Sheet Metal Equipment - How to get started

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

OK, I have used a box and pan brake, slip rolls, notcher, Diarco punch, Diarco bender, Hossenfeld bender, etc. during my school days and as a lab tech in college. I want to amass a shop of similar equipment but don't have a bunch of space. I troll Craigslist, eBay, auctions, etc. and have not been able to land an inexpensive set of equipment to move this hobby forward. Advice?

 

[Chaz]

Start with a shear and a box brake. Then add the other stuff as you can. I bought from Grizzly and made sure everything would handle 48 inch widths. It aint PEXTO (Peck, Stowe, Wilcox), but it has served me well for a lot of years. I still don't have slip rolls, but have a Tubeshark tubing bender, English wheel, planishing hammer, shrinker, stretcher and bead roller. I added each of those as the money allowed.
With the exception of the Tubeshark, all of them paid for themselves over time.

 

[ilovevocs]

Sheet metal work is an expensive hobby tooled the way you describe. Guys tooled in that manner have a for profit business.


Sheet metal itself is a diverse trade with many shops specializing in certain aspects of fabrication.

 

[racingtadpole]

Sheet metal work is an expensive hobby tooled the way you describe. Guys tooled in that manner have a for profit business.

Or more money than sense... Although you are correct, I do take on paid work when it suits, which isnt very often with my current day gig.
I'm so far into it about 8K worth of our south pacific peso's and I don't have the notcher as yet..

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Yeah, I did my first box and pan brake work in 7th grade Industrial Arts aka Shop.. making galley trays for our letter press / printing operation that we inherited from a school that went K-8 to K-6. Pexto for sure. That's on the agenda, but not sure I want a hobby shop at 4' widths. Definitely expensive used stuff. Have looked at the Grizzly stuff lately..

 

[matt_i]

I don't know if there's an inexpensive set of sheetmetal tools out there that one would be happy with. I'd keep your search up. Add Tennsmith to your list of names.

Imo you also need a tig welder to finish out boxes and pans. The punch can be replaced by a set of Blaircutters (specialized precision holesaw with 1/8" max depth of cut designed for sheetmetal) which leave a minimal burr and are still reasonably fast.

I'd also consider a Beverly thoatless shear. It can notch corners almost as well as a purpose-built notcher. Not as fast and needing more care but you can get there.

I don't own one yet but I think a metal cutting circular saw might be able to double as a shear, armed with a straightedge guide that's clamped down. For crude work one can use a thin cutoff disk on an angle grinder.

I have a few of these tools. They are mounted on pallet-type bases that can be rolled around by pallet jack. And a pallet-rack that can be loaded by forklift so they can "stack" and not have to consume as much floor space.

One of the bigger challenges and expenses is getting the actual sheetmetal. For every sheet they send (catalog, full sheet) they build a hardwood skid so the metal doesn't get trashed in transport. That's not free but it can handle several sheets. So to maximize your purchasing efficiency its good to order some more inventory. Which has its own storage complications....

 

[kaymccampbell]

I have one of the HF 30" shear, brake, roll things, a HF bender, and a HF bead roller. All of which suffice to to make custom metal roof parts, floor pans, shepherd's crooks, you name it. They are not the best tools by any measure, but with a little care and thought they can provide the necessary for a reasonable cost.

 

[rmack898]

I troll Craigslist, eBay, auctions, etc. and have not been able to land an inexpensive set of equipment to move this hobby forward. Advice?

My advice is patience.

I have a pexto stomp sheer, a Tennsmith B/P brake, Niagra slip roll, Pexto notcher. I bought all of them off CL or ebay and have just about $1000 invested in everything. It took me about 4 years to acquire all the machines but deals can be found if you are willing to wait.

The HF knock off of the Beverly B1 is really not that bad of a tool and when the blades need to be replaced, you can put Beverly blades on the HF shear.

 

[4 FN 27]

Some good advice above...just keep your nose to the grind stone looking for the equipment you need and don't listen to the naysayers. Invest in the right stuff and you will have it for a life time.

I have been hammering away on Sheet Metal for 38 years now...on a bit of a different level. My brothers and I worked in a Precision Sheet Metal shop owned by our Dad for 16 years starting at the bottom. He sold the company to an investment group. Long story short they treated our valued employees like **** and the customers too....thus I asked the same question in 1996...How do we get started?

In Feb 1997 we barrowed the money from a bank, bought the equipment, hired the people and work relentlessly. Now we are 97 people, 7 Turrets, 6 Lasers and 26 going on 28 Press Brakes...

