Service tie in question.

[w33b8t1]

I’m at that point. I have a 100A sub panel in the new shop with main breaker.
I have a service on my house with spare room for a breaker to feed this circuit.
I bought 2/0 aluminum three wire due to voltage drop calls at 100’.
I bought a 125A breaker for the service side as it will accept the 2/0 and a 100A will not.
I bought a #2 copper ground.

I am pretty confident in my plan above. Nothing complicated about it. My concern is the service panel wording. Does this mean I cannot have a total breaker rating above the 200 amp listing? There is no main disconnect in this service panel. Just a meter and the 6 stabs. So any upstream protection is done by the power company.

My plant was to stick the 125A breaker in here and have a total of 340A of breakers. I realize that normally this is not an issue if you have a main breaker. I also realize this may fall under the 6 switch rule in some way. What I don’t want to do is cut my $300 in wire just to find out I need a sub panel or something on the house and have to buy another $300 in wire.


Pics in a moment.

 

[yatg]

Does this mean I cannot have a total breaker rating above the 200 amp listing?

That's what it says.

That 200 must feed a panel in the house. Can you connect to that instead?

 

[w33b8t1]

House panel is pretty tapped and hard to get to.

 

[Norcal]

You have a quite hodgepodge of panels, GE, Zinsco II (BR), and SQ D.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You will need to either feed from house panel or replace meter main.

Also, 2/0 is a bit overkill for 100a @ 100’. I suspect #1 al or max 1/0 AL wouldve been fine.

What type of wire did you get? Does it have an outer jacket or yellow stripe?

 

[w33b8t1]

I bought this stuff.

 

[w33b8t1]

So I would have to buy a new panel with a 200amp main breaker. Feed the house with an additional 200amp breaker and add in my other two breakers?

And hope there is enough wire to make the reaches.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I bought this stuff.

That looks like URD which is not permitted indoors.

Can you take a pic of the markings and post it here.

 

[mike93lx]

That looks like URD which is not permitted indoors.

Can you take a pic of the markings and post it here.

Man, at least he is asking questions, too bad they weren't before spending money...

 

[w33b8t1]

I can. I wasn’t planning on running it indoors though. I was only planning on going from panel to panel. I could make the swap to something else at the entrance to the shop if needed. Or run in conduit to the sub. Let me go get a pic.

The hang up is this loadcenter though. Got blindsided I guess without expecting this to come up. All my other houses had mains for the service so I didn’t think much about it.

 

[w33b8t1]

Here is the wire.

 

[mike93lx]

If the panel is indoors, you will be running it indoors, which is a no go. Has to be terminated outside and transitioned to another wire, like SER

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I cant tell.

Does the labeling say RHH or RHW anywhere?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I can. I wasn’t planning on running it indoors though. I was only planning on going from panel to panel. I could make the swap to something else at the entrance to the shop if needed. Or run in conduit to the sub. Let me go get a pic.

The hang up is this loadcenter though. Got blindsided I guess without expecting this to come up. All my other houses had mains for the service so I didn’t think much about it.

Is the shop panel on the outside?

 

[w33b8t1]

If the panel is indoors, you will be running it indoors, which is a no go. Has to be terminated outside and transitioned to another wire, like SER

Which is fine. I don’t care. That’s what I did on my last house.

I am really critical path with the meter/load center issue now which has me beaten. I have enough of the new cable to makes something work. But I am worried about the house feed. Need to find a load center suitable for what wire exists for both the service and the house feed.

I see square d makes a meter on bottom unit with a 200amp main. That might be the ticket...???

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...r-Plug-On-Neutral-CSED-SC3042M200PF/205594638

 

[w33b8t1]

Shop panel is on the inside. I can mount a box and swap to different cable on that side. Though I did think I was allowed to run it in conduit inside... guess not.

 

[Bert_]

I see no reason not to just add a breaker to the meter as long as your total load is below 200A. The rating on the breakers is not important, when you have multiple main breakers you just consider the load. That meter/main is rated for 200A of load.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I see no reason not to just add a breaker to the meter as long as your total load is below 200A. The rating on the breakers is not important, when you have multiple main breakers you just consider the load. That meter/main is rated for 200A of load.

Except you would then be violating the listing on the panel label.

 

[Bert_]

Except you would then be violating the listing on the panel label.

Why is that. All I see is the 200a maximum rating. It says nothing about the size of breakers.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Why is that. All I see is the 200a maximum rating. It says nothing about the size of breakers.

Read it again.

Combinations not to exceed 200 AMP total C/B rating.

 

[brewchief]

Look at 200 amp feed through meter main panels, has a 200 amp main breaker and space for a few more to feed other loads.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Bert_]

Read it again.

See it now. Wonder why they put that in there.

 

[w33b8t1]

See it now. Wonder why they put that in there.

To completely f*ck up my week.

 

[yatg]

Here's what I would do at this point.

Since you've got 4/0 coming out of the 200A breaker and into the house, I'm thinking your inside panel is close or even back to back.

Get a couple more twin breakers for the inside panel and free up a couple of slots.

Get a 100A breaker for the inside panel.

Get a couple of 12x12 exterior junction boxes, mount on side of house and shop, run conduit between them, pull the USE-2 and ground.
Even though use USE-2 is direct bury, the ground wire isn't. May not even be kosher since its not part of the cable assembly.

