Sharkbite Fittings - permanent?

[70Chevy]

I recently installed a new water heater. It's been a couple of years since I've done any plumbing work myself and the guy at Home Depot suggested that I use Sharkbite Steel braided hoses. Claims they are considered hard pipe and that it is to code. I also bought a Sharkbite ball valve. I tried it and I love these fittings!

Now I've done some looking on the 'net and see varying opinions:

1) Do you remove the plastic inner sleeve when joining copper?

2) Is it a permanent install or just a temporary fix?

What do the pro plumbers think about this Sharkbite stuff?

 

[mdlbldrmatt135]

..........

 

[Highbeam]

I consider them permanent and have buried them in walls. Do not remove the inner stiffener. They are pretty expensive to buy so if you are doing a whole houe then the 60$ (1/2" and 3/4") sharkbite brand ring compressor is cheaper.

Sharkbites and pex have nearly killed the plumber. Certainly the copper guys.

 

[Teken]

I just saw my first ever shark bite fitting during a warranty tank removal. To me it appears to be a pretty robust device.

Having said this I have always been a copper guy. With the advent of PEX and how well it is able to withstand temperature extremes compared to copper.

Along with the burst strength I am sold on PEX. For multiple fittings though I would opt for copper sweated line.

 

[70Chevy]

After more internet searching, I found the correct Sharkbite website ....I feel better about using them

 

[rlitman]

They rely on an EPDM rubber O ring. I don't see why WITHOUT MOVEMENT, that would last less than 25 years (what they're supposed to be rated for), but in a pipe subject to movement, I'd think twice about this.
Also, I would think that the rubber can take a set. That shouldn't be a problem if you're installing it "forever", but after being installed for a couple of years, I wouldn't feel comfortable re-using the connection, after removing it. When it's fresh though, it seems like you can disconnect and reconnect them about as often as an air line QD fitting.

 

[epdarks]

I recently ran shark bite and pex for a washer and dryer setup. I was ready to do all the copper work and I might have saved a few bucks doing it, but the shark bite/pex combo is so easy to work with I decided I would try it. Attached one end to some copper lines that I cut, and ran pex from there into 2 shutoffs, split into a sink and then to the washer. I was done in an afternoon and still not a single leak (everything is exposed). No complaints here.

 

[Leevon]

I just finished a $6 mil experimental building which has radiant heating and cooling panels with two geothermal/glycol loops within covering the entire ceiling. There are over 1,000 shark bite fittings on the end of pre-made stainless flex hoses to 3/4" copper tube. The engineering firm is one of the bigs in healthcare, which makes their specs and standards top notch. We had some reservation about these, but they had no issue.

With that said, we didn't have a single problem or leak...until the week the Owner took occupancy and coincidentally there was a high pressure problem in the loop. A fitting popped off, blasting an office with 120 degree glycol floor to ceiling and ruining everything within. After the cleanup, we began investigating and discovered that the shark bite fitting was still attached but the hose hadn't been crimped to the fitting from the factory. We were told there were several of those removed before installation but this one got through. So, the mechanical contractor gets to pay for the cleanup.

I don't have a problem using them again, BUT I wouldn't recommend for concealed spaces.

PEX is a different story, just got approval to use this for domestic water, 2" and down in a $17mil project. I have more confidence in it, recently got a pitch from a higher-up at Zurn, who make the bulk of the PEX systems. It seems to be impressive, and is working it's way into the commercial markets.

 

[rlitman]

I don't have a problem using them again, BUT I wouldn't recommend for concealed spaces.

I wouldn't recommend sharkbite OR any PEX fitting in a concealed space, but both can be very good systems.

 

[texmln]

I used a bunch of Sharkbites to plumb a bathroom in my barn three years ago. Many are buried in the wall and under the floor. No problems yet. I figured it was good test bed for Sharkbites. If they leak... well, it's a barn. Plumbers seem to hate them - because they make it easy for DIY's to get the job done.

I also see a lot of plumbers slamming Copper Bond but I use it all the time with great results. I was a little doutbful the first time I used it but since the line was accessible in a walk in attic above my garage I figured a small leak would be no big deal. I used it on the hot water line coming out of the water heater - 9 years ago! Haven't had a leak at all.

 

[pattenp]

I've used them but only where they can be seen, not enclosed in a wall. They have a 25 year life but I don't feel all warm and fuzzy sticking them where they can't be checked on at least once or so in their life time.

