Shark bite help copper question

[Xkylescorex]

I have another thread asking about pex and plumbing my water main. Well, I finally decided to try and shark bite my copper main into pex. I cut the 3/4 copper line and sanded it down with 150 and then 220 grit sandpaper. I then marked the depth gauge and pushed it in. It didn't come close to the right depth and was very hard to spin. Seemed very tight in the sleeve. I then re cut the pipe to a make sure it was straight then re sanded it nice and smooth. Then bought a new shark bite and tried again. Still no dice. It slid in flawlessly and to the right depth on the pex side. Someone said this is probably k copper and I wouldn't be able to sweat it. What do I do now? I'm assuming this joint will fail. It's not leaking now but who knows how long it will last. This pipe feels pretty thick is it not a standard wall thickness?



The black mark is depth mark. I'm wondering if the pipe has a slight bend in it. I can't really cut any more into it.

 

[LXCam]

Take some channel locks (tongue and groove style) and put the jaws on the inside edge on the cast shoulder and tap it on with a hammer. Just grip it tight enough so it doesn't slip but not tight enough to do any damage to the fitting. You might need to try a couple different positions so it it doesn't work the first time, rotate the pliers 90 degrees. If that doesn't work you'll have to sweat a MA and go from there.

BTW because the cooper has a slight sweep to it means it also is slightly oblong too.

 

[The Cobbler]

did you debur the inside of the copper pipe?

it's not that you "can't" solder type k, its " you shouldn't solder underground copper" cause you're asking for a leak .

 

[The Cobbler]

I would not sweat a copper joint underground, . I would consider silver soldering a copper underground joint, but realistically, I would buy the proper flare fitting

 

[Xkylescorex]

No dice on the channel locks and the hammer. I knew I wouldn't get out of it that easy lol

 

[LXCam]

No dice on the channel locks and the hammer. I knew I wouldn't get out of it that easy lol

Bummer

Do you own a flaring tool for 3/4". If so clamp the holder on the pipe and see if it'll hold it round enough for you to get the fitting on. You might need to do it a few times like 1/8-1/4" spacing away from the fitting and work your way on.

 

[Northislander]

IMO. plus a couple code issues in my area.
you don't soft solder underground
i personally don't use shark bites underground (is ok by code)
I use municipal compression, silver braze or flare to old existing flare
Type K copper has the same 7/8 od as Type L that sharkbites are designed for but the little white liner inside the sharkbite won't slide into type K
Which leaves a Cambridge or Ford compression fitting, in my area you may have other choices in your neck ah the woods
ps. don't forget the s/s liner in the pex if you go compression fitting

 

[Xkylescorex]

Ive heard guys say to pull the plastic insert out when you use copper. Shark bites website said you didn't have to so I left it in. Should I try it without the plastic liner on the copper side. I Def don't want a leak so I need to avoid that.

 

[sixty4]

Shark bites are only good on straight hard drawn tubing, most water service pipe comes in a roll form (according to their website FAQ's) and your correct sometimes K or L. I would call down to your local supply house to see if they can get you a dresser or Mac fitting to do what you need (copper x pex).

 

[johninct]

I was wondering why is it against code to use lead solder underground? I know of an old Christmas Tree farm that had an underground lead pipe going to the tree area?

 

[sixty4]

I was wondering why is it against code to use lead solder underground? I know of an old Christmas Tree farm that had an underground lead pipe going to the tree area?

Today they will tell you the lead will leach into the ground. Back in the day many water mains were done in lead (even have an elderly customer that has one still). I think the real reason was because the joints would let go. Nothing like a good old flared joint.

 

[The Cobbler]

lead solder or low temp solder is not considered strong enough joint for underground

 

[Xkylescorex]

So I need to braze instead of solder? Is a propane torch hot enough to braze?

 

[Xkylescorex]

I just had a plumber look at the shark bite and say it's fine just cover it up. Wth am I crazy. It's only pushed in half way but it's tight as ****

 

[zak77]

I never use the plastic inserts on copper. I'd try that and see if it's any better. Also make sure the pipe is perfectly round. Maybe it's just the pic but it looks like the piping in coming in and out of the shark bite coupler at an angle. I found those couplers need have the pipe pushed in straight, any angle and they tend to leak.

 

[Kaizen]

This is the same result I had on a few sharkbite connectors when I first tried them. I just changed to soldering in pex connectors and using the clamp tool. so much less trouble. works 100 percent of the time.