Get enough SER to go from the inside panels to outside jboxes on the house and shop. Get copper because it'll be easier to work with and should only be a few feet.

Connect the SER and the USE-2 with something like Ilsco SPAR-4/0 connectors.

 

[w33b8t1]

So I had an electrician come out. He said it won’t make the load calcs on a 200 amp service with multiple ac units and what not for me to work out a 100 amp feed to the detached garage.

So now I am getting quoted for a 400amp service......

He said the city will only allow two services per address and I have a separate service for irrigation pumps so I can’t request another service to the new garage.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This is why one needs to plan first before buying ANY materials.

 

[w33b8t1]

This is why one needs to plan first before buying ANY materials.

So boring.
FML. Haha, didn’t see this coming. Should have spent another 10 minutes looking, but as of now nothing would be different.

 

[w33b8t1]

Turning into a mess. Electric company rep is not competent. So hopefully my electrician can sort them out better than me.

Shop budget seems to be increasing at a rapid pace right now.

 

[w33b8t1]

Well if anyone is reading I heard back from the electrical company. My 10kva transformer averages 15kva in the summer and 10kva in the winter. So they want to upgrade to a 25kva.

I’m thinking to replace my existing meter panel with a new 200amp panel with a main breaker. Then feed the house with a 200 again and feed the garage with a 100.

Technically this is fine to do, and I really will have Not much if any more load than before since I am basically moving my existing stuff to the new garage and using the current one for a gym. I won’t be running heat or AC. Just my existing tools.

Upgrading the panel to a 250 or so amp was like 7 large per electrical quote. Not sure if I really need to do that. Any struggle I was having before was due to undersized transformer issues I would think...

Comments???

 

[wyliesdiesels]

There are no 250 amp electrical panels. Sizes are 100 125 200 320(400a) and 400a continuous.

 

[w33b8t1]

I think he was basing it on a reasonable wire size to purchase. So a 400amp meter socket and panel with a 250a breaker.

 

[mike93lx]

have you priced out 250a breakers? hold onto your hat.

what did the load calc say you need for the house and shop?

a 200a panel in the house an a 90a in the shop would cover probably 98% of users.

 

[w33b8t1]

I’m going to sit down tomorrow for a moment and do one. I just got the call this afternoon about their plan. I hope I don’t need a larger service than 200a. $$$$

 

[mike93lx]

how did the poco determine the transformer was undersized without a load calc?

 

[w33b8t1]

They have their meter readings. I am the only one on the transformer. So both my meters basically let them decide what I was using on average for each month.

At least that’s what they tell me.

 

[ard]

So I had an electrician come out. He said it won’t make the load calcs on a 200 amp service with multiple ac units and what not for me to work out a 100 amp feed to the detached garage.

So now I am getting quoted for a 400amp service......

He said the city will only allow two services per address and I have a separate service for irrigation pumps so I can’t request another service to the new garage.

get ready to be screwed.

You dont need a 400. prolly dont need a 320

Certainly better for him to tell you 'we cant make the calc work out' and have you bite on a $6000 upgrade project.

You *also* dont need '100 amps' in the garage. And you can have a 100A sub panel, and still have a load calc that only shows 34A of draw..... (still that odd limit of 200A of C/B)

Oh, your current panel appears to be a violation- there is 200+15=215A, correct? Which is over the 200 Limit?

 

[w33b8t1]

Yes, I believe the current panel is in violation, but I obviously just realized all of this. I also agree that I don’t think I need to upgrade my service but will do some numbers I suppose just to see.

The power company however would like to upgrade the transformer, which I think is reasonable. They will split cost 50/50 with me.

My tentative plan is to replace the existing meter/panel combo with one that has a 200A main breaker and will accept a 200A and 100A breaker.

Alternatively a separate meter and 200A breaker tied to a panel that will accept the larger breakers.

Unfortunately the house distribution panel does not have its own breaker so I have to have a 200A breaker at the meter area in some fashion.

 

[w33b8t1]

I will most likely have an electrician do the work as they have all the bits and pieces and tools to make a shorter outage in the winter than me scrambling to do a job that I don’t do every day.

But I want to do a bit of looking to see what the options are first.

 

[ard]

The power company however would like to upgrade the transformer, which I think is reasonable. They will split cost 50/50 with me.

WTF?

Here the Poco is legally responsible for costs to deliver power to a home- at least transformers, poles and what not. Maybe not unlimited wire onto your lot, but on their 'side' of the circuit.

You are 100% sure you understand the PUC rules for your poco and what they are demanding is within the scope of their permitted costs?

Do they want you to also chip in a few bucks for the power generation facility Maybe a bit each month for the additional costs of fuel?

 

[w33b8t1]

Yep, no ****. They are preparing an estimate for me as we speak.... I even read it in the policies...

Lots of strange about this area. I got in trouble with the county this week for wiring my own shop without passing an electrical test and getting an electrical permit. Was quite a mess. I was calling for an electrical inspection and they never came so I kept going... the reason they didn’t come was I didn’t have a permit so they were confused...

But all that was thankfully resolved..

Now the power company wants money for me to have electrical.....