SG - Shop Air System

[Speedy!]

I run a youtube channel with "how to" type stuff. Finished up prepping the Quincy QT-54 for install and wrapped up the shop air system. Lemme know if this is stuff pertinent to this section and I'll post more.

Part 1 - QT-54 prep and electrical

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Part 2 - Hard Line Install and noise test

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Part 3 - Rapid Air Maxline Install

Pipe straightening jig was well worth the money. I got it from a gent on this forum after he completed his install. If someone needs it for theirs shoot me a PM.

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[Speedy!]

Part 2 posted. QT-54 sound tests as well to see how well the sound insulated closet worked.

 

[md21722]

Thanks for the videos, but this whole setup seems wrong to me.

NEMA plugs aren't rated for more than 3 HP so this should have been hard wired? And since the panel is more than 50' away or out of line of sight, a disconnect is needed.

How does that switch work? Is it rated as a motor control switch for 5HP? This is best done with a magnetic starter where the switch is in series with the magnetic starter coil.

QT-54 without intercooler & only a short whip hose to the first regulator? Chances are water will condensate near the point of use because there isn't enough piping to allow cooling. Regulators should be at point of use. Compressor should be 12-18" from wall for the flywheel fan to work correctly.

Nice video prep/quality, but technical points seem completely wrong.

 

[Speedy!]

You seem to know quite a bit about this, and obviously more than I do, but I did call Quincy and run all this by them during the construction of the shop and was told this was an acceptable solution for a "home" shop setup. I'll have to see how it does over time and add some filters at the use points if I run in to condensation issues.

Switch seems to work fine. It's a 30A switch that the electrician spec'd during construction as well as the plug in the wall for the compressor. I've been using the setup for about a month without any problems, although it is what I'm sure most would consider "light" duty so far.

The shop is air conditioned and cool air drawn in to the compressor closet via exhaust fan, but it is VERY humid in my area during the summer. If I get more condensation issues than expected and inline filters don't do the trick I'll put in an intercooler.

This setup is replacing a small 30 gallon unit I had been using and it only gave me a bit of condensation during heavy use in the middle of summer, but I do light automotive work and so far no painting. I'd likely need some kind of dryer setup if I move to paint in the future.

Thanks for the feedback so I know what to keep an eye on.

 

[md21722]

I'm sure it will work fine for light duty use, not painting cars, but rather impacts and stuff like that. What concerns me more is that this is going on Youtube and there are obvious electrical code violations... I'm not saying everyone I knew in TN didn't do the same thing, dryer cord to 30A outlet, and it didn't work, its just that its against code and its going on YouTube. Loved living in TN, great people there I still go back and see them.

 

[Speedy!]

Ah gotcha. I've found codes to be a funny thing during the shop build. Some stuff makes sense and some is really off the wall, but is what it is. Surprised this passed final inspection if it's a violation though? Maybe since the compressor wasn't in place at the time they let it go. There are plugs for a 50A welder as well as a 30A for the lift as well. I did plan to hardwire the lift but seems overkill for a compressor.

Part 3 will be the Maxline install.

Thanks again for the tips.

 

[md21722]

Codes for motor circuits are different than codes for resistive loads (like baseboard heat and clothes dryers) and welders. By code the NEC says get the HP off the motor nameplate and look up the FLC in the NEC charts. 5HP single phase has a FLC of 28A and wire to be sized 28A X 125% = 35A. #8 NM-b (Romex) or #10 THHN (in conduit) would be required. The copper wire size is the same between the two, but by code NM-b must use the 60C amperage rating, whereas THHN can use the 75C amperage rating. If the motor has thermal protection, either internally or with a magnetic starer, breaker size can be 28A X 250% = 70A maximum. The reality is a 30A works fine for most people. The plug is an issue because NEMA plugs are generally not rated more than 3HP. They do make them but they're expensive pin and sleeve types. The amp rating is OK but because of the motor (inductive) load, it can arc if you unplug it while the motor is spinning. Disconnect required if the compressor is more than 50 feet from the panel or out of line of sight of it. You likely passed because the compressor was not in place. Hope this helps understand some of the reasons behind the codes.

 

[Trey T]

I've used dryer plug for many years until I moved to a new home and it has worked well for me. I have a magnetic starter though w/ the overload protection.

It's cheaper to hardwire though.

 

[Speedy!]

Codes for motor circuits are different than codes for resistive loads (like baseboard heat and clothes dryers) and welders. By code the NEC says get the HP off the motor nameplate and look up the FLC in the NEC charts. 5HP single phase has a FLC of 28A and wire to be sized 28A X 125% = 35A. #8 NM-b (Romex) or #10 THHN (in conduit) would be required. The copper wire size is the same between the two, but by code NM-b must use the 60C amperage rating, whereas THHN can use the 75C amperage rating. If the motor has thermal protection, either internally or with a magnetic starer, breaker size can be 28A X 250% = 70A maximum. The reality is a 30A works fine for most people. The plug is an issue because NEMA plugs are generally not rated more than 3HP. They do make them but they're expensive pin and sleeve types. The amp rating is OK but because of the motor (inductive) load, it can arc if you unplug it while the motor is spinning. Disconnect required if the compressor is more than 50 feet from the panel or out of line of sight of it. You likely passed because the compressor was not in place. Hope this helps understand some of the reasons behind the codes.

