Setting up Paint Booth

[seanb02]

Hey folks, I am looking for input on setting up a paint booth in the shop for a project truck I am working on. The shop is approximately 40x100' the temporary paint booth will be set up in the back corner. Now my plan is to just use clear plastic sheet and temporary framework for the actual booth, but the issue is venting. How can that be set up so I'm not just pulling out overspray with a fan and blasting it all over the rest of the shop? There is no realistic way to vent to the outside as the shop is built into the hillside and the walls are essentially underground. Above is a second floor storage area, so venting upwards is out as well.

Since it is approximately 60' to the front doors of the shop, I can't come up with any logical ways of venting it outside. Is there some way to use a fan and filter of some sort that will pull the overspray into the filter? Or am I just going to have to go at it without any sort of fan and just sand the overspray that settles out of the clear coat afterwards?

Thanks

 

[carnutdallas]

You can buy a decent blow up booth and that is the best set up for temporary use and you can use it over and over.

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&k...9iZNpg9ilUEyTqwgrOpOUk5kg_E020RhoCO_MQAvD_BwE


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[didit]

I used to rent an actual booth from a paint/body shop during their off hours. Ask around and see if maybe that is possible where you are.

 

[like2wheel]

I don't think it's practical to do what you're asking for. You would need a very large filter area to be able to trap all the overspray without restricting airflow, & even if you did, you would not be removing the voc's (or worse yet- isocyanates if you're spraying 2k) from the area without some sort of giant activated charcoal filter.

It needs to be vented outside, I'd move the booth to the front. Or get 60' of large duct.

 

[seanb02]

Maybe it isn't feasible to do. That is why I wanted to toss the idea out there since I figured you guys might have a solution I hadn't thought of. Plan B might be to set up the booth area in a different portion of the shop and open up the floor upwards then put another fan upstairs exhausting out.

There used to be a section in the front of the shop set up for painting right inside of the shop doors. However there is a lot more going on around the farm during the winter than there used to be, so closing down the entire shop for a few days while paint cures isn't an option anymore. I did take a tractor apart and paint it in the rear of the shop last winter, and it was rather shocking to me just how much overspray landed everywhere, but being a tractor I wasn't concerned with the finish being perfect.

Overspray is all I was thinking of in regards to filtration rather than the VOCs put off by the process since I will be wearing a respirator. It's not as though the shop is sealed up well, there is still plenty of airflow in there to clear the air overnight after painting.

 

[pepi]

Actually having done one, some food for thought. A down draft paint booth controls over spray the best. With that in mind, got as close to that as I could.

Using a 3 ton air handler, 12" flex duct.

Air filters were plain old AC filters, also at floor level. All air is moving across the floor. Over spay naturally falls to the floor

You can see the blower pulling the air along the floor, notice plastic

Close the door, go to work, did not have any over spray of trash in the paint, 2 stage paint.

Hope this will help you get something going. Covered the floor with paint tarps, sealed the top and sides of the room with plastic.

Buying a spray gun, most important spec to look for. The one that produces the least amount of over spray, that is a spec.

 

[atch]

Suggest you go to this thread and peruse starting with post #1049 and going off and on for several pages.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, Perhaps an Electrostatic Painting System can be incorporated into your plans?

I only know about them in theory, but what I understand is you need a DC Power Supply; one pole of the output is attached to the gun and the other pole is connected to the object to be painted. I have not researched the voltages involved or the polarity. Maybe a painter can help us with the details?

 

[sberry]

You have to draw the fumes to the outside, if you got to dig outside you could? Building a paint bay is a good thing on a farm. When I get to my office will post how to do curtains. It can be easy and fast to use, I can set mine in about 5 minutes.

 

[ScottsGT]

I did this, but vented to the outside. Now what I did outside made all the difference in the world. I made a duct out of plastic and on the end I taped a 5 gallon bucket to it with the bottom cut out. All around the edges I installed about 12-20 of those small spray heads for individual watering of flowers. Basically, all the fumes had to go through the water spray. It did a great job of trapping ALL of the paint. Wife said no smell outside of the garage, no paint over spray blowing everywhere.

