Sewer Snake

[MacMcMacmac]

I have a friend who I'm quite sure has a plugged sewer lateral. I have a good idea why, but talking about it leads to the exchange of heated opinions, so lets just say it's not a collapsed pipe or root intrusions.

Floor drains back up when the washer drains. Not a lot, about a 5 sq ft circle of water, so it is obviously still passing some water through. The drains will revert back to normal level if left alone.

She is not able to undertake this herself. She's not flush with cash and is worried about a large plumbing bill.

She thinks the problem is the huge amount of rain we received on the 1st. Many flooded basements here, but not hers. She thinks the sewer is overloaded and it's preventing the evacuation of her line. I said that's highly unlikely 72 hrs after the event, but she wants to wait another day to make sure. I've explained sanitary vs storm sewer but it hasn't changed her mind.

So, having once again to defer to "the internet" wisdom, I have to wait another day for things to shake out before the inevitable realization the the lateral is indeed plugged.

So, seeing as how this will once again fall to me to take care of, can someone suggest what I would need? I see snakes for rent from Home Depot. I have seen old style flat steel band snakes being used for this purpose before. It had a large brush head on the end. It worked well.

I'm wondering what the difference is between a 1/2" and 5/8" snake is. Drive cable size? Do the heads pull themselves forward, or must they be hand fed?

Would you recommend renting a camera as well? Can both be used at the same time to monitor progress, obviously keeping the camera back from the cutting head.

I told her to get an estimate for the job and hire a pro, but she figures shes always going to get screwed.

Looking forward to this like a kick in the nads. Happy 4th!

 

[zendriver]

"Steel band snakes" ****

Rent one with a root cutting blade if there are trees in the are of the line. We had roots cut out professionally but the line was only about 6' long so I probably could have done it myself.

How long is the line to where they think it goes?

It great it at least drains.

Have fun.

 

[mikey03]

Rent one with a root cutting blade if there are trees in the are of the line. We had roots cut out professionally but the line was only about 6' long so I probably could have done it myself.

if it turns out you got roots in the line, does that mean the roots broke through into the pipes? If you the cut roots won’t that mean the pipes have a hole in it that leak out? Or are you just cutting some of the root that is inside but the rest of the root is still there and keeping the hole shut?

 

[rlitman]

if it turns out you got roots in the line, does that mean the roots broke through into the pipes?...

The camera will tell you that. If it's full of dirt, then yeah. But any crack or poorly sealed joint will leak, and roots will follow the water source. So if it's just roots intruding in a loose joint, then you may be fine (as I was).

 

[mikey03]

The camera will tell you that. If it's full of dirt, then yeah. But any crack or poorly sealed joint will leak, and roots will follow the water source. So if it's just roots intruding in a loose joint, then you may be fine (as I was).

But if you see roots doesn’t that mean the pipe is broken? So If you cut roots the pipe is still broke even though you cleared the roots?

 

[kbuhagiar]

OP clearly stated it was NOT a root intrusion.
I'll bet it has something to do with flushable (not!) wipes.

 

[rlitman]

But if you see roots doesn’t that mean the pipe is broken? So If you cut roots the pipe is still broke even though you cleared the roots?

Depends on the pipe, but not necessarily. Roots don't absolutely mean the pipe is broken. In the past, terracotta pipes might have been placed with nothing (or just oakum) packing the hubs. Nobody cared if they leaked a little, and that'll happen if the earth shifts at all. All it takes is a big enough opening for water to get out, for roots to find their way in, but roots on their own don't have to destroy the pipe.

 

[signcrafter]

OP clearly stated it was NOT a root intrusion.
I'll bet it has something to do with flushable (not!) wipes.

Reading the OP post leads me to believe the same, or feminine products.

Since it's slowly draining you have a partial block in the line. The volume of water from the washer can't flow through the block fast enough and blocks up, let it sit and it slowly goes down. Depending on the blockage it can trap more stuff and block up worse. It's not the storm water causing this.

