Service upsell?

[KEH]

Took my 2014 4 cyl Tacoma in for an oil change since they sent me a nice discount coupon. They wanted me to get a "cleaning of EFI system" and a "recommended induction service.' Well, the previous Tacoma I owned was a 2005, bought new, driver 150,000 plus miles and never had that done so I turned them down, then got an email and a phone call wanting me to get that done. Said Toyota recommended that service every 30,000 miles and I had 36, 000 on the truck. Is this really a good service idea or just upselling?

KEH

 

[SARG]

I now buy Lucas treatment by the case & treat all my vehicles and tractors.

My Hyundai has 125k + on the clock with the original plugs.

And I gained 200+ rpm on several of my tractors after I started using the Lucas. I do believe it makes a difference.

And yes ..... the dealer wants your money.

 

[malibu101]

Took my 2014 4 cyl Tacoma in for an oil change since they sent me a nice discount coupon. They wanted me to get a "cleaning of EFI system" and a "recommended induction service.' Well, the previous Tacoma I owned was a 2005, bought new, driver 150,000 plus miles and never had that done so I turned them down, then got an email and a phone call wanting me to get that done. Said Toyota recommended that service every 30,000 miles and I had 36, 000 on the truck. Is this really a good service idea or just upselling?

KEH

Who said that; A Toyota dealer or an independent?

What does the owners manual say is recommended for the 30K service?

 

[Richard Cranium]

I agree, read the owners manual, the other guy's job is to up sell you...

 

[bobmulry]

Just a heads up.....................

There is no need to clean the fuel system since about 1985 when EFI was the new thing on the block the fuel manufactures started adding cleaners to their fuel....

Before all the fuel manufacturers caught on you had to add a cleaner such as Techron every 10,000 miles or so to clean things up....

If your car has Direct or Port Type EFI the throttle blade or blades and the bleeds should be cleaned because reversion in the intake system will coat the throttle blades and vacuum pick-up ports with carbon. When this happens idle quality and drivability suffer. The automobile manufactures have a guideline for mileage between cleanings. I would think between 30,000 and 50,000 miles would be OK. ....

If you have Throttle Body Type EFI the fuel washing over the throttle blades keep them clean and do not require cleaning….

These are just my opinions and your results may vary.

Bob

 

[KEH]

This was at the Toyota dealer I got the truck from, new.

Going to check the manual, which has a lot of shortcomings IMO, especially about the concerns Bob raised, thanks.

KEH

 

[rcktpwrd]

I agree with Bob. No real need for the fuel system cleaning. A throttle body cleaning might not be a bad idea. Get a can of spray cleaner from the parts store, pull the TB off if it's fairly easy to do and give it a good spray down.

 

[malibu101]

This was at the Toyota dealer I got the truck from, new.

Going to check the manual, which has a lot of shortcomings IMO, especially about the concerns Bob raised, thanks.

KEH

+Red highlight+ Now that it's mentioned, after a visual inspection to see it it's needed, I would not disagree with Bob. It can be a problem.

+blue highlight+ I also agree that, while I said to look at it, owners manuals have a lot to be desired.
To get into my personal philosophy- I sadly think the owners manuals, oil life indicators, etc., are designed to get the vehicle out of the warranty period and then they made their money.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I agree with Bob. No real need for the fuel system cleaning. A throttle body cleaning might not be a bad idea. Get a can of spray cleaner from the parts store, pull the TB off if it's fairly easy to do and give it a good spray down.

That is included in an induction service

Clean throttle body. Run cleaner through intake/vacuum line. And a bottle in the tank

And our service software will probably have different recommendations than an owners manual

 

[DodgeMech]

That is included in an induction service

Clean throttle body. Run cleaner through intake/vacuum line. And a bottle in the tank

And our service software will probably have different recommendations than an owners manual

yup, chrysler recommends that every 30k as well, and sells a nice kit with the three bottles in it, one that is ran through fuel rails/injectors, one that is sprayed down t body while running, and another that is poured in tank

that plus an actual t body service and plugs on a hemi(16 of them due every 30k) adds up to about 4.5 hours of pure gravy

 

[SAATR]

yup, chrysler recommends that every 30k as well, and sells a nice kit with the three bottles in it, one that is ran through fuel rails/injectors, one that is sprayed down t body while running, and another that is poured in tank

that plus an actual t body service and plugs on a hemi(16 of them due every 30k) adds up to about 4.5 hours of pure gravy

You're kidding, right? Are they running a standard plug or something? Last time I sold a set of plugs for a new "hemi" ( many moons ago when I worked in auto parts) they spec'd a Champion double platinum as the OE plug, to the tune of about $180 for the set. I always thought the point was longer service life (read: 80k to 100k miles) than a non precious metal tipped plug. If it's recommended every 30k, I certainly hope the Vaseline is complimentary, lol.


