sheetmetal fab/welding question?

[the intimidator]

Hey fellas I need to fix the cab corners and a few other rusty spots on my truck and would like to fab weld and finish this project by myself. This will be my first time doing any majour body work involving making patch panels and welding them onto my truck. so bear with me while I ask a few questions

Ok first question what gauge sheetmetal should I be looking for? I really have no clue what thickness the stock metal is or what would be a good gauge to work with and weld?

I have a lil lincoln weldpak 100 right now I am running .035 fluxcored wire for my trailer project. I am 98% sure that is way the he!! to thick to weld sheet metal with lol should I be looking at .025 or what? I know gas shelided welding is far superior to flux cored but I dont have the mony to convert to gas+buy the bottle ect. can I weld with flux cored wire and not make a huge mess? or am I definatly going to need to convert?

I would also like to get a few pointers on working with the sheet metal. What tools I am going to need to obtain and any tips that will ensure I do a good job that I can be proud of when I am done thanks guy's

 

[PAToyota]

Flux core is going to be a mess with sheetmetal work if only because you have to chip the slag back off, which is going to distort the metal... As for metal thickness, there are gauges to determine that or just use a caliper and chart with gage thickness. As for other tools, it all depends on what you are doing. Anything from some hammers and dollies up to an English Wheel and more!

Sheet metal gauge:

 

[Down Under Bloke]

I did a night hobby courses in panel beating and spray painting at my local TAFE (er; post secondary trade school) years ago. It was money well spent and I enjoyed it, I recommend you search out this option in your area. You may even be able to take in a small part to work on.

The place I did my course was a dedicated auto collage; one night the topic of trades’ professionals V back yarders / hobbyist came up, the response for our teacher was refreshing. “You are going to try it anyway so you might as well do it properly & I’d rather teach students who are interested.” I’m sure the extra money was a consideration too, but it was good to know our teacher was interested in us.

Another option is get some good how to books and some bent panels and just go for it, start with working out the dints and when it goes wrong , start the cutting and welding practice.

 

[TNToy]

Eew. Welding sheetmetal without gas seriously brings the ****.

The main problem is that you really want .025 wire for sheetmetal. And you can't find .025 in a flux-core because it's too small of a diameter to easily pack a hollow center full of flux.

You'll find .030 at the thinnest most places, and that's still really too thick. The difference between .030 flux and .025 MIG is amazing. AMAZING. I took a foot out of the bed on my truck and welded the tailgate section back on using flux core. It's the only time I've ever used flux for sheetmetal.

Stop eating. Buy a gas cylinder and a regulator once you've saved up enough.

I don't really understand how ANYONE welds with Flux core after using MIG for even five minutes. I could never go back... I mean, I've done it when I had something to finish at 10:00PM and ran out of gas... but it just reassures me that buying that cylinder and whatnot was worth EVERY cent.

With regards to thickness, just cut a small section out of a panel and bring it with you to buy the new stuff. I like to make patch panels out of the thickest stuff that I'll be able to bend into shape. For nearly-flat panels, I go as thick as I can get away with, since it's stupid-easy to weld. For curved stuff, just figure out what gauge the original was, and go slightly thicker or use the exact same stuff.

 

[Rollman]

18 gauge steel should be more then fine . As for wire .023 -025 is what you want to use. The only problem is I doubt your going to find Flex core in anything less then 030. Becareful not to over heat the panels or you'll warp them , you can use anti splatter spray to help in the cleanup.

I don't know what your working on , however you can get most panels and cab corners ready to weld in from aftermarket companies. A flanging tool is a nice clean way of joining your pieces together. Cleco fastens are super handie in holding panels together. Get yourself an Eastwood catalog if you don't have one.
http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/...?itemID=1219&itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID=1219

 

[rodwerkz]

Flux core = junk..You need thinner wire too. .023 is perfect for sheet. 18 ga is usually a good match for old tin.

Now as far as making the panel. First off cab corners are tricky pieces so you may want to consider buying vs fabing to avoid frustration, this being an early project. If you are in the mood to make it happen the best method will be something like the following: Stretch the center, tuck shrink the edges, planish and smooth the whole damn thing. Take a look at metalmeet.com for some examples for further info (search cab corners, tuck shrinking).

You could of course halffast it by forming smaller pices and welding them together to get the basic shape. spread some plastic on it and it should look reasonable.