I am now in the process of building a miniature version of our Fab Shop at home. Same thing...looking for deals on used or new equipment. I just won't have the super high-tech stuff we have in the plant. But enough stuff I can make the things I need or want at home.

Watch the auctions. Find the used machinery dealers in the area and let them know what you are looking for. Often times they come across equipment they do not want to take in trade and they can send you direct to buy it if it fits your needs.

Good luck!!!

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Good advice all.. Thanks for the ideas and keep them coming....

 

[dr_clyde]

I work with sheet metal often. I am fortunate enough to have access to a full sheet metal shop with all the tools.

I am growing my own sheet metal tool collection. It's slow going if you want a good deal on good names. I got most of my tools through people I know who decided to sell or upgrade. My tools never really got as far as Craigslist or a machine dealer. So far I've managed a Beverly B3 shear, a Pexto 10ft sheet shear and a Barth 48" box and pan brake. I'm still searching for some powered pinch rolls, and an nice Boschert power notcher.

 

[dr_clyde]

My advice would be to make your intentions known to people in the industry. We hear things and someone may give you an unexpected call one day with an offer you can't refuse.

 

[kkroger]

I have two plasma tables, a 16 Ga 52" Slip Roll, a 16 ga 50" Shear, and a 48" 12 Ga B&P brake on the shop floor, Plus a Tubing Bender, and a Universal Bender and a Tubing/Bar Roller, a 250A MIG Welder and a 200A TIG. Powder Coating setup and two ovens (smaller and a Larger one) Most useful tool in the shop though is the fork truck! LOL! After the first of the year, I am planning a Mittler Brothers Industrial 36" Bead Roller (Probably a Jamie Jordan model for the dies included) and perhaps some other upgrades. and an Ellis 4000 Bandsaw, for the record the Shear is a Grizzly, Almost useless aside from Tinfoil thickness, the Brake is a Grizzly it works quite well but it is definitely overkill for what I usually DO, if it was not then it too would be worthless, the slip roll has been a surprise, I have rolled MUCH thicker material than it is rated for, and it DID it, it just took longer. GENERALLY the thickest material I have to work is 16Ga Mild or 18 Ga SS, I do work aluminum as well, so I can go up to 1/8 with these tools fairly well. The Tube Bender is a JD2 Model 3, it does what I need it to, the shop next door has a model 32 and the shop at the other end of the building as a Model 54, the Tube Roller is a SWAG HULK, with a selection of dies I add to them as needed... if the job will pay for the dies I'll take it. I do work with 3/16 Steel and Aluminum, and occasionally 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2, but I never have to bend it. If I do, there is a shop down the road with a 12' Press Brake, and a 14' shear (capable of up to 11ga I believe) and a sheetmetal shop a couple blocks over that does some interesting work. I do a lot of work for two of my metal suppliers. odd jobs. I make tool racks for a couple other entities. All of the tools are paid for cash money. At home I have another TIG, MIG, CNC Mill, and a 12x36 Metal lathe, Couple Bandsaws

 

[Lelandwelds]

I have always wanted a bead roller. When I was a kid, I had to wait in the truck while dad talked for hours. He always parked where I could see the guy making an endless series of stuff on one. He never measured or looked at plans. I thought it was really cool.

Does anyone work with small width rolls and a decoiler instead of sheets? I suspect the minimum quantities are probably pretty high.

 

[ez-duzit]

I buy most of my machines on c/l and eBay. It takes perseverance and drive; keep after it. I would avoid HF and watch for deals on good older machines. Get your cash funds in order and ready so you can make a deal as soon as it presents itself. Do all your research beforehand so that you know a deal when you find one. Buy well equipped machines; avoid bare and incomplete ones. Shop private party ads and avoid machine dealers to stretch your budget.

 

[danski0224]

OK, I have used a box and pan brake, slip rolls, notcher, Diarco punch, Diarco bender, Hossenfeld bender, etc. during my school days and as a lab tech in college. I want to amass a shop of similar equipment but don't have a bunch of space. I troll Craigslist, eBay, auctions, etc. and have not been able to land an inexpensive set of equipment to move this hobby forward. Advice?

It will take a long time. An "inexpensive" set of equipment is almost guaranteed not to happen without extreme luck.

Set up searches on eBay and wait. Be prepared to drive. "Stuff Alert" will notify you before eBay will.

You have to watch Craigslist all of the time, if you are in an area where stuff like that comes up for sale.

The used machinery sellers will muscle you out of the auctions, and then sell it at near retail.

The economy is good at this time, which will make it even harder to find equipment without a premium price.