What size and pipe and how long of a run from the drain/clean out to the street? I have a ridgid k-400 drum machine and it can open up a 3" or 4" line depending on the blockage but a bigger machine would be better. The cutting heads aren't big enough to clean all the sides of the pipe. I bought a sewer camera off amazon that works really good. This is the one I bought for 450 dollars but isn't available anymore, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0874VT178?tag=atomicindus08-20. I bought it after the guys boring the lines for fiber went through my sewer and I had a similar situation that it would back up and then slowly drain and my machine couldn't get through the blockage. After I saw the orange plastic looking object in my sewer I wished my auger would have went through their conduit.

Another option if it is wipes or similar is a jetter attachment for a pressure washer. I bought this one but haven't used it, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TMBN987?tag=atomicindus08-20. This should be able clear wipes and clean the walls of the pipe.

 

[larry4406]

Don’t they make a balloon like device that expands and plugs the line while applying pressurized water to blow the slug down the line?

 

[Beerhippie]

OP clearly stated it was NOT a root intrusion.
I'll bet it has something to do with flushable (not!) wipes.

White Owl Cigars--feminine sanitary stuff that also is not flushable.

 

[larry4406]

White Owl Cigars--feminine sanitary stuff that also is not flushable.

Many folks think “flushable” means will it go down.

Few actually ponder if it “should” go down.

 

[signcrafter]

Many folks think “flushable” means will it go down.

Few actually ponder if it “should” go down.

They usually go down just fine, it's how far they go after leaving the toilet that is the question. Most people think just because it went with the water in the toilet bowl that it flushed just fine. They don't think about the long sewer pipe running out to the street because they can't see it.

I've always wondered how the companies that make "flushable" products get away with advertising that. Every municipality and plumber and anyone else that has ever had to deal with this will tell you not to. The only one that says it's fine is the company making the products. They should also be paying when the products back up the pipes.

 

[Beerhippie]

They usually go down just fine, it's how far they go after leaving the toilet that is the question. Most people think just because it went with the water in the toilet bowl that it flushed just fine. They don't think about the long sewer pipe running out to the street because they can't see it.

I've always wondered how the companies that make "flushable" products get away with advertising that. Every municipality and plumber and anyone else that has ever had to deal with this will tell you not to. The only one that says it's fine is the company making the products. They should also be paying when the products back up the pipes.

Much worse on a septic system.

 

[signcrafter]

Much worse on a septic system.

Yes since you are basically your own treatment plant and get to pay for all the repairs. We bought a house 3 years ago that has septic, first for me. I had always told the wife and kids nothing but toilet paper, pee, and poop goes down the toilet, but reminded them again strongly when we moved into the house. Also told her we aren't using the garbage disposal and not to put any grease down the sink.

 

[MacMcMacmac]

I'm assuming a standard 4" iron pipe. House was built in 1959. No problems as long as I've lived in this city (25yrs) but I've witnessed the flushing of paper towels recently which raises my suspicions. There is a reason public toilets ask you not to flush hand towels. I noticed someone at Princess Auto didn't quite get the message and dropped some well-used TP in a bucket there. Awkward....

The house has an old style side by side 2" clean out port in the basement floor. Is there any way to tell which goes to the lateral and which goes back into the house before I crack either open? Trying to open a 67 year old pipe plug might be a job in itself.

 

[Beerhippie]

Yes since you are basically your own treatment plant and get to pay for all the repairs. We bought a house 3 years ago that has septic, first for me. I had always told the wife and kids nothing but toilet paper, pee, and poop goes down the toilet, but reminded them again strongly when we moved into the house. Also told her we aren't using the garbage disposal and not to put any grease down the sink.

Gee, good luck with that!

Growing up on a sailboat, the rule was "unless you've eaten it, it doesn't flush."

 

[Beerhippie]

I'm assuming a standard 4" iron pipe. House was built in 1959. No problems as long as I've lived in this city (25yrs) but I've witnessed the flushing of paper towels recently which raises my suspicions. There is a reason public toilets ask you not to flush hand towels. I noticed someone at Princess Auto didn't quite get the message and dropped some well-used TP in a bucket there. Awkward....