Now as far as welding. A flange weld is generally not my preference but it might be the easiest for you to accomplish. A ****-weld is really the prefered way to do it but can be challenging for a beginner. If you do go the flange weld method be sure to use a good weld through primer in all flanged joints to protect them from corrosion. You will want to start by putting small tacks all the way around the panel. You should then stitch the panel on by welding about 1/4" to 1/2" at a time. Wait for the last stich to cool before moving onto the next. Hammer and dolly work as you go will help you correct and restretch the welded seams before distortion gets out of hand. I'd also suggest putting a piece of copper plate behind the seam while you weld to avoid overheating the surface and help you avoid burn through.

 

[the intimidator]

Thanks for the help guy's I have been reading around and It seems I should be able to weld with .030 flux cored wire and get pretty good results. I would convert this machine to gas but the amount of mony to be spent on the conversion I would be nearly halfway to a miller matic 175. which I plan to buy in the new year and I am going to sell this lil lincoln machine so I would rather not poor any mony into it which I will likly not make back. I am working on my 1990 k-1500 chevy It has nearly all the typical rust of a early 90's chevy that has been on a steady diet of salt for 6 months of the year.

I have looked into the pre-made patch panels but I have been told they will still require alot of tweeking before they fit right and the price of them I would be better off to get a couple sheets of sheetmetal and learn a new skill at the same time. which brings me to my next question what are some of the basic tools I will need to bend and shape the steel efficiently? I figure I should be able to get by with my vise with some angle iron on the jaws to do basic bends as I am only working on small parts It has worked before with pretty good results. but I am completly lost when it comes to making curves and shaping the steel I figure If I pick up some tools I should be able to figure it out but I am unsure of the basic tools any help thanks

 

[rodwerkz]

I still think you should go with finer wire and gas but you can give a wack. I know what the manufacturers will say about .030 but in practice it will be difficult for you...

To do this the right way and get yourself into sheet metal working you'll need the following tools:

1. a decent hammer and dolly set. Perhaps the beginners Martin set from easwood would be a good place to start. You will use this primarily for flattenting and tweaking the panel once attached. You will also use the pick hammer and body hammer for some of your forming work.
2. a tucking pick for shrinking the outside of the panel (check metalmeet.com on how to make one).
3. pick yourself up a leather bag and a mid-size tear drop hammer. You will use this to stretch the inside of the panel.

Essentially you'll use shrinking and stretching to form your curves. Search a few articles on metalmeet for tuck shrinking and general panel forming articles. Should be a fun project for you to learn on.. take your time, do alot of research. I'd also suggest picking up a few sponsored videos from this site as well..

Note that there are all sorts of ways to form sheet metal, these are just a few chosen and common methods. Sometimes wacking sheet over a wood form or over a vice will get you the shape you need. I still resort to these methods depending on the situation and the shape i need to make. Again, start with research and figure out how you want to approach this..

 

[the intimidator]

Thanks for the refference to the site There is a couple nights worth of reading there lol

I will look into this some more and post pics of my progress along the way thanks for all the help guy's

 

[Acebusa]

I Would have to say that it could be done with a flux core, I do not prefer them but if its all you have it can work, you must be careful in welding your new pannel in. if you get it too hot it will warp really bad, and will cause you more work. you only need to spot it in with about 5/16 bead, every 3/4 to 1" if you weld too long the pannel will warp. with good welding skill just a spot weld every inch will never break, but with the flux core you should due around 3/8 to ensure the penitration you need. Once the panel is welded, I prefer behind the project, I clean the surface and use a rough sandpaper, 36grit, or coarser, and scratch it up really well. then use dura glass filler, and smooth out all seams, and dents. then top with z-grip filler, to fill pin hole, and minor defects. Dont forget to coat the back with an under coat or you can count on rust very soon down the road.

 

[Down Under Bloke]

I’ve taken on board the comments about flux V gas and the moment I’m welding in my garage / shop rather than on it I’ll go gas.

 

[the intimidator]

Well I just came up with another good reason to stick with fluxcore wire I am going to be tackling this project outside for the most part as I do not have a coverd shop or other area to work with. I would probably be worse off with gas cause it would never get to the weld before the wind blows it all away lol thanks for the pointers guy's I am going to the steel yard tommorow to see what they have lying around for sheetmetal I should be able to pick up enough to do lots of practice before I tackle the truck