then running it back out to the garage.

 

[NCtim]

That sounds like a good plan, especially if your local PC ran wire sized for more than 200A. Even if they do have to upgrade the size of the wire, at least you won't have to tear up your closet.

I needed a couple of outdoor electric circuits near my neighbor's transformer, so I wanted to install a second meter, like Charles (in GA). But between the monthly meter charge and the commercial rates, it was cheaper to just run a longer wire from the house.

They're not going to upgrade the wire. I don't know what they ran but it's underground about 350 feet up the side of my mountain. Plus, I regraded for a koi pond and put about 14 feet of dirt on top of the line and then, to top it off, poured a pad for my 500 gallon hot tub that's sunk in the deck built over where the line comes to the meter.

I think I ran #0000 aluminum from the meter to my panel. It looks about 1/2" in diameter. It was over 20-years-ago so I could be mistaken about the size. That just stuck in my head.

Cheers.

 

[NCtim]

How far was the pole drop? If I come from the neighbor it's still going to be 200 feet over a deep gorge. I imagine I'll need to have a pole placed by the garage.

Cheers.