Sheetrock questions - over my head

[pancho400cid]

Hi guys - This is really in the house not the garage, but would appreciate any input. House was built in the 50's and has very thin sheetrock (1/4" or 3/8" thick) for the ceiling (over my head get it!!??). It has cracked all the way across in the master bedroom, and I plan to fix it. Someone already repaired it long ago, but it didn't stay fixed (re-cracked in the same place). The foundation appears sound, but I guess settling over the decades and the thin matl let it crack.

Should I pull down the existing or can I just add a layer of thicker sheetrock over it? I think the modern standard is 1/2" or 5/8" thick?

Pulling down the old would be a huge mess and would let blown insulation and decades of filth fall into the house. Guess I could clean from above before pulling it down but that is a sizeable chore in itself.

Thoughts?

 

[trainer]

strap with 1x lumber and new sheetrock

 

[Pack Rat]

I had the same thing in my house (built in 1954).
I had drywallers come in and put up 1/4 inch drywall over the existing ceiling.
They used screws and adhesive. They did an excellent job of taping and sanding.
My wife did the priming and painting. It looks great and the repair is not noticable.

 

[Zeke]

Just go over the existing. Use appropriately longer screws.

 

[Cyberbear]

I once lived in a small home built in 1953 and the living room ceiling had a continuous crack the full 25' length of the lath & plaster. I decided to patch the crack then have blown on texture installed. and that worked well for decades.
You may want to check the size of your existing ceiling joists before adding any more weight to your existing ones, and then decide what to do.

 

[ddawg16]

Hi guys - This is really in the house not the garage, but would appreciate any input. House was built in the 50's and has very thin sheetrock (1/4" or 3/8" thick) for the ceiling (over my head get it!!??). It has cracked all the way across in the master bedroom, and I plan to fix it. Someone already repaired it long ago, but it didn't stay fixed (re-cracked in the same place). The foundation appears sound, but I guess settling over the decades and the thin matl let it crack.

Should I pull down the existing or can I just add a layer of thicker sheetrock over it? I think the modern standard is 1/2" or 5/8" thick?

Pulling down the old would be a huge mess and would let blown insulation and decades of filth fall into the house. Guess I could clean from above before pulling it down but that is a sizeable chore in itself.

Thoughts?

Are you sure about the thickness? Back then they used a 1/2" strip of gypsum board and then hand covered that with wet gypsum...or something like that.

In either case....as the other said....toss a 1/2" sheet up there....and make sure you use the right screws....you want at least 3/4" of screw into the ceiling joist.

 

[Thumper68]

I would just put new over the old making sure to hit the wood, get into the attic if you can and make sure that you know what the spacing is. Had to go redo a job last fall that some hacks went in and just ran the screws into the lath.

 

[drivesitfar]

I'd vote for putting another layer of new sheetrock over or on top of the existing. i'm not sure if they make 1/4 inch any longer, but it probably would be ok to use that. I haven't sheet rocked anything for a few years now, but normal size 1/2 or 5/8 and what type depends on it's application.

yes i agree to use longer screws and make sure you hit ceiling joists or it will fall on you. mudding and taping isn't an easy DIY so if you know someone that does that you might want to hire it out. do you have any lights in the ceiling and if so you'll need to maybe get longer screws for it too if the ones in it can't be loosened a half inch or so.

good luck and welcome to garage journal's forums.

 

[pancho400cid]

Thanks all. It is definitely sheetrock and not plaster-and-lath. Glad to hear no one advocates pulling the old stuff down. The roof joists and other framing that holds it up is plenty hefty. I plan to get in the attic and drill small holes thru the ceiling to mark the edges of the joists/framing as needed. Then pop chalk lines 3/4" over from the holes - more-or-less centered on the 2x lumber - to mark where to sink the screws. Probably use some construction adhesive too. I'm a belt-and-suspenders guy.

Appreciate the input!

 

[rslaback]

No one can tell you what an adequate thickness would be without knowing the joist spacing. Unless it is 12" centers I wouldn't even consider anything less than 1/2" Too much potential for sagging to justify the cost savings.

 

[plott hound]

personally I would pull all the old stuff down and get some vapour barrier up there.but I always like the path of MOST resistents.

 

[Dominico]

If your house was built in the 50's what you have is called Rocklath this is what replaced the old wooden lath. The rocklath was then scratch coated with a base coat plaster sometimes called brown coat. The base coat was then followed up with a finish or lime coat that was mixed on a mortar board with gauging. The gauging is what made the lime coat set/dry. The lime coat was then troweled smooth by the plasters.