 

[pstnbly]

You need to de-bur and chamfer slightly the outside of the pipe (it's getting hung up on the sharp edge. Or just sweat a female pipe thread adapter on and glue a male on the PVC. I have to laugh at the ones who say don't sweat K copper, our water department does it routinely Some sweated fittings are over 5 decades old and I've never seen one leak. Some here would rather see a Sharkbite underground than a sweated joint. Sharkbites are not meant to be place where they can't be inspected, but whatever. If it were me I would sweat a FIP to FS adapter, install a brass MIP to barb fitting and go PE.

 

[rlitman]

I just had a plumber look at the shark bite and say it's fine just cover it up. Wth am I crazy. It's only pushed in half way but it's tight as ****

It's not fine. My guess is that the stainless biting ring is tight on the pipe, but the sealing o-ring is pressed up against the end of the pipe, rather than slid onto it as it should be. This WILL fail.

You need to follow the directions posted here. Get that shark bite off the pipe, make sure the pipe is round (clamping it with a flaring tool would do that), and make sure the pipe is free of burrs. The last part, I like to do with sandpaper, and consider the prep for a shark bite to be pretty much the same as for sweating. Unlike with sweating, a little chamfer on the pipe (as opposed to just removing all burrs) helps the o-ring jump on.

Not mentioned above, is that while shark bite fittings come pre-lubricated, a little o-ring safe silicone grease on the end of the pipe may help. And since this has been installed and needs to be removed, you've already lost a little grease, so adding more is a good idea.

 

[Bob275]

where are you located?

 

[Xkylescorex]

After looking at a poece of cut off tubing I think my problem is that the tubing is out of round. This might be a dumb question but how do I straighten it with a tubing flare? I dont own a flare tool but can probably get one. I searched google and youtube dont see anything which is helpful. What kind of flare tool do I need? I think with some more prep, gettting the tube straighter and prepping the inside lip more i can get it to seat. Its not rolled copper

 

[Pig9r]

Its not rolled copper

Was it one continuous piece that you took out? Or were there joints? Because you were talking about replacing 100 feet of line correct?

 

[Xkylescorex]

There is only about 2 feet of copper. I cut it at the cleanest point the other part went into the ground and was all jacked and dented. About 7 feet in it connects to a polybutelyne pipe somewhere in the yard which is probably where the original failure was

 

[CJ7VFR]

As mentioned already, try removing the Shark Bite connector and pull out the plastic insert on the copper line side and re-install the Shark Bite connector, and see what happens.

Jim

 

[Norcal]

Lead solder such as the old 50/50 type is prohibited on potable water pipe, sweating copper in underground installations even with lead free solder is a no-no.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

The gent above that recommended using the flare tool, was suggesting only using the "clamp" part of the tool to help take the tubing back to round. You would not utilize the flare part of the tool in what he was suggesting.

Essentially clamp the end of the copper several times in different orientation to try and take the oval (from the radius bent in the pipe) out of the cross section.

 

[Xkylescorex]

Ok great. Thanks nwohiochevyguy do i just look for a plumbers flare tool at harbor freight? I know they make one for car brake lines thats affordable.

 

[johninct]

Lead solder such as the old 50/50 type is prohibited on potable water pipe, sweating copper in underground installations even with lead free solder is a no-no.

Say you were to ignore the code, would lead solder still work? I have a hard time believing that that Shark bite that didn't go on all of the way will last and that a joint that say is the same solder as pipes in the house will fail. Just my opinion.

 

[jhelrey]

If you push the pex in too far, you won't be able to put the copper in as far. Unless this fitting has an actual stop built in.

 

[rlitman]

If you push the pex in too far, you won't be able to put the copper in as far. Unless this fitting has an actual stop built in.

Every one of the short shark bite couplers I've seen like this have a positive stop in the center, but you do make a good point.

The only ones I've seen without stops were the long style designed as repair couplings.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Not all flare tools go upto the 3/4" you require.

This one on Amazon does, but look around you might find one locally that does.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CR4VC4E/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[csp]

Say you were to ignore the code, would lead solder still work?

For any pipe that's underground, a soft soldered joint is just a failure waiting to happen.

Someone asked if it should be brazed and if propane is hot enough.

Yes it should and no, propane is not hot enough. Acetylene is needed to get it hot enough for a brazed/silver soldered joint.

 

[posservice01]

I didn't see it noted here but ANY sharkbite fitting used underground must be wrapped with silicone sealing tape. I used them in two places covered it up and then re read the directions online and called Sharkbite.



Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

 

[brewchief]

Look up a pack joint fitting, that's what I see used on water services here above ground and from what I can see they are rated for buried use as well.

 

[Xkylescorex]

Well I had a guy come out and help me. Looked at the copper pipe and it was slightly curved. We cut it to a straighter section and popped on a new sharkbite. Problem solved

 

[rburke65]

I always learn something on this forum. Glad ya got it repaired!