I am a small auto shop owner. Just me and myself all day long.. Because of this I frequently need creative solutions to moving dead cars around. I have a spare warn 8000lb winch and was thinking of mounting it to the floor under my work bench. With it mounted on the centerline of my lift it would be great for pulling dead vehicles straight in to the bay. Im worried about the winch pulling out of the concrete though. It is 6 inch high quality concrete. Any help is much appreciated.
shear factor of studs in concrete?
- Thread starter phreke
- Start date
ConCretin
Well-known member
I think you'd be fine pulling a vehicle into the bay using an anchor in your slab. To give you a sense, a 1/2" diameter expansion bolt in 3000 psi concrete has a shear strength in excess of 5,000 psi.
Alchymist
Well-known member
sberry
Banned
A couple 1/2 bolts and it would be fine. You are not dragging a truck up out of a rocky ravine, 2 men can push most cars quite easily.
Alchymist
Well-known member
You say 2, I say 4.
When you have the hammer drill out two more bolts isn't much of an effort. And the plate will spread the load out more ....tcsalvage
Well-known member
have a garage that does exactally what you are asking about. he mounted his under the bench with 4 anchor bolts (no plate) with a anchor for a ****** block ten feet outside the door for vehicles that are down the lot to far to drag straight in. he is also a one man shop without the guys that come over and don't know when to leave hanging around.
sberry
Banned
You can put 4 in if you like, it isnt going to hurt anything but something to keep in mind when building, not everything needs to be as strong as it can be, only as strong as it needs. One bolt to a plate is going to pull a dead car in the drive, depending on design maybe even in park.
My plan was to use a plate and four studs. I dig the idea of the ****** block anchor outside the door. Ill def be adding that to the project. Also by "dead vehicles" I meant ones that will roll and ones that will not. I specifically need the capability to pull in a vehicle with wheels that wont turn. and that is why I was worried about the anchor pulling out, but with the numbers you guys posted I dont think it will be an issue. Thanks for the help
Here is some data for you from Red Head. Should have a jpg and a word doc attached. Both are for red head G5 Epoxy but call out threaded rod diameters and strengths.
Here is the link with the information site as well.
http://www.itwredhead.com/product.php?G5-High-Strength-Epoxy-3
Here is the link with the information site as well.
http://www.itwredhead.com/product.php?G5-High-Strength-Epoxy-3
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I would ignore what you plan on pulling and figure out what that winch can do. Sorry, I don't know winches. But if a 8000lb winch can do 8000lb of damage, I would configure my anchors for that.
That way, if you ever hooked up to an imovable object, you would still be ok, the winch would fail or kick off before you did other damage.
Always engineer for the potential, not the "plan"
My 2 cents, hope it helps you.
That way, if you ever hooked up to an imovable object, you would still be ok, the winch would fail or kick off before you did other damage.
Always engineer for the potential, not the "plan"
My 2 cents, hope it helps you.
Pull pot or floor anchor(s) would both do what you want/need.
More than one way to do what you want to do. Pull pot, floor anchors, a piece of plate steel anchored to the concrete floor via some fasteners, whatever.
Did you think through on how you will power that proposed winch stuck on the floor? Sure it can be done, and it's not rocket science or anything, but it's not as simple simple as just plugging it in to a wall outlet either.
And yes, whatever anchor system you go with, make it stronger than you think you would need. As said, if you could pull with 8000 lbs of force (winch rating) then you have to (or really-really-really should) make sure the anchor 'system' is stronger than that.
Big, kind of heavy Warn winch, which has to be mounted to its own 'frame' or mount, which then has to be mounted to the floor mount. Again, not rocket science or anything, but not quite as simple as drill one hole in the concrete floor and pull everything off of a 1/2 inch anchor bolt.
More than one way to do what you want to do. Pull pot, floor anchors, a piece of plate steel anchored to the concrete floor via some fasteners, whatever.
Did you think through on how you will power that proposed winch stuck on the floor? Sure it can be done, and it's not rocket science or anything, but it's not as simple simple as just plugging it in to a wall outlet either.
And yes, whatever anchor system you go with, make it stronger than you think you would need. As said, if you could pull with 8000 lbs of force (winch rating) then you have to (or really-really-really should) make sure the anchor 'system' is stronger than that.
Big, kind of heavy Warn winch, which has to be mounted to its own 'frame' or mount, which then has to be mounted to the floor mount. Again, not rocket science or anything, but not quite as simple as drill one hole in the concrete floor and pull everything off of a 1/2 inch anchor bolt.
tdkkart
Well-known member
A friend did this. Problem was, he had 1 winch and 3 places that he wanted to use it. He mounting a receiver hitch style plate at the front of his shop, and one each at the front of his 2 trailers. Now he just pulls the pin and moves the winch. The only minor issue is moving the battery around also.
Steevo
Well-known member
I have a single 1/2" eye bolt screwed into an expansion anchor in the concrete floor of my shop, and have used a come-along hooked to it to drag a dead Dodge Ram truck up onto a pair of wheel ramps.