My "booth" was built out of 1X4's and heavy plastic sheet with a very large antique fan forcing air into the booth, filtered of course before and after the fan. Booth blew up like a balloon. This should have been my clue that I did not have enough exit. Took a while for all the fumes to clear out of my booth.

But not having a place to exit your shop might be a problem. Can you move the booth closer to the door? I had about 30' of duct I made, but I think shorter would have been more effective.

 

[sberry]

There is a good tutorial I wish I had saved as a file, maybe I do yet but explains how a booth operates. This has some fundamental principles similar to electrical grounding in the sense that,,, once a guy understands how air is moved and a couple fundamentals of ventelation it becomes not only easier to do but instinct to be able to hold a dope party in a dorm room. Can smoke in there without smelling a thing in the rest of the building. I can have heaters, cutting welding, a wedding on the other side and not even smell it, only till after a paint job we get some waft and often able to manage it or leave at some point.

 

[sberry]

My "booth" was built out of 1X4's and heavy plastic sheet with a very large antique fan forcing air into the booth, filtered of course before and after the fan. Booth blew up like a balloon. This should have been my clue that I did not have enough exit. Took a while for all the fumes to clear out of my booth.

Mine has no fan blowing in, at one time I had some assist but since got rid of it, was more to direct some warm air. I resized fan once, should have done it earlier to save power/heat when I was busy, I kind of run it then retired and fixed it,,, ha
.

 

[sberry]

A guy I was working with that was a terrible worker must have taken a class where some had made an impression, I was trying to do something and he look at me and says ,,, negative draw on the booth. This lead to me at some point in reading a little about how it works and the difference between it and a clean room yu blow up like a ballon and one you draw on, move air thru and pull the fumes out,
Fumes sucked out, not blown everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sberry]

So,,, ideally is to divide the room, it doesnt always have to be but it orders the air, put operator in a better pathway, can direct heat, can run live equipment in other areas of the building,,, I ramp up wood stove and turn on a furnace.

 

[sberry]

Ok, took a call. Look at the curtains here. 1st pic is fan off, simply hanging and maybe even a llittle breeze blowing in from the exhaust, 2nd pic, fan on, corners of curtains drawn tight, curtains pulled in, most air being drawn over the top in the end, sizes so it has a slight draw as it does every other crack and pulls thru the booth.
In this case warmest air from the top of the building being down drafted to a fan on the other end.

 

[sberry]

There is a filter I thro in front of it.
The guys that are using 2x4 are trying to frame a tarp, that will work but there are easier ways to store it all. I use the same plastic for 25 years now, only reason its not clearer than it is or has damage is stupid **** someone did and even technology has helped a little.
Now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, this principle can be applied and tailored for all kinds of setups.
One of the things I read in to the op was the need to perform timely work, means some investigation in to creating something that works well, is fast, can be stored very quick, not in the way etc.
Here is what I think about this to some extent. Might be worth it to consult, even pay for the work,, not talking about selling a guy a booth but construction. Like a lot of installs the experience can be worth it but no reason a competent hand cant do this. Farm paint goes in waves, can go a long time without then need it now.
This applies to rooms, garages, shops, have painted with box fans under the door and the window open. A good place to get a feel is one of those twin box fans in a window to a room with a door. Play with the gap of the door as inlet and feel for how much air moves. I wouldnt even know what readings on the gauges and the meters meant but can tell if the air is moving and gonna work right.
I can feel it and smell it. Not talking about that desensitized overwhelming but when first entering a place should be odor free or even standing next to the painter mixing and I am up wind.

 

[sberry]

My net is slow, I hate to edit. But also, some places you would have to filter the incoming air, mine is good with leaks coming in along the floor a little and the air way over top. I usually turn it on before paint, then blow off my project and its really good vs the extra **** hanging around trappimng more than it takes out really.
If painting in a room then the air coming in is the air coming in but,,,,,,,,,,,, with a booth or divider the air needs to come in from the building to the booth or custom tailored by design. This is important in the concept because we gonna have someone come say they have a pressure booth at work,,, really they have a pressure regulated booth with the make up air, its still being drawn out.

