Shed - How do I skirt the sqft rules?

[AndyL]

Ok, long story short, already in a ******* match with the MD... Stop work order on one project, they wont let me have a permit (It's a ****** greenhouse repair - a couple 2x4s are rotted and some of the siding needs replacing, I shouldn't need a damn permit to replace a dozen 5' hunks of 2x4, and replace some fiberglass siding with replacement fiberglass siding for christs sake!).

GRRRR!

Worse than a HOA I tell you whut.. <drinks beer>

Anyway... This weekend convinced me I need to build an outbuilding. Between wife complaining of paint fumes in the house, and being unable to maneuver my garage - or smoke it in... I need a "shed" (read paint booth - can't call it a paint booth though - because that requires a permit).

So, I need some structural types to advise me...

Rules are 107sqft - 9' eave. Simple right?

Except I semi regularly pull 18' long pieces into the garage to paint...

So, I have a dream... 9'x11'6" shed ... BASE... I want it to slide open to 9 x ~20'

So, how do I cantilever basically a full shed off a full shed and have it slide reasonably easily - and not fail next good storm we get? Any thoughts on how to have a semi-reasonable floor float over the 'base'? without too much of a lip?

 

[fflintstone]

pour a 9' x 23" pad so then you could just slide out your "matryoshka" nesting walls and roof.

 

[srmofo]

Adjacent Windows. JustPull ThePieces Through

 

[ears]

Build two back to back. About 4" apart.

 

[Burgerkong]

Build two back to back. About 4" apart.

 

[AndyL]

Need cure time for paint so no windows, . Concrete pad requires permits and survey. But... i might be able to build a "deck" to it

2 built at 4" separation wouldn't fit their stupid rules about eaves proximity...

 

[atfulldraw]

spread the buildings and build a chute between the windows?

like a big square ac duct (plenum)

 

[Champ ionized]

Up here in Yellowhead county we've been getting around that 107 sf shed thing for years with semi trailer vans. 8.5' x 40', 45', 48' or 53'. They're on wheels (so no permit), they're cheap ($2500 or less), and a couple of loads of gravel at the end will give you a ramp if you need it.

 

[wssix99]

^ I was thinking the same thing. An old motor coach or school bus may also work.

 

[ratdoggy]

I know I'll get flamed for this but the laws are there for a reason and putting a semi trailer on your property because it's "legal" just isn't right if you live in a residential area. A 10x10 shed is plenty for "normal" storage

 

[xtremek]

Pour the slab and build adjacent deck. Purchase 6 (8?) 2" dia linear bearings and two 20' pieces of 1/4" (5/16" ?) wall 2" stainless steel tubing (both are available from McMaster-Carr, but can probably be purchased cheaper somewhere else). Weld stand-offs/feet along the tubing and then bolt the pieces of tubing to the pad and deck. Build one half directly onto the pad and the other half bolts onto linear bearings and slides over the permanent portion. No need to cantilever. Built something like this for the antenna range at Oakland University using corrugated fiberglass panels that were 3" thick and one person could move it back and forth very easily.

 

[Periodic]

I tend to agree, why not just do it once, do it right, build yourself a shop/shed the size you want/need to do your painting, pay for the permits and you'll be happier with the end result? See like you're just being stubborn to avoid the permit?

Shed within a shed/expandable shed seems very mickey mouse. Construction costs are probably very similar for the building itself.

Depending on your area I would suggest an old school portable. Those things make the best shops.

 

[dadsEH]

Move

 

[xtremek]

On second thought, I might have the sliding portion go on the inside for aesthetic and sealing reasons. If you preassemble the sliding portion in a garage, or at least large portions of it, you could haul it out and bolt it on in a matter of a few hours at most. And to the casual observer, they'd never realize what you really did. It took us about a half hour to put the assembled "hut" on the rails. Don't forget to put stops on the end of the rails. And if I were doing itI'd make one whole end a set of doors so that when it's contracted, the smaller portion is completely enclosed. A man door on the opposite side and you're able to use it for regular storage.

 

[Kevin54]

Some people don't read what's above their reply. The OP says he can't pour a slab.

For the OP.....can you build a shed with a deck attached to the end? If so, then it shouldn't take much to make a portion slide out. What does **** though is either the sliding extension would have to have it's own floor, limiting you to what you can store inside the shed when it's not slid out, or if it doesn't have a floor, the deck will end up with paint on it, but you will be limited on wall space due to the sliding array of things. There is a couple of ways you can do it, but the easiest would probably slide it on barn door rails. You will also have to have some sort of a rubber flap or seal that when it is slid back in, the rubber will overhang the gaps between the inner and outer shed. You can use almost any good size casters to allow it to slide. ANd remember, I am talking about this IF you can have a deck attached to the end. If you can't, you would have to have some sort of beams that the casters could slide on.

 

[cburnscrx]

I think your bigger problem is wanting something that isn't allowed. I would love to have a big shed in my community, but it would look out of place with the neighborhood. I really think you should think about moving...or as an alternative, buy a piece of land to build a workshop. If I didn't move to my current location, I would have done that to avoid all the HOA restrictions.