The house has an old style side by side 2" clean out port in the basement floor. Is there any way to tell which goes to the lateral and which goes back into the house before I crack either open? Trying to open a 67 year old pipe plug might be a job in itself.

Get some of your favorite penetrant on them NOW. Start the heating cycle, too. I like to heat stuff until the oil smokes, then apply more oil.

 

[signcrafter]

Gee, good luck with that!

Growing up on a sailboat, the rule was "unless you've eaten it, it doesn't flush."

I've trained them for years on that stuff so they are good about it. Especially after I told her if our septic fails it's really expensive to replace and I'm not allowed to do the work myself so would have to pay someone. It's 45 years old so I told her we need to take care of it or we most likely will be paying big bucks to have a new one installed. I do work for a handful of restaurants so I have a fair share of experience with drain issues over the years. So she knows I've dealt with this stuff and listens pretty good.

 

[signcrafter]

I'm assuming a standard 4" iron pipe. House was built in 1959. No problems as long as I've lived in this city (25yrs) but I've witnessed the flushing of paper towels recently which raises my suspicions. There is a reason public toilets ask you not to flush hand towels. I noticed someone at Princess Auto didn't quite get the message and dropped some well-used TP in a bucket there. Awkward....

The house has an old style side by side 2" clean out port in the basement floor. Is there any way to tell which goes to the lateral and which goes back into the house before I crack either open? Trying to open a 67 year old pipe plug might be a job in itself.

Sounds like you have an old U trap that they used to put in houses. They ****. The one closest to the wall goes to street and the one a few inches more into the house will be the house side. I would open the street one first. Like beerhippie said spray it and heat it hot. Then use a really long pipe wrench. Or your longest pipe wrench and a cheater pipe on the handle. Guessing it has the square nub sticking up to grab onto? If you twist that off then just carefully cut or chisel out the rest of the plug. Then replace with plastic.

 

[Beerhippie]

I've trained them for years on that stuff so they are good about it. Especially after I told her if our septic fails it's really expensive to replace and I'm not allowed to do the work myself so would have to pay someone. It's 45 years old so I told her we need to take care of it or we most likely will be paying big bucks to have a new one installed. I do work for a handful of restaurants so I have a fair share of experience with drain issues over the years. So she knows I've dealt with this stuff and listens pretty good.

First question is "where is the damned septic tank clean-out hatch"? I've spent days probing with an iron rod before finding them. Hopefully, it's a metal cover and you can use a detector, but most often they're concrete.

I hate anything to do with drains, but septic systems the most. My cabin shares a common tank with two other rentals, so having it cleaned is a regular problem. New, young, gal just moved in next door, so I already warned the landlord to be prepared.

 

[zendriver]

But if you see roots doesn’t that mean the pipe is broken? So If you cut roots the pipe is still broke even though you cleared the roots?

How old is the house?

If it is old enough to have clay tile drain lines is can easily have root intrusion. it can have a broken tile as well.

 

[signcrafter]

First question is "where is the damned septic tank clean-out hatch"? I've spent days probing with an iron rod before finding them. Hopefully, it's a metal cover and you can use a detector, but most often they're concrete.

I hate anything to do with drains, but septic systems the most. My cabin shares a common tank with two other rentals, so having it cleaned is a regular problem. New, young, gal just moved in next door, so I already warned the landlord to be prepared.

I don't know if it's lucky for me or not but mine isn't buried very deep so the concrete lid is visible. Had it pumped and inspected last year, state requires that every 3 years. Mine is just a single chamber vault and then a leach field. Guy that did the inspection said everything looked good and if I take care of it then it should last a while yet. Said if it does fail I need to upgrade to some new fancy system the county requires now that cost a lot.