 

[sberry]

Actually having done one, some food for thought. A down draft paint booth controls over spray the best. With that in mind, got as close to that as I could.

This is really good, shows the room sucked out. I am going to add without the intent of being a snob,,, very good for the first time and bet you could simplify or even modify a bit to make it more semi built in so to speak. A little might depend on whats back of the house etc.
You aint got any overspray, thats the point really, that and clearing air around the operator. Like any other tool there is a learning curve to operating the booth and its the handy guys keep fixing till it works. Its something that needs to be right but it doesnt need to be highly technical. Shoot the paint in to the air stream so to speak, I dont get spray because by the time it gets that far it has been gathered up, can see a little v shaped trail on the floor during big jobs and even wet filters but none on the wall a foot above the fan and not on the outside cause its been filtered.
Some of the auto paints are near dry by the time they hit the fan but equipment enamel is wet.
I sprayed 4 car rims yesterday, had them sitting on a box about 6 ft in front of the fan, didnt even put the curtain fown but,,, I shut all the big doors and opened the man/walk door to limit the air coming in and it whiz it right out, could see the overspray collected on the paint fan filters. Red was the last color I sprayed and this was black.
The red was a machine paint that was on the back of a nice tractor, I didnt want to take it off so I backed the tractor in, hung the booth and painted the machine on it. No overspray ahead of the item I was painting or anywhere else in the booth.
I was in a hurry and didnt occur to take a pic.

 

[Slednut]

I have what the OP is wanting to do, it works really well except for one problem. The plastic makes static electricity a lot worse than a real paint booth. Keeping debris out of the paint is almost impossible. I now always add a couple coats of clear so I can hopefully cut those spots out.

I painted these fenders yesterday.

If I were the OP I would find a place close to a window or garage door so the booth can be vented to the outside. Also remember that if the shop is sealed up the air has to find its way into the booth or the fan will suffer cavitation and not move air.

You will also end up with over spray in the shop if the intake isn't far enough away from the exhaust. I'm lucky because I have a door I hardly use in the back of my shop.

BTW this is the third time I've set this up, I buy new 6 mil plastic each time.

 

[larry4406]

Slednut - You have posted parts of your booth here and there on various threads.

Do you have a single thread where all the details are shared?

I need to do this one day..

 

[johninct]

You need suction to take the overspray out. Just use a proper sized explosion proof fan and **** it out and vent it outside. Use furnace filters on the inside to have air drawn through into the booth.

 

[seanb02]

Some great ideas in here guys, thanks! I'm formulating a plan now, will have drop down plastic curtains that can be rolled back up out of the way afterwards and reused. Not sure exactly how to tie the corners in the plastic together in a quick efficient way. Could use clothspins, but it would take a bit of time to do rather than drop and go kind of thing.

Also how to attach the filter so it doesn't have to be taped to the plastic each time. After more thought I'm definitely going to vent out to the upper floor. This is an old hop drying barn built in the 1920's, the upper floor is 4,000 square feet of floor space with 25' height to the lower rafters then keeps on going up from there. It's drafty up there, and it is all storage so I don't see any issues with pushing the air into that area to get the fumes out of the shop portion.

I remembered there is an old chute of some sort off on one wall that goes upstairs, something like 12x16", I'll just close that in down to floor level so that it pulls in off of the floor rather than up high. Now the question is should the fan be installed at the bottom pushing the air out and up, or at the top pulling the air through?

Also where would I go about purchasing such a fan, I'm assuming a regular box fan won't do it for this application?

Another question, the existing chute that I have mentioned is framed in with wooden planks, is this going to be sufficient or does it need to have ducting installed inside since the wood will have slight air gaps in it?

I'll try and get some pictures of what I have to work with tomorrow to give you guys some more ideas of exactly what I'm dealing with in here. Thanks again!

 

[atch]

Fan needs to be explosion-proof.

That can be either an expensive purpose built fan with explosion-proof motor OR a squirrel cage fan where the motor is not in the air stream.

I'm thinking the squirrel cage fan from an old furnace should work nicely and be extremely inexpensive if not free.