Ironically I moved to a place with lake access...suddenly I don't care so much about the shop/shed area.

 

[rsanter]

Buy or build an enclosed trailer.
How about an old motorhome?

Bob

 

[gsmornot]

You might be able to find some commercial property that has been sitting empty for a while that will rent/lease cheap that you could use for projects. Keeps you out of trouble at home and avoids building something that over time I think will be more of a hassle than a convenience.

 

[AndyL]

The quick and easy answer - is I'm since I'm in a "who's more stubborn" contest with the municipal district's permit office - that's been ongoing for 3 months already... Over a silly simple repair on my greenhouse; that by all accounts doesn't require a permit, but they wont rescind the stop work order... Pulling a permit to build a larger shed - is probably going to muddy those waters further.

No, wont be putting a sea-can/old bus/trailer on the property. It wont be visible to anyone but me anyway but I wouldn't want it in my backyard. The idea would be to keep it small except for the 2-3 days a month I might need it. But have it look respectable the rest of the time.

Going by the district's permit rules, I'd be completely within the rules if I did build a 'deck' , the square footage and height would be within the district's rules for no permit required.

 

[hmbemis]

What about building a shed to max size allowed, along with a deck as mentioned, then placing one of those metal skeletons w/ the canvas tops (temporary garages) over the deck? So the deck would be completely enclosed by the temp garage...

That will keep out most weather/etc and wind and be the least likely to trip you up with complying with the municipal government. If you're planning paint for large pieces in low temps then this is of course not really an option...

 

[Craptain]

Sounds ridiculous to me that you don't need a permit to build a shed but DO need one to fix a shed/greenhouse. Just the opposite to where I live.

 

[dandan111]

It sounds like maybe the green house is a eye sore?

 

[Perrorojo]

Collapsable lean-to? Retractable roof on top of the existing shed?

 

[AndyL]

It sounds like maybe the green house is a eye sore?

The greenhouse is pretty much only visible to me; except for a 8' section at the back fence where you can eyeball it from about a 100' away (unfortunately directly in line with a deck being built a certain inspector was out to inspect).

While needing repairs, it's not ghastly; the corrugated fiberglass sheeting has yellowed; have new white fiberglass for the roof, and clear polycarbonate (suntuf from HD) for the sides. No point peeling those off and re-attaching to old ugly 2x4 framing - so was replacing those as I went... Still not understanding why he figured I needed a permit, nobody at the permit office will address it - and he wont either. So can't pull a permit - because it's a repair that doesn't require a permit; can't get the stop work order for no permit rescinded - because it's a repair that doesn't require a permit... Catch 22.

We love government...

 

[grumpygator]

If 20' is the problem why not 5' wide by 20' long?
*********Just Saying*********Gator**********

 

[wssix99]

I know I'll get flamed for this but the laws are there for a reason and putting a semi trailer on your property because it's "legal" just isn't right if you live in a residential area. A 10x10 shed is plenty for "normal" storage

This might be a golden opportunity to make a statement to the neighbors!

 

[hmbemis]

So can't pull a permit - because it's a repair that doesn't require a permit; can't get the stop work order for no permit rescinded - because it's a repair that doesn't require a permit... Catch 22.

That's pretty odd... So you have a stop work because, why? Because no permit? So if you apply for the permit to perform repairs are they actually denying it? What reason is given? It can't be "no permit required" because then the stop work order would be invalid... there has to be more to this.

In my area we have elected people called "selectmen" and they hold meetings every couple of weeks to handle town business. If I had an issue with the building office being unnecessarily difficult I'd approach the selectmen about a week or so prior to a scheduled meeting via a concise letter including a clear set of pictures and simplified plans ... with a one line explanation of the problem: "I have a stop work order issued until a permit is granted" and simple request for resolution: "I need the building office to issue a permit"

 

[eastbaysubaru]

When my father was dealing with square footage limitations for out-buildings, he built an exterior closet on one side of the new building. After the building permit was signed off, he had his contractor close the closet to the outside and turn it into an inside closet (the interior closet square footage would have counted towards the building square footage). Perhaps you could do something similar for the new shed?

-Brian

 

[jerryd68]

This might be a golden opportunity to make a statement to the neighbors!

I think most of the stupid building code **** is there for one reason! More taxes!!! It's not the county or the town that is paying the mortgage on the property!! Who in the hell are they to tell me what I can do on my property!

 

[AndyL]

That's pretty odd... So you have a stop work because, why? Because no permit? So if you apply for the permit to perform repairs are they actually denying it? What reason is given? It can't be "no permit required" because then the stop work order would be invalid... there has to be more to this.

In my area we have elected people called "selectmen" and they hold meetings every couple of weeks to handle town business. If I had an issue with the building office being unnecessarily difficult I'd approach the selectmen about a week or so prior to a scheduled meeting via a concise letter including a clear set of pictures and simplified plans ... with a one line explanation of the problem: "I have a stop work order issued until a permit is granted" and simple request for resolution: "I need the building office to issue a permit"

I've spent more time in the permit office than I care to think about... Attended 2 council meetings - didn't get on the schedule because there's a development approval that's getting NIMBY filibustered...