So, I would think that 4 bolts would allow you to dead drag about 12,000 pounds easily.
So, I would think that 4 bolts would allow you to dead drag about 12,000 pounds easily.
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POTS in the floor will work for alot of things they work really well for rolling dead cars, just drill the concrete and install the pots your good to go. i installed one pot in front of each door at the back of the garage, than since i too am always alone i installed a pot out side of each door in case the dead car was at an angle i didnt want my cable to tear up the corner of the garage wall. works great and i use it alot more than i thought, my winch is 100ft cable 10,000 lbs im thinking of buying a cheap hf elec winch around 3000lbs alot lighter and easy to carry.
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6768rogues
Banned
Call the local Hilti dealer. They have fasteners for almost every use and will give you advice.
wssix99
Well-known member
You'll be just fine doing that.
Assuming a 4 " long, 1/2" bolt, and 3000 psi concrete, each bolt could take on 6000 lb of sideways force before it does damage to the concrete. (So, the strength of the bolts you are using should control the decision.)
The other thing to keep in mind is how much force the winch will need to exert to move a car. If its on wheels - not much. If you are going to winch cars around like you'd do on the back of a wrecker, that's a different situation.
Uplift on the bolts will depend on the geometry of the winch. I'd put bolts in at the center-line of the drum, if you can. Assuming that the drum is mounted at a height equal to the distance from the drum centerline to the outer bolts, your bolts will need to resist an uplift equal to the force of pull. (Again, if you are pulling cars on wheels, this pulling force should just be a couple hundred pounds.)
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
A little overkill never hurts anything, but you need to factor in something going wrong. And with a cable and a winch, and I don't care how good of a winch or not, two extra bolts could be just the difference between an injury or not.
For instance, he may be putting in a Warn winch, 1/2" Grade 5 or Grade 8 bolts but does not really specify. Everything works correctly.
Someone else reads that someone put a winch under a bench. So here comes Harbor Freight, 1/4" rusty cable that has been stored out in the shed for 15 years. Socks it in with two Grade 2 bolts and starts pulling a car up a hill on the approach and something snaps.
To me, an extra 2 bolts and 5 minutes of time is a fairly good safety factor and not overkill
sberry
Banned
I am not saying not to build it adequate but the op wants to roll in a couple dead cars and somehow we get to pulling in dead 4x4's with the brakes on and tires flat while fully loaded. Then we get all the way to,,, what id someone used a rusty cable from HF,,, would the anchor be such a factor then? The nature of the hobby crowd is to overkill anyway, especially on this board, then worry some more,, then get on the phone and start calling every dealer of bolts asking. I bet the Hilti guy loves it.
Not every guy needs inch air mains 400A service or 400A welding machine when the heaviest thing he owns is a lawn mower and pickup truck.
A little design may be as important as the actual anchor especially where the general expected load could be handled by a couple plastic rawl plugs and number 12 sheet metal screws.
Not every guy needs inch air mains 400A service or 400A welding machine when the heaviest thing he owns is a lawn mower and pickup truck.
A little design may be as important as the actual anchor especially where the general expected load could be handled by a couple plastic rawl plugs and number 12 sheet metal screws.
Wardster
Well-known member
+1 - Anchor spacing is very important depending on the type of loading and Hilti should be able to help you.
-Wardster
robertlynk
Well-known member
Look at the mounting bolt holes in the winch. the instructions with specify the size and grade of bolts. This is the factor that determines the starting point. Then pick the same number and size of fasteners that equal that and you are done. On a side note most winches are rated at rolling weight not dead weight so be careful in that respect
Chris Adams
Well-known member
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- Oct 21, 2007
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I see you have a solid grasp of this board.
Ten times too much, no, that's not enough, maybe twenty, no thirty times too much... and a little fudge factor on top.
Wonder how many posters in this thread know that a 8000 lb hoist won't pull anything like 8000 lbs?
Or that I move heavy 50's and 60's cars around with 500 lb test nylon straps, by my self, all the time?
A car needs about 100-150 lbs to get it rolling. Then about 20 lbs to keep it rolling.
You know, a normal car only makes a hundred or so pounds of torque when you pull away from the light?
Chris Adams
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Truly, most the posters are visualizing an 8000 lb wench as LIFTING 8000 lbs.
The 8000 I have on the shelf suggests mounting with grade 5 3/8 bolts, 4.
mdbeck1
Well-known member
Truly, most the posters are visualizing an 8000 lb wench as LIFTING 8000 lbs.
The 8000 I have on the shelf suggests mounting with grade 5 3/8 bolts, 4.
I'd go ahead and use the 4 bolts (as indicated on the winch instructions) using the bolt holes suggested on the installation instructions. Then I would consider putting in a pull pot or an attach point on the mounting plate. I would also put a pull pot (or secondary attach point) near the entrance so you could pull cars OUT if you would like.
Another note: If you double the cable (using a good ****** block) you double the pulling power. The dead car will also move half as fast.