Assuming the fan you use has sufficient CFM capabilities I would put it at the at the top pulling the air through. Then it will be sucking air through those gaps you're referencing. You wouldn't need to spend any money or time installing ducting inside the chute. I don't think you would want to install the fan at the bottom and be forcing air through this chute, which would be forcing particulate/fumes out through those gaps and into your shop.

Of course this advice is probably worth just about what you paid for it.

 

[johninct]

Some great ideas in here guys, thanks! I'm formulating a plan now, will have drop down plastic curtains that can be rolled back up out of the way afterwards and reused. Not sure exactly how to tie the corners in the plastic together in a quick efficient way. Could use clothspins, but it would take a bit of time to do rather than drop and go kind of thing.

Also how to attach the filter so it doesn't have to be taped to the plastic each time. After more thought I'm definitely going to vent out to the upper floor. This is an old hop drying barn built in the 1920's, the upper floor is 4,000 square feet of floor space with 25' height to the lower rafters then keeps on going up from there. It's drafty up there, and it is all storage so I don't see any issues with pushing the air into that area to get the fumes out of the shop portion.

I remembered there is an old chute of some sort off on one wall that goes upstairs, something like 12x16", I'll just close that in down to floor level so that it pulls in off of the floor rather than up high. Now the question is should the fan be installed at the bottom pushing the air out and up, or at the top pulling the air through?

Also where would I go about purchasing such a fan, I'm assuming a regular box fan won't do it for this application?

Another question, the existing chute that I have mentioned is framed in with wooden planks, is this going to be sufficient or does it need to have ducting installed inside since the wood will have slight air gaps in it?

I'll try and get some pictures of what I have to work with tomorrow to give you guys some more ideas of exactly what I'm dealing with in here. Thanks again!

Vent it outside, not upstairs. It could become a fire hazard and once outside, the overspray will blow away.

 

[Slednut]

Slednut - You have posted parts of your booth here and there on various threads.

Do you have a single thread where all the details are shared?

I need to do this one day..

PM sent

 

[sberry]

I dont worry about explosion proof directly as much as getting a fire in the exhaust with fan running. In an old building with wood raceway, paint and air,,, what could go wrong?
Some steel duct might be in order, fiber glass where it passes thru wood etc. Dust and cobwebs, paint sticks to all that stuff and would neary go ****, of course everyone will say explosion pruf but its really a motor, electric, smoking fire etc.

 

[Fishn1]

Safety is everything. A very small spark could make a very large boom. Even lights could make a small spark. Try keeping them outside the plastic.
Keep your eye on government surplus auctions. I bought two explosion proof fans from a fire department for 35.00 a piece. They really push the air, and fast. Bet they normally sell for hundreds new.

 

[seanb02]

Never really considered the fumes being that easy to cause a massive fireball. Have sprayed in the garage at home before by just opening the roll up door a couple feet and lining up 3 regular box fans underneath. Knowing the risk definitely makes me think a little more about the process and I certainly want to set it up the right way so there is minimal risk. Don't need to be burning down a 100 year old structure or killing myself in the process!

Here are a few pictures of what I have to work with. First and second picture is the old chute that I am planning to use as the vent, as mentioned will enclose it down to floor level. Third picture gives you a better idea of the area I am planning on turning into the painting section, basically where the car is currently sitting on that side of the posts. The posts do make it a little more difficult to get things into that area for painting, but I'm not planning on parking an entire truck over there, the pieces from the truck project will all fit in there just fine and the tractors needing paint will also fit no problem.

The fourth picture shows the truck in another portion of the shop, the original area I was thinking of setting up for painting is where the bed is currently sitting, but after thinking more about the ventilation aspect it just won't work there and I can't really get a tractor into that portion anyway. Last picture shows the remainder of the chute upstairs, I'll just cut an opening to install a fan somewhere depending on what type of fan I can source. Currently there are no windows up there it is wide open so no lack of ventilation or concern of fumes building up.

 

[johninct]

I took an autobody class where during the day some kid got the idea to kill a bug with a lighter....