 

[truckman5000]

Im a plumber and have replaced them, mainly heating systems. Ive said this before on this forum. Bash me lol...ive used them on water lines if theres no other choise.
I know they have a warranty...ask 2 of my customers that have replaced hard wood floors. That werent covered under warranty.( shark bite used on basebord) Acouple of other times heat pipes in basements.
These could have been "older" shark bits also.
I love pex and copper. If you cant solder a pex adapter to a pipe and crimp pex on to it, DONT DO PLUMBING haha.

You can also use compression by cpvc adapters, and just glue cpvc pipes together. Much cheaper. Same thing.
Hope this helps people.

 

[charged355]

I used one of these shark bites in the basement when I installed a new water spigot for outside. So far it hasn't had any problems. Its been in there for 2 years. I actually wish I would have used them when I installed my water softener.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

A plumber does not have a use for this. A plumber is trained to make a permanent connection. If a "plumber" does a shark bite connection in your home, throw him out. We make a good living, you deserve quality work.

I go in behind a lot of these BS repairs, they wreck the freakin house. Try getting a hold of G damn Borat to file a claim on his contractors insurance.

You'll get freakin Peggy.

If you are handy andy in your house fine, but don't charge a person money for these.

 

[sixball]

I used two of them when installing a new floor in my bathroom. The pipes that had to be cut were copper and were real close to some insulation in the floor joist in the basement. I wasn't comfortable trying to solder them with the torch that close to the insulation, so I tried them. Very impressed. They are visable in the basement, and I'll admit, for afew weeks, I ran my hands all over them to see if they were leaking and I never felt a drop.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

The internal sealing mechanism within a shark bite fitting is an O ring. An o ring is a polymer seal. A polymer is essentially a liquid. Any polymer evaporates it's service life providing distillates until a point of lost flexibilty. At this point the o ring squares. Once the o ring squares it does not provide force to try to keep it's shape. At this point a leak is created.

In almost every failure of almost every faucet today the failure is due to the oring either losing it's elasticity or the oring becoming encrusted with solidus and the invasive solid not allowing the seal to flex. I encounter on average 15 to 20 failed O rings in a week.

It is not that difficult to solder. It is not that expensive to have it done. It is not that hard to cape out a thread, nor to split and chisel off a fitting. In case where a wall is in the way, you should open the wall and chase the threads back to make the mechanical proper connection.

If you choose other wise you will have a problem. It will cost a lot more later.

 

[IONH]

I recently ran shark bite and pex for a washer and dryer setup. I was ready to do all the copper work and I might have saved a few bucks doing it, but the shark bite/pex combo is so easy to work with I decided I would try it. Attached one end to some copper lines that I cut, and ran pex from there into 2 shutoffs, split into a sink and then to the washer. I was done in an afternoon and still not a single leak (everything is exposed). No complaints here.

Were you able to buy one of those dual shutoffs with sharkbite connections on them?

 

[danski0224]

The internal sealing mechanism within a shark bite fitting is an O ring. An o ring is a polymer seal. A polymer is essentially a liquid. Any polymer evaporates it's service life providing distillates until a point of lost flexibilty. At this point the o ring squares. Once the o ring squares it does not provide force to try to keep it's shape. At this point a leak is created.

Have an opinion on Pro Press stuff?

 

[HVAC Phil]

Have an opinion on Pro Press stuff?

Yeah i just noticed a flyer on this at the supply house the other day. Crimped copper fittings, wonder if they hold?

 

[brewchief]

Yeah i just noticed a flyer on this at the supply house the other day. Crimped copper fittings, wonder if they hold?

They've been out for a few years now, I guess time will tell.

One of the mags we get at work had a big ad for propress stuff for black pipe, not sure I'd trust a crimp connection on a gas line but it might be better then the china fittings we get around here.

To me the sharkbites, propress, etc are just options that make sense in certain situations, just like pvc pipe, cpvc pipe, pex, etc.

If one does not embrace some of this new technology then they will be left behind, go back far enough and there was probably someone questioning going from clay tile to cast iron or lead or something else.

 

[Macgyver_ga]

They've been out for a few years now, I guess time will tell.

One of the mags we get at work had a big ad for propress stuff for black pipe, not sure I'd trust a crimp connection on a gas line but it might be better then the china fittings we get around here.

To me the sharkbites, propress, etc are just options that make sense in certain situations, just like pvc pipe, cpvc pipe, pex, etc.

If one does not embrace some of this new technology then they will be left behind, go back far enough and there was probably someone questioning going from clay tile to cast iron or lead or something else.

Well put. A lot of people are resistant to new technologies because "it's not the way we've always done it"

 

[Berg]

Neighbor used a sharkbite on his outside faucet coming through the rim joist.

