setting up a 220V outlet in the garage...

[Luckydevil]

My garage is not wired for 220V and I would like an outlet for a big air compressor. I'm kind of hesistant to put in a 220V outlet myself. How hard would this be to do if I did do it myself and how much should I expect to pay to have someone else do it?

 

[OI812]

I have done a fair amount of wiring myself, and I don't think its that hard. A lot is going to depend on how comfortable you feel, and what your main panel looks like. Might be worth putting a sub-panel in your garage. Then take the 220V out of there. Just an idea

What type of breaker panel do you have luke. I might be able to help until we get the electrician aboard.

Just remember I'm a plumber and water and electricity ....well

 

[jstbecauz]

It all depends on what your service is. It is easy to install 220V, but it will start with your panel and a breaker. Also get the specifications of the comperssor you are going to use. Probably a 30 to 50 amp breaker would suffice.

 

[Luckydevil]

here is my breaker panel...

 

[Kevin54]

First off where is the garage fom the breaker panel? Then look at the bottom 6 breakers in the panel. Those are 220 breakers. You will need to get a 30 amp breaker that is compatible with your panel box. Pull the cover off of the panel box and at the top you have 8 banks left for breakers. Knock out two of the slugs, one right above the other. This will let you mount your breaker in the box. Look at your existing breakers at the bottom and the new one will hook up exactly the same. BUT...you have to figure out where the wire is going to run and how you are going to get it there. Chances are if the panel is upstairs all the wire is run above (if on a crawlspace or slab foundation) and if the panel is in the basement it will still be run overhead but considerably more difficult to do. You will need to kill power by flipping off or pulling the main breaker. After you figure out which way the wire runs you can then get a fish cable (a stiff steel flat line in a roll) and try tofish your line thru the box. You will need to knock a slug out of the box (either top,or bottom) to run the line thru. If it goes up then you will have to run it across the attic and then back down a wall. It will take some careful measuring to figure out where to drill some holes. You can get a remodeling box (electrical box) that clamps to the drywall with small wings that is on th ebox, or you can run a oiece of conduit down the wall and to an external mounted box. If the external box is used it will have to be fastened to studding. I hooked my compressor up using No.8 (I think as I borrowed it from the shop ) flexible wire (like an extra heavy extension cord) and a plug so I could move the compressor if need be. It is not that hard of a job if you have some mechanical abilities. It's just a little tedious running the wire. Most of your local build supplies can hook you up with the correct connectors that you will need. Romex to hold the cable to the box will be needed and then any others deemed necessary depending on which way you have to run it. If you would post a little more info as to where the box is and where you want the compressor at.

Kevin

 

[Luckydevil]

the breaker box is in the garage and i also want the outlet for the compressor in the garage about 6ft away.

 

[OI812]

Is that a GE Panel? You may have to run the wiring in a conduit if it is surface mounted. It shouldn't be that tough especially 6' away. I'm not sure about a 30 amp breaker, depends on the size of the compressor--but that does sound about right. I have a Square D panel and my breakers kind of tip and snap into place. You should see two screws on the breaker and that is where your hots will go. My panel has a 2 bars that hold the neutrals and I believe it has two bars for the grounds. Usually white is your neutral, black is your hot and green is your ground.

Kevin54 is correct in the sense it is not that hard of a job if you have some mechanical ability. Shut the panel off so you are safe, and watch what you touch. Just because the breaker is off doesn't mean everything is dead. The main wires coming into the panel are live and you need to be careful around them. Once you do some wiring in the panel you get more comfortable with it and it is not so intimidating then. Hope that helps.

 

[dkn1997]

I would do it if it were me, but I also do electrical work at my job (swimming pool mechanic) and during the winter, I work with an electrician as a helper.

with that said, when it comes to working in the panel box, just pay the man. unless you have done it before, you can really hurt yourself. I cannot imagine it will be more than 100 dollars or so depending on how far the outlet will be from the box.

more electricians/builders should take a cue from whoever did your panel. It never ceases to amaze me how most panel boxes are stuffed full of breakers when the house is new. seems like they figure out exactly how much load they are going to have and use the absolute smallest box possible to save a few bucks. you have enough room in that box to do lots of things if you want.

to anyone building a new house, insist on at least a 200 amp service for a normal (2200 sq.ft.) size house and go up from there. There will almost always come a time when you will want to add something.

 

[Sir Loyn of Beephe]

How do you plan on running the romex? Can you fish through the walls or will you have to surface mount?

Can you access the top of your panel without cutting drywall?