 

[ford33]

As an alternative to setting up your own booth, have you looked into local colleges for automotive repair classes? Perhaps they will allow you to work on your own vehicle.

My local community college offers evening study autobody repair classes. I enrolled in the class to repair some rust on my van and I had access to tools and two commercial grade paint spray booths. Most of the "students" were local car guys fixing up their classics. They would bring them in on a trailer, offload to the booth and start painting. The next morning they would pick up the vehicles before day classes started. My class would start at 6 pm and end at 9 or 9:30 pm. You could get there early if needed.

It was fun and I learned autobody repair techniques from the instructor and other students.

 

[sberry]

Thats not a bad idea but I can see the op, this as a place that needs a place to spray and its very doable.

 

[sberry]

The back corner, dont get stuck on that wood thingy, looks like you could get out but,,, you need to sheet the ceiling. A couple pieces of flashing and I could do this with 2 rollups. Would put the fan upstairs going out and duct work all the way to the floor down the wall inside, real simple but you got to eliminate air coming in from that room other than where you pull it which would be overhead at this end.
The good thing is could make this about a 5 minute rig up and put a paint bench down at the fan end. This would be downdraft semi down draft and that really keeps the dirt out of the paint.

 

[sberry]

This could be done well in that place. I have a bench in my booth, just painted a set of rims now. Last 2 pics are after and before. I finally cleaned up some **** that had grown roots there and consolidated a few things, added a supply cab vs that shelf just taking up space. I think I found another shelf fit in since and had simply set the ladders in the recoverd space for a minute but was like a free addition simply adding a cab and moving junk out. I actually made something from the pieces I recovered.
I actually cut the wheels and handles off the paper machine and moved them so it wheeled under the shelf. It was always in the way and awkward to move. After I did it realized could have got 6 more inches for free by putting them on the other end,, ha

 

[sberry]

Thats a pretty nice place, you got it picked up and lit. You SHOULD add paint to it.

 

[sberry]

The vac draws the plastic corner together and it takes only a couple pins and at the walls can tack up a flashing its drawn up against and even use a couple magnets, takes a minute. The secret here isnt to take it down and out of the way but roll it up out of the way. One wall of mineis big and I used a boat winch, 20x40 sheet, the end is smaller, 15x15 and I simply pull the strings, actually 3/16 nylon rope. If you have alum irrigation pipe its perfect, I used a nice straight 5 inch I found for my long one and 3 strings, for a shorter install could use a 4 inch and 2.

 

[seanb02]

As an alternative to setting up your own booth, have you looked into local colleges for automotive repair classes? Perhaps they will allow you to work on your own vehicle.

My local community college offers evening study autobody repair classes. I enrolled in the class to repair some rust on my van and I had access to tools and two commercial grade paint spray booths. Most of the "students" were local car guys fixing up their classics. They would bring them in on a trailer, offload to the booth and start painting. The next morning they would pick up the vehicles before day classes started. My class would start at 6 pm and end at 9 or 9:30 pm. You could get there early if needed.

It was fun and I learned autobody repair techniques from the instructor and other students.

Thats not a bad idea but I can see the op, this as a place that needs a place to spray and its very doable.

Not interested in taking classes at the current time. sberry is right, I need a paint area set up in this shop for all the farm equipment and other projects that constantly come through here. This is not just a hobby shop, I've got anything from small equipment to passenger vehicles, all the way up to dump trucks and big tractors that come through here. The classic pickup is just my own personal project that doesn't get attention often enough.

 

[seanb02]

Thats a pretty nice place, you got it picked up and lit. You SHOULD add paint to it.

Thanks for all the input, I'll definitely be taking some of your ideas to set it up in here in the best configuration possible.

It is a nice shop now. When I first got here there was about 800 square feet of useable space with everywhere else full of stuff just piled up that hadn't been properly put away. Over the years I've managed to reclaim all 4,000 square feet and turn it all into useable space for projects and parts storage. Used to be dimly lit with a few scattered fluorescent light fixtures scattered around only half working. Now its all LED tubes and every corner is lit up quite nicely. Put several grand into the lighting, but it has certainly paid for itself with the productivity increases.