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[DodgeMech]

You're kidding, right? Are they running a standard plug or something? Last time I sold a set of plugs for a new "hemi" ( many moons ago when I worked in auto parts) they spec'd a Champion double platinum as the OE plug, to the tune of about $180 for the set. I always thought the point was longer service life (read: 80k to 100k miles) than a non precious metal tipped plug. If it's recommended every 30k, I certainly hope the Vaseline is complimentary, lol.


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this is pickups bud, they run regular old copper plugs, 7 bucks-ish/each from us...even though we've seen '15 model cars and trucks come with platinums now it seems, so maybe that is gone...stock plugs are NGK's too, btw

 

[SAATR]

this is pickups bud, they run regular old copper plugs, 7 bucks-ish/each from us...even though we've seen '15 model cars and trucks come with platinums now it seems, so maybe that is gone...stock plugs are NGK's too, btw

That makes more sense. I was under the impression that they were all running double platinum or iridium plugs these days. Shows you how long it's been since I was wrenching on things with spark plugs!

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[JKady]

Just a heads up.....................

There is no need to clean the fuel system since about 1985 when EFI was the new thing on the block the fuel manufactures started adding cleaners to their fuel....

I've fixed many runability issues with an injector cleaning machine (Motorvac), so I disagree there. BUT, if there is no problem, no need to do the service. Motorvac machines plug straight into the inlet/return fittings on the fuel rail, they only clean the injectors and combustion chamber. JB has a similar machine (That's a big POS in comparison!), usually when you go somewhere and they want to sell you a "Fuel injection service" that's what they're slinging.

KEH, the induction and injection services that you were recommended are more than likely JB brand services, not anything Toyota or any other manufacturer for that matter recommends. Do they work? Not to the extent you're ever going to notice from the driver's seat, other than being closer to it because your wallet is a little thinner. Basically, we (techs, and the service advisor that sells the service) get a kickback from whatever company sells us the stuff for putting their product out there, and that's the primary reason they recommend them.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Why did you get rid of a Tacoma with only 150k.....was it wrecked?....

 

[SuperD]

I have 275,000 on my Olds Intrigue, never ever once ran fuel injector cleaner through it. Run name brand fuel, keep the fuel filter changed. 23 years as a GM factory trained tech. If it makes you feel better, run a name brand fuel cleaner through it every 20-30K kms. Save your money for beer.

 

[Blown454ss]

If it has direct injection it will help in the long run, we get lots of is250's the the intake valves are all carbon'd up, the injectors in the cylinders they don't have the fuel cleaning off the valve and reversion

 

[DodgeMech]

I've fixed many runability issues with an injector cleaning machine (Motorvac), so I disagree there. BUT, if there is no problem, no need to do the service. Motorvac machines plug straight into the inlet/return fittings on the fuel rail, they only clean the injectors and combustion chamber. JB has a similar machine (That's a big POS in comparison!), usually when you go somewhere and they want to sell you a "Fuel injection service" that's what they're slinging.

KEH, the induction and injection services that you were recommended are more than likely JB brand services, not anything Toyota or any other manufacturer for that matter recommends. Do they work? Not to the extent you're ever going to notice from the driver's seat, other than being closer to it because your wallet is a little thinner. Basically, we (techs, and the service advisor that sells the service) get a kickback from whatever company sells us the stuff for putting their product out there, and that's the primary reason they recommend them.

we don't...we don't use BG or any of those other aftermarket ones, my SM is too damned cheap anyway...prolly wouldn't let us do the rewards program even if we did sell it, he'd want to keep the **** for himself

 

[WhiffySpark]

We have bg it's too expensive. We're looking at switching to valvoline. I used valvoline before and I felt they worked better

 

[Ponchoguy]

Took my 2014 4 cyl Tacoma in for an oil change since they sent me a nice discount coupon. They wanted me to get a "cleaning of EFI system" and a "recommended induction service.' Well, the previous Tacoma I owned was a 2005, bought new, driver 150,000 plus miles and never had that done so I turned them down, then got an email and a phone call wanting me to get that done. Said Toyota recommended that service every 30,000 miles and I had 36, 000 on the truck. Is this really a good service idea or just upselling?

KEH

In the 20+ years I've driven fuel injected cars, I've never done anything more than changed the fuel filters regularly (where they had them) and used good quality fuel.

I worked for a fuel injector manufacturer for 10 years and we sold cleaning kits, which were of dubious value at best (and that was 11 years ago).

 

[Lotek]

Imho, and based on my experience, cleaning the throttlebody, running top engine cleaner through the intake, and throwing some techroline in the tank every 30k will handle the maintenance on most vehicles. Injector cleaner will also clean the tops of the pistons and except for direct injected motors, help clean the intake valves, so whether the injectors themselves need cleaning or not, it's still a good thing. When there is actually an issue with the injectors, it's usually the first step recommended by the mfg before replacement. Not all vehicles can be done diy, as many require an idle relearn, some need special adaptors, etc.