According to my gmail account, i'm at 56 emails; and 32 phone calls trying to get it resolved... One would think it should be resolved eventually?

The manager for development approvals wont overrule the inspector's ruling (CYA); but the permit clerk wont issue a permit. The inspector is either too busy or for whatever reason refusing to address the issue... So sitting in limbo waiting for either a permit, or a signoff to cancel the stop work order.

Its local government + some lovely software at it's finest...

 

[hmbemis]

Its local government + some lovely software at it's finest...

Yuck.

Sounds like you're pulling all the levers but the machine isn't cooperating, and of course there isn't much else you can do I suppose.

If I were at this level I'd start a registered letter writing campaign to the various people and departments.

My town has never ONCE responded to an email I've written with questions or requests, it's like they drop into a black hole... I used registered letters once and I got action--Had a dead tree on the strip between road and sidewalk that was becoming a hazard... wrote emails and made calls over 6 months... no action... wrote a few registered letters to head of DPW, Forestry, Local POCO, and Selectmen... got a call 2 days later from DPW that they are going to follow up, less than a week later trucks came and took it down.

Good luck!

 

[Doxhog]

Build the maximum size shed and then build two "detached" decks. One off the front and one off the back to make the 18' total length. Put a "roof" over each deck for shade to work in and then you can "enclose" the sides and the end with "temporary" material (tarps, etc...).

 

[Mechtech]

I've spent more time in the permit office than I care to think about... Attended 2 council meetings - didn't get on the schedule because there's a development approval that's getting NIMBY filibustered...

According to my gmail account, i'm at 56 emails; and 32 phone calls trying to get it resolved... One would think it should be resolved eventually?

The manager for development approvals wont overrule the inspector's ruling (CYA); but the permit clerk wont issue a permit. The inspector is either too busy or for whatever reason refusing to address the issue... So sitting in limbo waiting for either a permit, or a signoff to cancel the stop work order.

Its local government + some lovely software at it's finest...

At this point I would be calling the local news channels and see if they want to do a piece on the 'inept local government run wild' if you can get the main development being filibustered tied to your "no permit needed/stop work for no permit" as examples it may shake something loose.

 

[AndyL]

Yuck.

Sounds like you're pulling all the levers but the machine isn't cooperating, and of course there isn't much else you can do I suppose.

If I were at this level I'd start a registered letter writing campaign to the various people and departments.

My town has never ONCE responded to an email I've written with questions or requests, it's like they drop into a black hole... I used registered letters once and I got action--Had a dead tree on the strip between road and sidewalk that was becoming a hazard... wrote emails and made calls over 6 months... no action... wrote a few registered letters to head of DPW, Forestry, Local POCO, and Selectmen... got a call 2 days later from DPW that they are going to follow up, less than a week later trucks came and took it down.

Good luck!

Ah, I'm going to resolve this in the next few weeks... I'm not going to write letters, I'll pay the 100$ to have a lawyer do it - Might as well get their undivided attention; lawyers get more attention than tax payers...

At this point I would be calling the local news channels and see if they want to do a piece on the 'inept local government run wild' if you can get the main development being filibustered tied to your "no permit needed/stop work for no permit" as examples it may shake something loose.

Nah, I don't wanna piss them off too much - I'm going to need permits for a few other projects coming up... getting their ******* in a mega-twist wont help with those projects...

 

[kbs2244]

Think about an inflatable building.
Put it up when you need it.
Pack it up for storage.
It is a “temporary tent” shouldn’t need a permit.

http://www.tectoniks.com/clear-spans.php

 

[Skyline]

I'd say hire a local contractor to get your greenhouse fixed. Find one that works regularly in the town. They will take care of the building permit and inspections as necessary. It's a minor job, so it shouldn't be too costly. Even if it is something you can handle yourself from a carpentry standpoint, clearly you can't handle the town paperwork. Pay someone to do it.

As far as the shed, if you really want a single garage size shed, pay the same contractor to pull all the necessary permits. Yes, you will eventually get assessed, but you'll have a permanent building on a proper slab. Whether you decide to use a part/tent part/building solution or not, a slab will be really nice if you want to work in there. So you need a permit no matter what.

 

[f150skidoo]

I know this is not the ideal way to go about this situation but i would just build a 10'x20' shed with no permits, and basically tell the town were to go. pre build all the walls and roof in your current garage, get a couple buddies on a Saturday and you have completed building in under a day. Pour a concrete pad and if the town finds out you built a concrete pad just say its a patio and throw a couple lawn chairs on there temporarily. I don't know about your township but the one i live in won't really do anything after a illegally built building was built for instance i know a guy that tried to build a addition on his pole barn. But the town would'nt allow him to build his addition becasue the building was being used for a commercial wood shop and not agricultural, but it was okay 2 years previous to build the building for non agricultural business. the guy was so mad at the town he told the people at the town building department to go f off and he was going to build the building anyways. that was 8 years ago and nothing has since happened from the town.