Now the whole hydrant turns when they turn the water on.

I have warned him to secure the faucet face but he hasn't and will learn the hard way

when the basement flood.

 

[Motofixxer]

Like any product out there...it has it's uses. Will it work for other things, sure. Should it be used in other situations...probably not. I'm one for more permanent connections. Anything other than a permanent connection should be considered temporary. Have I used them, sure...but only in easily accessible and minor situations. If you can make a permanent connection, you should. Would I hide one in a wall...never!!! Use the right tool or product for the application.

 

[G_P]

I would NEVER bury a sharkbite in the wall. Code here will not allow all metal compression fittings to be hidden in walls yet will allow the rubber sealed Sharkbites to be hidden...

I dread buying a house now because of the high chance that some hack has left these things in the walls that could blow out at any time.

Working at HD I have seen many thousands of these fittings sold and learned one important lesson. DEBURR THE PIPE!! or it will leak. And the sharkbite warranty will not cover the damages! They have so many loopholes in that warranty that you will probably never seen a penny out of them when the fitting blows and floods your house.

 

[rlitman]

learned one important lesson. DEBURR THE PIPE!! or it will leak. And the sharkbite warranty will not cover the damages!

Well duh. It's right there in the instructions. The few I've tried (again, only in exposed places, where no side forces would affect the connection) worked well, BUT I followed the instructions. They tell you to clean and prepare the joint as well as you would for soldering. Also, you need to mark the joint at a specific distance from the end (this differs depending on the size of the joint) to know if the fitting is fully inserted (they now sell a set of tools to make this measurement faster). If you skip this step, there is the risk that it can blow out.
Otherwise, if the o-ring fails, it will just leak, but will not blow out.

So, how many failures were caused by not reading the instructions?

 

[theoldwizard1]

What is the advantage of a Shark Bite over a compression fitting ?

How do the pros feel about compression fittings on copper pipe (not tubing) ?

 

[G_P]

Well duh. It's right there in the instructions. The few I've tried (again, only in exposed places, where no side forces would affect the connection) worked well, BUT I followed the instructions. They tell you to clean and prepare the joint as well as you would for soldering. Also, you need to mark the joint at a specific distance from the end (this differs depending on the size of the joint) to know if the fitting is fully inserted (they now sell a set of tools to make this measurement faster). If you skip this step, there is the risk that it can blow out.
Otherwise, if the o-ring fails, it will just leak, but will not blow out.

So, how many failures were caused by not reading the instructions?

A lot. People would always bring back the sharkbite fittings all pissed off and yelling that it did all kinds of damage spraying water everywhere.

Lookng inside the fitting you could see that the O ring was all torn up.

The people that shoppped at the HD I worked at did not read instructions. they were the type of people who knew nothing about any type of work other than desk jobs. They thought they were smarter than everyone else and thought that having to read the instructions made them weak.

They learned the hard way when the fitting they just buried in the wall without testing started spraying water.

Even had a few run gas lines using them They figured if roll copper tubing and flared connections was OK then copper water pipe and sharkbites would work.

They were not happy when they came back after the inspector failed them

 

[Steves32]

What do the pro plumbers think about this Sharkbite stuff?

You won't like my answer.

I'm tearing out a handyman repipe as we speak. All done in Sharkbite, misc compression fittings with a bit of Pex thrown in for good flavor.

Looks like ****. Leaks too.

I leave this box store repair stuff to the weekend homeowner or handyman.
I would NEVER use it.

 

[darkk]

A plumber does not have a use for this. A plumber is trained to make a permanent connection. If a "plumber" does a shark bite connection in your home, throw him out. We make a good living, you deserve quality work.
I go in behind a lot of these BS repairs, they wreck the freakin house. Try getting a hold of G damn Borat to file a claim on his contractors insurance.
You'll get freakin Peggy.
If you are handy andy in your house fine, but don't charge a person money for these.

I don't know about the Shark Bite fittings, but the Viega Stainless Steel crimp system on a pex tubing with the brass barbed fitting is as permanent as it's going to get.

 

[rlitman]

I don't know about the Shark Bite fittings, but the Viega Stainless Steel crimp system on a pex tubing with the brass barbed fitting is as permanent as it's going to get.

Actually, I've read many bad things about various fittings on PEX.
The stainless appears to have less holding power than copper rings, and some brass fittings have metallurgical issues that leads to corrosion, which leads to just enough water weeping through, which can corrode through the stainless.

These are also very sensitive to the precise placement of the steel clamp ring, but newer Oetiker clamps now have ears to correctly place them in the correct distance from the end of the tube.