 

[curtrnev]

I noticed a big drop in driveability concerns after MTBE was removed from gasoline.

 

[Robbie B]

It's not a bad idea as the induction cleaning helps keep down carbon build up on the valves but you can do it at home with seafoam. Also using a good quality gas will go a long way in stopping the build-up.

 

[Wine-o1]

Took my 2014 4 cyl Tacoma in for an oil change since they sent me a nice discount coupon.

KEH

This right here should give you a hint about those services. Dealers don't make much on oil changes, its all about up-sells. So they send out oil change coupons to get customers in the door to recommend services. Not saying they may not have some benefit, but at 36,000mi. I wouldn't be too concerned about not doing them.

 

[sberry]

Its a lube job.

 

[jn50308401]

These services seem like a waste of money and and many OEM'S discourage "induction" services. Name brand fuel, no fill ups while the truck is at the station a bottle of Chevron Techron even once in a while, that's it for me.

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[Keel]

so, let me get this straight, new "brand name " fuel doesn't leave varnish or anything,

have any of these techs ever seen an injector spray pattern when tested off the engine and then after cleaned ?
I doubt at 36k it do much, but to say todays brand name fuels, don't leave anything behind and self clean,
might be a tad much

 

[Keel]

now this is snake oil

 

[rburke65]

No fill ups while the truck is at the station......what's that mean?

 

[WhiffySpark]

These services seem like a waste of money and and many OEM'S discourage "induction" services. Name brand fuel, no fill ups while the truck is at the station a bottle of Chevron Techron even once in a while, that's it for me.

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What oems? The only one I know of is the Nissan 2.5 or 3.5 that has cheap plastic valves in the intake or something

 

[rednotch]

No fill ups while the truck is at the station......what's that mean?

If the truck is filling the in ground tanks go to the next station. filling the tank stirs the fuel, more chances of you getting trash from the pump itself.

 

[malibu101]

If the truck is filling the in ground tanks go to the next station. filling the tank stirs the fuel, more chances of you getting trash from the pump itself.

I know I'm going way off-topic here, but.....
Do gas station pumps have no filters or crappy filters that let a lot of junk through?

Certainly I understand the theory but is it really something to worry about?

 

[JKady]

we don't...we don't use BG or any of those other aftermarket ones, my SM is too damned cheap anyway...prolly wouldn't let us do the rewards program even if we did sell it, he'd want to keep the **** for himself

That *****, I get $3 per service as does the ASM that sells it.

I know I'm going way off-topic here, but.....
Do gas station pumps have no filters or crappy filters that let a lot of junk through?

Certainly I understand the theory but is it really something to worry about?

Old wives tale just like filling up when it's cold out. If the tanks at the station were pumping **** into your car their pumps would fail constantly, as would your fuel pump since your tank would be full of dirt and sediment too.

 

[jn50308401]

What oems? The only one I know of is the Nissan 2.5 or 3.5 that has cheap plastic valves in the intake or something

GM for one, I'm more familiar with their products, but with the DI engines everyone has now and their carboning problems, things may have changed since then. I'll pull the bulletin #s tomorrow.

My take is that if someone is selling the latest and greatest magic potion, somebody will buy it.

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[bob_the_builder]

What is the best way to run a top engine cleaner through the intake? Would be interested in trying this on my silverado truck.

Bob

 

[DodgeMech]

What is the best way to run a top engine cleaner through the intake? Would be interested in trying this on my silverado truck.

Bob

sea foam through the brake booster hose...or a rig that runs it through the fuel lines/injectors

 

[bob_the_builder]

Good to know. I did not know the rigs that mount to the fuel lines help clean the intake as well.

Bob

 

[2ndGearRubber]

^Running through the vacuum lines is the better way to go, IMO. If you want the injectors cleaned, buy a bottle of techron or whatever.


When the cleaner enters the manifold, it does a damn good job of swirling through and getting varnish and deposits everywhere. Running a cleaner through the injectors wouldn't do so, only clean the back of the valves and the combustion chamber.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Every 30-50k is a decent recommendation, it only removes deposits that have accumulated since new. PCV oil spray and EGR dump ports are two things that it cleans quite well.



IMO: I don't mess with OBDI cars, they're just so picky and finicky, and now the sensors/engines are so old, they take quite a while to get a smooth idle again.

 

[ScottsGT]

Honda dealership tried this **** with my wife, so she called me with the service mgr standing right there and she put him on the phone. I got him to admit they were just dumping injector cleaner into the fuel tank. At the price of $150. I told him we will be taking our car elsewhere for now on if they try this scam again. Chevron cleaners go on sale at Auto Zone all the time. Two treatments for the price of one. It made a big difference in my sons old Lexus after two treatments.