Also, is that a GE or Cutler-Hammer panel (they both have the same color breaker handles and I can't read the writing)? Also, what is the amperage rating of the main breaker (the big one in the middle.

As for the size of breaker you need, first find the HP of the motor on it, multiply the number of HP (true HP, not that peak HP **** they print on cartons) by 750, then divide that number by 220. Then add 20% to that number. This will be the size of breaker you will need (the next size up from that that is)

For 15 amps you need 14 gauge wire, for 20 you need 12, for 30 you need 10; and that should cover most home-garage sizede compressors just fine.

Code requires any motor over 1/4 HP to be on its own dedicated circuit, so this breaker will run go to one and only one outlet.

 

[1ownerT]

I have one comment, the two breakers that are for the disposal and the diswasher need to be seperated, there should not be a jumper across them. Neither of those are 220 appliances, and they should be independent of each other. It is a 220 breaker but it is being used as two 110 circuits.

 

[Kevin54]

I have one comment, the two breakers that are for the disposal and the diswasher need to be seperated, there should not be a jumper across them. Neither of those are 220 appliances, and they should be independent of each other. It is a 220 breaker but it is being used as two 110 circuits

Good eye They definately should be seperated. You could have problems with one appliance and the circuit not blow.

Kevin

 

[Sir Loyn of Beephe]

Good eye They definately should be seperated. You could have problems with one appliance and the circuit not blow.

Kevin

Thats not a problem: It was a common practice until the 1997 NEC code outlawed it. The only problem is that if there is a problem with either leg, then both legs will trip together.

It does not take a fault on both hots to trip a 2-pole breaker.

 

[1ownerT]

Thats not a problem: It was a common practice until the 1997 NEC code outlawed it. The only problem is that if there is a problem with either leg, then both legs will trip together.

It does not take a fault on both hots to trip a 2-pole breaker.

Makes one wonder why they outlawed it.

 

[00blackroush]

one way to do it easy is to make a ext cord and plug it where your dryer goes if you have elec dryer.i didnt have room on my panel so they wanted to put new service in wow 1500.00 ill stick with the ext

 

[Sir Loyn of Beephe]

Makes one wonder why they outlawed it.

There were some instances where it was causing confusion: especially in cases where people tried to remodel their kitchens by themselves and mistakenly ran both hots to both the disposal and the dishwasher, or tied the red and black wires together underneath the sink.

It used to be done simply because it was a little quicker to run one 12-3 romex for both appliances than two run two seperate 12-2s.

 

[avsfan733]

whoever said it was right they do choose the smallest boxes possible. I used to wire new homes and, assuming you have a spec house, they know the footage of wire, the number of everything and so yes the smallest box saves a few dollars. Seriously man just pay a certified electrician. I have my journeymans cert from VA and still managed to zap myself somewhat regularly.

I was onetime knocked off a ladder by a muscle spasm...i was redoing an office for a friend who said he turned off all the breakers, well he was wrong and i cut one of the 220 wires for the dishwasher and it zapped my arm so bad it convulsed and knocked me clean off the ladder with a shot to the chest. seriosly don't mess with electrons unless you are being megasafe. don't trust anyone else and double check yourself

 

[OH-MAN]

whoever said it was right they do choose the smallest boxes possible. I used to wire new homes and, assuming you have a spec house, they know the footage of wire, the number of everything and so yes the smallest box saves a few dollars. Seriously man just pay a certified electrician. I have my journeymans cert from VA and still managed to zap myself somewhat regularly.

I was onetime knocked off a ladder by a muscle spasm...i was redoing an office for a friend who said he turned off all the breakers, well he was wrong and i cut one of the 220 wires for the dishwasher and it zapped my arm so bad it convulsed and knocked me clean off the ladder with a shot to the chest. seriosly don't mess with electrons unless you are being megasafe. don't trust anyone else and double check yourself

This is great advice if it is only 6' to the outlet you need find an electrician it will not cost much. Messing around in the panel can get you dead quick. Knowing what's hot and not is worth the money.

 

[TOO Z MAXX]

I have one comment, the two breakers that are for the disposal and the diswasher need to be seperated, there should not be a jumper across them. Neither of those are 220 appliances, and they should be independent of each other. It is a 220 breaker but it is being used as two 110 circuits.

Actually that breaker has to be connected together with a jumper. The dishwasher and the disposal are 2 separate 120 volt circuits but they share a neutral wire. The reason they use a 2 pole breaker is to make sure the 2 circuits are wired 180 degres out of phase to each other, otherwise it could overload the neautral wire.