 

[EdT]

A general suggestion would be to figure out exactly what project you want/need to do and tool up to do that project. I have a number of things that I thought I would use and I don't. I have been trying to focus my tool purchases on things for which I have a known need, not just stuff than may come in handy someday. That said, I shop on CL and estate sales all the time and there are some deals out there, but like anything else, you have to know what the market is for an item. Some of the HF stuff is OK, but I am trying to accumulate top of the line stuff when it comes up and it does, but as suggested above, you have to be diligent and patient and ready to jump when something comes up.

 

[BD1]

I bought a HF 36'' break for $75.00 in new condition. I don't do much but for the money it is super handy. I always watch for a REAL break and shear but hard to find and not cheap. A 36'' shear usually averages around $1,000.00 by me.
I needed to cut some sheet steel light 22 gauge so I bought the Milwaukee Metal cutting saw with a fine tooth blade. It's not a shear but did a great job on it the light stuff. Also cut 10 gauge and 1/4'' plate too. I made a jig / saw guide for cutting the sheetmetal the 4' width. Money well spent for the saw.

 

[NitroShark]

One of the first metal fab tools I bought (in 1983) was a Hossfeld #2 bender. It's the standard others have tried to copy for years. But I'm heavy into tube fab, but It does nice for other things like flat bar and round.

http://www.hossfeldbender.com/

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

All: great comments.. Thank You!

NitroShark, the Hossfeld is on the radar, we had one in college but not used much. Diarco bender was easier and I used it quite a bit. Tube fab work is on the "projects" list. BD1 - good suggestion on the Milwaukee.. will check that out. EdT, mostly tinkering around stuff in the shop, I'd often think.. if I only had a box and pan.. I could bend up something really quick and make that tool holder, etc.

My bud at ISU has full access to a fab shop / lab, so I'm really jealous of that. Just need to figure out how to "transport" there quickly.. lol.

All have a terrific day..

 

[EdT]

Dennis,
There are deals out there if you know the market, what you are looking for, and how much you're willing to pay. I seem to find a good deal on something I need a couple of times a year; not every week. Just for encouragement, here are some of the better ones:
Powermatic 1150 drill press $75
DiAcro five station sheetmetal work table from a school 12" shear, finger break and slip roll plus a corner notcher and #0 bender $400
DiAcro 24" B&P break $250
Large tote full of aircraft SM tools, riveting equipment etc $75
52" JET stomp shear unused $700
HECK Trace A Punch $100 Needed new punch and die set so really $200
Roper-Whitney 218 punch with stand $175
#2 beverly shear $200. I use it a lot just because it's pleasant to use
KAMA 996 swiveling cut off saw $229 (and a lot of clean up) It's a great saw.
!0" Taiwan metal lathe $200

Point being, there is stuff out there if you look diligently. You are in a part of the country where the kind of stuff you are looking for should be pretty plentiful. Good luck on your quest.

 

[brownbagg]

sheet metal workers, is it brake or break?

 

[ilovevocs]

Does anyone work with small width rolls and a decoiler instead of sheets? I suspect the minimum quantities are probably pretty high.

A small width roll has to be slit and tension leveled from a master coil. No cost savings per sq.ft. Over 4x10 etc. They make you buy the drops as well. It isn’t cheaper or more convenient - unless your roll forming long lengths.

 

[dr_clyde]

sheet metal workers, is it brake or break?

Brake. It is a press brake or a box brake. The metal is formed or bent. Some guys say broke metal, but I'm not sure that's totally correct.

 

[lis2323]

Brake. It is a press brake or a box brake. The metal is formed or bent. Some guys say broke metal, but I'm not sure that's totally correct.

I know of a couple sheet metal places that went broke.....

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Dennis,
There are deals out there if you know the market, what you are looking for, and how much you're willing to pay. I seem to find a good deal on something I need a couple of times a year; not every week. Just for encouragement, here are some of the better ones:
Powermatic 1150 drill press $75
DiAcro five station sheetmetal work table from a school 12" shear, finger break and slip roll plus a corner notcher and #0 bender $400
DiAcro 24" B&P break $250
Large tote full of aircraft SM tools, riveting equipment etc $75
52" JET stomp shear unused $700
HECK Trace A Punch $100 Needed new punch and die set so really $200
Roper-Whitney 218 punch with stand $175
#2 beverly shear $200. I use it a lot just because it's pleasant to use
KAMA 996 swiveling cut off saw $229 (and a lot of clean up) It's a great saw.
!0" Taiwan metal lathe $200

Point being, there is stuff out there if you look diligently. You are in a part of the country where the kind of stuff you are looking for should be pretty plentiful. Good luck on your quest.

That Diarco 5 station sounds neat...