Don't unplug the compressor while it's running or bad things can happen GOT IT. LOL

All kidding aside, I gotcha. That's what I mean about codes, it's usually to protect "stupid". My buddy mentioned something about it being a code to have it hard wired if the compressor was bolted to the floor for the same reason (arc).

Interesting conversation.

 

[Scotland Offshore ABZ]

I really like the vid, lots of info. What do you use the compressor for though? This would be useless for my line of work as I would empty the receiver in about 5 seconds. I have a portable compressor like this made by Ingersoll Rand and if I connect the big windy gun to it, its empty in about 5-6 seconds.

 

[Speedy!]

Automotive type work on mine and friend's cars. 1/2" impact and cut off/die grinder tools are probably the most draw on the system to date. I may get in to a little painting (small parts) as well down the road. I've been running on a 30 gallon Husky for years, so this is a significant upgrade for my place. Probably overkill for me actually, but figured buy it once this time (hopefully).

 

[Speedy!]

Final installment posted for the Maxline install. Good stuff and easy to use and I highly recommend it. I think it looks a lot better than the standard Rapid Air as it holds its shape. Thanks to the gent who sent me the pipe straightening tool. If someone else needs the straightener tool, shoot me a PM.

I got the kit at Northern Tool during one of their sales, but I wouldn't buy a pack of gum from them again to be honest. Two purchases with them have been major headaches. I had left over pieces from this project and they gave me a real hard time about returning them as it was past 30 days, even though I had a receipt and they were new in the box. I literally had to argue with the manager to let me return the parts that totaled about $125.

 

[Burgerkong]

I have a feeling under heavy use the compressor room without any external cooling is going to heat up to uncomfortable levels.

 

[Speedy!]

The compressor is rated to run at temps up to 104° F, but I never like to even get closet o max spec. So far it's not gotten anywhere near that in the closet, even with the compressor running and the exhaust fan OFF, and it's been one of the hottest summers I can remember around here. This kind of surprised me to be honest as I thought I'd at least need the fan running. So far it's just been what I'd call "normal" use though, nothing heavy like a blast cabinet. The shop does have AC and I keep it at 74° or so when I'm in there working. Without AC it would likely be a problem, but I gotta wonder what people do that put them in sheds outside, or just under some kind of awning and it's 100° out.

I ran this design by Quincy during construction and their techs said it would be no problem, that the closet was plenty big, and a 50CFM exhaust fan was more than enough to keep it in range.

I'm eventually going to install one of those weather station clock dealios in the shop and put the remote sensor in the compressor closet to keep an eye on temps though. I can always crack the door open if it gets too warm under hard use.

 

[Cynical]

Could you possibly show more pics of the line straightening jig? I may have to build one.

I have the 3/4" maxline in a box wondering how I'm going to make the install look 'reasonably' decent given the coil memory. Yours looks very nice.

 

[Speedy!]

The jig makes the job a piece of cake. I honestly wouldn't wanna do it without one. I believe Rapid Air posted plans for how to build it on their site. I would recommend you get a buddy to come over and help as well. Keeps the kinks out having two people wrestle with the roll of pipe.

http://www.unitedstatesbd.com/image...gories/5377/files/PDFs/tubing tool design.pdf

 

[Speedy!]

I got the opportunity to run the air system pretty hard this weekend. I was working on my lawnmower deck that rusted through. Cut out a section, welded in new, and then wire wheeled and 40 grit grinded the whole thing using an angle grinder and cut off wheel. Took me a couple hours and the compressor ran a lot. Temp was about 90° in the shop and 65% humidity, garage opened up as I was running in and out so no AC in the shop during this work. Compressor would kick on and off about every 7-10mins to refill. Regulator on the wall still at 105psi as noted. I did kick the exhaust fan on.

Compressor did fine, slight condensation in the filter bowl at the regulator only, no condensation at the tools. Closet temp felt within 5 - 10° of shop ambient temp even at the area around the compressor motor with the door closed the entire time during use.

I did get 16oz of moisture out of the compressor tank when I drained it at the end of the day, but it's run a few times and this was my first time draining it since it got some pretty decent use.

 

[Rockcam]

Speedy:

Great posts, also enjoyed the videos. Thanks for taking the time to put them together - videos in particular are really helpful.

How much effort does it take to pull the tube through the straightener? If you still have it I'm interested in buying from you.

 

[Speedy!]

Very little effort to pull it through, actually. You will need a friend or some jig to hold all the pipe though.

I've just about decided to keep the straightener for future projects. If I decide to sell it I'll shoot you a PM.