 

[JohnHenrys48]

Hey LuckyDevil, I think there's some good advice here about consulting with a professional. Since I'm not one, the following if for informational purposes only.

I ran a new sub-panel myself and found it not too difficult. My 200 Amp service is on the outside of my garage so I was able to come right through the wall. I used a 50 Amp 220 breaker wired with 6/3 to the sub-panel. That gave me a 50 Amp bus in the sub-panel that I ran 20 Amp GFI 110 outlets for my bench, 15 Amp 110 for ceiling lighting and two runs for 20 Amp 220 compressor and 30 Amp 220 welder outlets. I haven't finished the wiring for the compressor and welder yet but did wire up a 30 Amp 110 for use with my parents RV while they where here. I don't think I will run into an overload issue since I will be the only one working in the shop and I doubt the compressor and welder and bench circuts will be drawing at the same time. If so, I think I could switch to a 100 Amp breaker in the main and be safe with the 6/3. The bench wiring is 12/2 and the 220s will be 6/3.

I plan on having an electrician look over my work after I finish the 220's. Any professionaly here feel free educate me, I would sincerly appreciate it.

thanks,

Jim

 

[TOO Z MAXX]

I wouldnt run a 100 amp breaker with #6/3 wire. A 70 amp breaker is as high as I would go. You can get #2/3 copper wire and run that with the 100 amp breaker. Sounds like you have a short run from the sub panel to the main panel so it wouldnt be hard to do #2 can be tough to move around in a panel though

 

[JohnHenrys48]

Hey TOO Z MAXX,

Thanks for correcting me. That 6/3 was a bear to route in the box, I can't imagine the 2/3.

 

[1ownerT]

Actually that breaker has to be connected together with a jumper. The dishwasher and the disposal are 2 separate 120 volt circuits but they share a neutral wire. The reason they use a 2 pole breaker is to make sure the 2 circuits are wired 180 degres out of phase to each other, otherwise it could overload the neautral wire.

Just curious, how can you tell that they share a neutral wire.?

 

[TOO Z MAXX]

Just curious, how can you tell that they share a neutral wire.?

coming into the panel will be a romex cable with one red wire, one black wire, one white and a bare or green wire. The red and the black will run to the breakers, the white wire will run to to neutral buss and the bare or green wire will run to the ground bus. Its wired just like any other 220 circuit
On the other end the red wire will go to one outlet, the black wire to the other outlet. The white wire will connect to both outlets.

 

[1ownerT]

Cool, thanks!

 

[Elroy]

I have one comment, the two breakers that are for the disposal and the diswasher need to be seperated, there should not be a jumper across them. Neither of those are 220 appliances, and they should be independent of each other. It is a 220 breaker but it is being used as two 110 circuits.

Excellent observation.

 

[TOMWELDS]

Off the top of my head, the only time you use a 2pole breaker for 2 seperate 120volt circuits that share a neutral is, if they're feed a duplex receptacle. Ex: The neutral is feeding both halves of the duplex (top & bottom), and the black is feeding a circuit to the top half and the red is feeding the bottom half. remembering to break off the little jumper tab so you dont get a short. This is so the whole receptacle is shut off when servicing. Im describing this because it's common in shops, garages and kitchens.

 

[TOO Z MAXX]

Off the top of my head, the only time you use a 2pole breaker for 2 seperate 120volt circuits that share a neutral is, if they're feed a duplex receptacle. Ex: The neutral is feeding both halves of the duplex (top & bottom), and the black is feeding a circuit to the top half and the red is feeding the bottom half. remembering to break off the little jumper tab so you dont get a short. This is so the whole receptacle is shut off when servicing. Im describing this because it's common in shops, garages and kitchens.

Good Point TOMWELDS I forgot to mention cutting the tab between the top and bottom receptacles. Phase to Phase boom

 

[TOMWELDS]

Ive done it before..lol...

 

[sberry]

Off the top of my head, the only time you use a 2pole breaker for 2 seperate 120volt circuits that share a neutral is, if they're feed a duplex receptacle.

Its the only time you are REQUIRED to use 2 pole, I use 2 pole on all multiwire circuits.

 

[TOMWELDS]

Cary, i used to do the same and the inspectors started giving me shtick about it. They cant seem to think beyond that code book..LOL

 

[TOO Z MAXX]

Book smart inspectors drive me nuts. They are the ones that couldnt hack it in the field.

 

[TOMWELDS]

I only know one in my area that's remotly intelligent.