 

[Fender1325]

Harbor freight. Modify as needed. I have the shrinker/stretcher, English wheel, electric shears, hammer and dolly set, mallet. All very functional. Woodward fab bead roller.

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Heading over to see C/O Say to start on my first piece of equipment....

 

[BD1]

sheet metal workers, is it brake or break?

Yes! I monitor Craigslist and type it in both ways. Many list it both ways.
Technically brake gets my vote.

 

[tarbellb]

They are all mostly tapped out at this point, but school auctions getting rid of industrial programs are a excellent place to find some deals.

Find out which (sometimes several) auction companies sell for the local schools, or go directly to the school w/ the equipment and find out or drop a "want to buy" note.

I picked up a 10" Unisaw, 6" Rockewell jointer, and 20" Delta planer for less then scrap price at a school auction

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Yes! I monitor Craigslist and type it in both ways. Many list it both ways.
Technically brake gets my vote.

Diacro calls theirs a brake...

View media item 79590
Met C/S Say and his son. Very nice and pleasant folks..always happy to meet GJ'rs in person..

Shear is now in my garage .. Small, incremental steps... GJ is moving me in the right direction...

View media item 79591

 

[EdT]

NICE!! Looks like an old school unit. Schools went through a period of painting all the moving parts of shop equipment yellow (OSHA or something). Looks like they may have gotten carried away on that one. Since it may have come from a school, it's likely that there are some nicks in the blades from some eager student trying to cut a drill bit in half or something like that. IIR, the blades are flippable so there is probably a pair of good edges left. If not, they can be reground rather than replaced. Great start. Keep looking. They are out there.

 

[c/o say]

Now I want to see a restoration thread lol. I hope you put it to good use.

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Now I want to see a restoration thread lol. I hope you put it to good use.

It certainly will be.. and yes... I'll have to do that. Already have talked to a really helpful person (Tami) at Diacro who says the replacement link isn't that expensive.. so I'm considering that. Right now with an unheated garage.. it will have to wait a bit..

 

[Keyblazer]

As a semi retired guy with little spare cash it has taken me a few years to build up my tool collection, so stick with it.

Here are my mostly CL trolling finds, and all of them were cheap.
All of them were stripped, cleaned, painted and fettled.

1/ HF 4x6 V/H Bandsaw. Worked ok, and I paid $60.... has served me well.
2/ HF 30" Sliproll/Brake/Shear. Rusty, but intact and works well enough. $120.
3/ 30" Deeblast Sandblasting Cabinet. Rusty, broken glass, and packed to the grate with wet sand... $80.
4/ Hossfeld #2 Bender, on stand, with a fair amount of tooling. Rusty, ugly, but $200.
5/ Pexto 21" Bar Folder... I think it had been in the ocean for a number of years... $75...
6/ HF English wheel... rusty, ugly, and unloved... $60... Frame reinforced and plenty beefy now...
7/ HF Plannishing hammer. Bought new, with Coupon for $80... amazing tool for the $ once you fix it a bit.

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Started to disassemble the shear... pictures tomorrow..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Too tired at the end of the day yesterday to post pictures... Weather decent enough to spend some time on this yesterday. Second picture shows the nut that holds the overarm assembly to the base casting. We tried numerous approaches to disassemble the unit and the right side shaft would not go beyond the threaded section as we tried to push, hammer, press, or otherwise nudge it out. There are hammer marks on the top of the "T" castings of the overarm from the prior repair, making me believe something is bent (probably the shaft that is cam'd to allow the shear handle to operate the shear action itself. Still working on theories how to get this out including using a portapower or some other mechanical means.. Once apart, I'll know what needs to be straightened (shaft, T castings, or ??) to let it assemble without hammers....

View media item 81186
View media item 81187

 

[cvairwerks]

Dennis: Can you lift the “tees” off of the vertical columns? Possible the shaft is made like a sholder bolt and you have to slide the “tees” off each end instead, as they keep the shaft captive that way.

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Dennis: Can you lift the “tees” off of the vertical columns? Possible the shaft is made like a sholder bolt and you have to slide the “tees” off each end instead, as they keep the shaft captive that way.

In the assembly drawing Di-Acro has show them as one piece.. They are solidly on the shaft.. either machined as one piece or somehow connected (shrink fitted?) and aren't coming apart...

I'll double check the drawing....

Thx for thinking about it and helping.......

 

[cvairwerks]

Dennis, looking at the manual online, the top "tees" come off by pulling them and the upper shaft and the vertical shafts out of the base assembly. The upper "tees" should then come off the main shaft, hopefully with the bearings staying on the shaft. Each of the vertical shafts should have a nut on the bottom of the base.