For PEX, the most permanent connection I've seen is Wirsbo's expansion fitting.
Because PEX is permanently cross linked, expanding PEX, and then allowing it to contract back onto the fitting leaves more holding force than any crimp can.

 

[darkk]

Actually, I've read many bad things about various fittings on PEX.
The stainless appears to have less holding power than copper rings, and some brass fittings have metallurgical issues that leads to corrosion, which leads to just enough water weeping through, which can corrode through the stainless.

I really don't see stainless being a weaker material than copper. The Viega stainless crimp system also has two areas of crimp on each fitting. Corrosion issues are not common to using the correct pex for the job. All metals...stainless,steel,copper will corrode over time if exposed to constant water.

These are also very sensitive to the precise placement of the steel clamp ring, but newer Oetiker clamps now have ears to correctly place them in the correct distance from the end of the tube.

The Veiga stainless crimp ring has a small hole that you must see the pex tube in before crimping. This assures that the two are secure. Any system used will require the fitting to be placed properly including Wirsbo expension system. I have personally seen that system leak. So none of the systems is are perfect.

For PEX, the most permanent connection I've seen is Wirsbo's expansion fitting.
Because PEX is permanently cross linked, expanding PEX, and then allowing it to contract back onto the fitting leaves more holding force than any crimp can.

I don't see any technical information supporting that theory.
I did extensive reading before installing pex heating and plumbing in my new addition. My son in law owns/operates a well established heating and plumbing company and recommended the system over the others. Having installed most of the systems available, he has recommended the Viega crimp system over the others. I do have a small section of my heating done a few years ago with the Wirsbo system and admittedly it is holding up well also.

 

[rlitman]

Yes, the Viega Pex Press sleeves are indeed excellent too. I was thinking of the stainless rings that kind of go on like a hose clamp. Those are sketchy in my book. Probably no better than sharkbite, but that sort of connection is fine for lawn sprinkler pipe I guess.

Yes, I've seen an expanded fitting leak. It was poorly fitted, and had the pipe pulling on the fitting at an angle. No matter how good the system is, somebody will find a way to mess it up.

 

[GNDxero]

I've used sharkbite fittings for 1" pex to 1" copper. The connection was easy to make, and I had to remove it at least twice for other work, and each re-connection it didn't leak either. If you're never going to see this fitting again, I would be very very slow and cautious putting them together, I managed to crush the white sleeve inside because i was working with very unflexible 1" pex in 10 degree weather. In my case I didn't care a whole lot if it leaked so i tried to straighten the sleeve, and put it together, and it still didn't leak. Just my $.02

 

[Kbota]

Newbie to this forum. A year ago, I used shark bite fittings to run water to a sink in my shop. Very easy to assemble and no indication of a leak.

I have several mobile homes as rentals to provide retirement income, and used SB fittings to block off a hot and cold water line beneath a unit. Sealed like they were supposed to.

My only complaint with SB fittings is the high relative cost, but man are they fast and easy to use. Time will be the true judge.

K

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Give this stuff a few years, I'm sure the dialogue will change quite a bit. Every new relation ship needs some time to develop and fester.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

You won't like my answer.

I'm tearing out a handyman repipe as we speak. All done in Sharkbite, misc compression fittings with a bit of Pex thrown in for good flavor.

Looks like ****. Leaks too.

I leave this box store repair stuff to the weekend homeowner or handyman.
I would NEVER use it.

That is because you and I can be sued when we use this sub standard stuff.

The guys who install easy fix stuff have cell phone numbers that read RESTRICTED.

 

[jeffmoss26]

I know of a few handymen from my work at the hardware store that ONLY used compression fittings...apparently they never learned to solder...

 

[djm999]

For whatever reason I prefer Lowes to HD and that has led me to occasionally try Gator Bite fittings and I was very pleasantly surprised. Easy to use, and after several years, no leaks and very satisfied with the product.

 

[burleymike]

I like to use copper but due to the price I am going to use pex for my house. I perfer to use the polysulfone fittings since they have no chance of failing from dezincification. It seems most manufacturers of pex are offering poly fittings now. There was a lot of trouble with early Zurn brass fittings failing.

 

[PeterT]

I installed a laundry tub almost 3 years ago with a few sharkbit fittings. They were about $6 each and I used 4 90s and 2 Ts,, that was about $55.. The copper pipe another $20. I had the tub and faucet already. So for $75 the job was done. No LEAKS...
If I had called 'the old plumber' it would have cost me minimum $150, and most likely more. SO I am happy with the sharkbite fittings.