I try to do everything possible in house, only when there is multiple repairs starting to pile up is when stuff like small equipment and passenger vehicle repairs get sent out to other shops. Besides the paint booth, the only other things I wish were able to have set up would be a machine shop portion, tire machines, and a two post lift. None of those are likely to ever happen however, but the way it is works quite well for now with the minimal work having to be done by other shops here and there.

 

[sberry]

Do one thing at a time. I am going to gallery in the other forum at some point.
Collect vs build and buy new. You need some shelves to collect the work needed for pit stop. I was walking across the place 4x a week for golf cart oil. The thing about shelves can box up some stuff is similar. Back in the day so much was job shop built. It's a little like Tig. I really don't need it and couldn't cover the equipment especially if i prep, and the spool gun replaced mine for crisis fix.
My neighbor, has a shop, got a couple buds, do it labor free, I never go there. I got a fix for most stuff, I salvage some specialty parts. I collect some as they come by. I took a blower, didn't really need it but the motor was another matter and better when mine ****, some odd fit, I didn't have and the bobber fussed plus it 150 $ and I had it on the bench in 20 mins.
I could find my way around a tool or 2 but I really rarely use a drill press. Most blade saw done with battery recip on the bench. I square cut chop saw and ain't scared to blow a bolt hole with a plasma.
All that machine is too tedious, I can do most of it faster other way and lots of parts now modular and shopping is so much better and i aint standing there all day to fix **** i could buy at 8$ an hour. Its a whole nuther layer of **** and. I am a blood relative of MyGyver.
Tires are another mess but I use mine enough it's worth having, you got a lot on wheels it's worth it. A lot of salvage and repair and you want it when you want it. Get it out of the way as much as you can, you not using it all day every day, it's in the way, I got mine in another building.
I think,,, you should fix up the booth and race to a hoist even using a credit card. I should have bought mine 10 yrs earlier.
As for paint. I do some repair and the next guy is just as good but I get to paint it, I do, even if it is spray can or brush,,, but I can get equipment in and have a couple customers that bring fab but don't blink when I add on paint. Not every piece all the time but they trust and say,,, it needed it. I hot pressure wash, that is a big deal, they know if it's dirty will be 50$clean, they pay anything I itemize. The paint makes a difference, it's like ****** hand write and typed. You got to be rigged fast and easy and I stock a few things so I don't got to stop to get for common work.

 

[carnutdallas]

This is the only safe way, period:




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[seanb02]

Plans are coming along quite well for the paint booth project. Picked up 14 sheets of 7/16" OSB to sheet the ceiling area with. Will paint them semi-gloss white to help reflect light before installing them. Can't believe how expensive wood is right now, $26 per sheet for the OSB which was much cheaper than regular plywood would have been! Also picked up a couple rolls of 6 mil clear plastic sheeting. Will sheet the ceiling before installing the OSB to keep any particles from falling through between the seams in the wood.

Planning on doing 6 roll up sections, that way I can either have it set up as a smaller 12x13' room, or go to a bigger 13x26' room for larger projects. Also picked up a couple more light fixtures, since they are LED and won't get hot I'm not overly worried about having the lights inside of the room, not really any different than setting up stand lights in there. Ordered a bunch of magnets to hold the edges of the drop down panels to the steel columns, figured that would be easier than a bunch of clips holding the corners together.

Have a blower fan on order, its not a explosion proof fan, however it does have a sealed motor and with the CFM capacity there should not be anywhere near enough build up of solvents in there to cause any kind of ignition.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GHNKU0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm going to use sberry's idea of the irrigation pipe to roll the plastic around and it will also keep it weighted down against the floor. Have plenty of that around the farm, there is a pile that has pin holes, I'll just sacrifice a couple from that stack since they need repaired anyway.

Also planning on building a bench up against the side with the concrete wall for mixing and cleanup purposes. Another thing I am pondering is whether it would be worth the time to run a hard line over into this area for compressed air, then just hook a hose up inside rather than snake the line across the floor of the shop into the booth when it comes time to paint.

Still need to order some furnace filters for the intake side of things, but so far plans seem to falling into place rather nicely!