We live in the township but right across the street is a new subdivision that was annexed for the city that has sewer and water. We have our own sewer but share a well with the neighbor. Kind of wish they would run sewer and water to us just so I don't have to worry about septic failing and I like the well but don't like sharing with others. So far it's fine but I like being independent and "partnerships" usually end up having issues. No clue how the well thing worked out with the previous owners but we have an easement and the well is at neighbors house and they pay electricity for it and we split repairs. So we get free water. But last week the neighbor sold his house and the new owner didn't switch electricity over right away I guess so we had no water. I had to call old neighbor to get new neighbors number and call him and explain that we need water. He came to his house and called power company and got it worked out. We were both friendly about it and got to meet each other. He did ask how it works if he just sends us a bill at the end of the year. He was a little shocked when I told him that the easement says they pay for electricity for the pump. There is no meter so no clue how he would even bill us for the water we use. Everything worked out but I would rather be independent and not rely on a neighbor. May still have problems with public water but I have more faith in a public utility then a random person when it comes to issues.

 

[Beerhippie]

if I take care of it then it should last a while yet

Just don't learn the hard way, like a neighbor of mine, not to park a full-size Class A motorhome on it. While it was fun to watch, getting the rear wheels out of the top of the vault was expensive, as was replacing the lid.

 

[signcrafter]

Just don't learn the hard way, like a neighbor of mine, not to park a full-size Class A motorhome on it. While it was fun to watch, getting the rear wheels out of the top of the vault was expensive, as was replacing the lid.

I tend to learn lots of things the hard way but something like shouldn't take any teaching to know. Did he drive over his leach field also?

 

[Beerhippie]

I tend to learn lots of things the hard way but something like shouldn't take any teaching to know. Did he drive over his leach field also?

He parked the motorhome, two cars, two trucks and a large boat right on top of it. I tried to warn him....

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Got a quote for $825 just to snake it out from a plumber. Could be higher depending on what he finds.

I contracted another company to come have a look for a $99 diagnostic fee. Probably won't be any cheaper.

Looks like I know what I'll be doing tomorrow.

 

[Hakeem]

Pulled these out of the ejector sump at a rental property. Did it myself to save the tenants some money over hiring a plumber, only for them to balk at paying $300 for the sewer snake and my time. Next time I’m calling a plumber and handing them the invoice.

No good deed goes unpunished……

 

[Mirage]

Went through this recently with a 1930 house, had a young guy getting started on his own run a snake from the toilet (I had already pulled it) we discussed having another guy he works with coming and running a camera and locating the sewer line and installing an external cleanout. He comes out finds one buried outside and the whole outside already replaced in pvc short one clay section which I believe is under the sidewalk. Kept getting backups so we called the city utility, they jetted our line from the cleanout, determined the main line was flowing slowly and called in a work order for that crew to come out and inspect the main line. City guy also told us just call them 24/7 and holidays and they will handle anything from an external cleanout to the street for free for us, even if the policy states only the right of way (property line). I know I have clay pipes still buried from the gutters (not used) so I was worried the sewer was still going to be fully clay piped.

 

[Junkman]

I had a similar problem and had a plumber come with a camera. The cast iron pipe had rotted out at the bottom, and the TP was getting caught on the sharp edges of the hole. I had to get a company with a large excavator to come in and dig up the old line and replace it with a PVC line. My line is 9' below the surface. I have the tank pumped every 3 years just as a precaution so it doesn't fail. A new system will cost over $30,000, I was told.

 

[signcrafter]

Went through this recently with a 1930 house, had a young guy getting started on his own run a snake from the toilet (I had already pulled it) we discussed having another guy he works with coming and running a camera and locating the sewer line and installing an external cleanout. He comes out finds one buried outside and the whole outside already replaced in pvc short one clay section which I believe is under the sidewalk. Kept getting backups so we called the city utility, they jetted our line from the cleanout, determined the main line was flowing slowly and called in a work order for that crew to come out and inspect the main line. City guy also told us just call them 24/7 and holidays and they will handle anything from an external cleanout to the street for free for us, even if the policy states only the right of way (property line). I know I have clay pipes still buried from the gutters (not used) so I was worried the sewer was still going to be fully clay piped.

That's good that the city will do that for you. Usually the city doesn't touch the line from the road to your house, that is all the home owner's responsibility everywhere I have been.