You can go over the existing ceiling as long as it isn't too bad. I would recommend 1/2" board. You are on the right path with chalk lines. You do not need to go in the attic to find them. Determine the way the ceiling joist run. Start in the corner of the ceiling and measure out 16" and make a mark. Then take a spike and drive it in a little bit to see if a stud is there (don't worry about the hole your going to cover it with board anyhow). If it isn't there keep moving the spike until you locate the first joist. Once you find it drive the spike half way in and hook your tape to it. Then measure 16,32,48 etc. and mark the measurements with your pencil. Do this on each end of the ceiling. Now take your chalk line and pull a string from one mark to the other and snap the chalk line (your joists are know marked). Take a pencil and carry the line down the wall about 2". You will need to see the pencil mark on the wall when you put up the first row as you will be facing the wall when you raise the sheet. This will help you until you can turn around and see the chalk lines on the old ceiling.

When you hang the drywall board start in a corner. Take a measurement and see where your sheet breaks. Depending on the length of drywall board you are using will determine which corner you start in. Utilize as much of the sheet as possible i.e. the sheet may break at a joist better on one side of the ceiling or the other. Don't forget to stager the joints.

Use liquid nails on the backside of the board and long screws. Drive in one screw on each factory edge of the board. Then in the center or field of the board drive 2 or 3 sets of screws in each joist placed a couple inches apart or a series of single screws placed about 6" apart (if you use sets use 2 screws per set - either way try to not break the paper when counter sinking them in the board). For the **** end of the board (this is the end you cut where the next sheet butts up) use plenty of liquid nails on the **** end and place screws about 3" apart.

Once the board is hung pull any loose paper off and dig out any loose board on the **** joints. Then prefill with mud usually Durabond 90 easy sand (the 90 is the set time or amount of time you have to work with it before drying i.e. 90,45,20 min.). This extra step will help fill the void behind the tape as the tape has a tendency to shrink into the void behind it. It also lessens the chance for possible cracking down the road and makes finishing easier. Now run your tape and apply a series finish coats. Brush or lightly sand the second to last coat. Then apply the finish coat and sand with a fine paper. A sanding sponge will help you fine tune small areas.

I grew up in a family business that has done plaster and drywall for three generations. I no longer do it however the business is still alive and carrying on the family tradition. Hope this help you!

 

[7echo]

There is a type of drywall called ceiling board. It is much stiffer than the regular board and is better for spans and framing that is sometimes not up to spec. It will not be at a building center, more likely at a drywall supply house. Even for a small load they will deliver, at least around here.

 

[volleyball]

An alternative would be to get latex caulk and caulk the joint use a putty knife to push it in. Sand and paint. The caulk allows for house movement without cracking.
If you have 1/4" up there now, it is not original.
If you want new, go with 1/4" with adhesive to glue it to the existing board.

 

[SteveCh]

i'm not sure if they make 1/4 inch any longer, but it probably would be ok to use that.

Around here, Denver area, both HD and Lowe's are now carrying 1/4" and 3/8"....I say "now," because I only began noticing it about a year ago. Before that, if I needed some, I had to special order it from my neighborhood lumber yard.

 

[drivesitfar]

Pancho: Dominico had a great post for any of us wanting to cover up a ceiling that has flaws without pulling it down and starting over with the mess coming down from above.

i'd make sure the tresses or framing is actually on 16 inch center or find out what the spacing is so maybe one trip in the attic to check for sure if you want to measure from below like he mentioned.

I like what he said about extending the chalk line down the wall a couple inches. i might also pop a few chalk lines on the new piece once you have it secured with a few screws if you have any issues about guessing where the screws go in the new white 4 foot space while you are stretching and looking upward.

If it were me i'd still try to find somebody that does this professionally because hanging drywall and especially mudding and taping is definitely a skill not many of us have. i've done quite a few myself in my time, but i'm by no means a pro and it was usually because the guys i knew that could do a better job were busy.

good luck

Steve: i haven't been in that section of HD or Lowes for a while and i'll have to take a look the next time down there to see what's new or available.

 

[John in OH]

Sure sounds as if Dominico knows of what he speaks!! His recommendations make a lot of sense.

You sure don't need to pull down the existing material ... that would be an epic mess!

Though not relevant to your situation, I'll relate an excellent repair done in my old farmhouse. Main part of house was built in 1846 with "new additions" added in the 1920s. Several of the rooms had ceiling plaster & lathe that appeared on the verge of caving in. Contractor ran new 1x4 strips on 16" centers (leaving old plaster/lathe in place) perpendicular to the old joists. Then installed new 1/2" drywall. The new ceilings look great!

 

[pancho400cid]

Hey all:

Really appreciate the info.

Dominico - Thanks a lot for the detailed post. Really good stuff! Love the Camaro in your avatar pic too!

 

[dhubbard422]

I don't know how familiar you are with old houses in Austin... so, this is just a quick note about my experiences with old houses and some of the soils in Austin.

Many areas in or near Austin, especially those east of I-35 and even many areas east of Mopac, have expansive soils (black dirt high in clay) which will cause movement of the foundation and walls which may cause the sheetrock to crack in your old house. The extreme drought that we are experiencing combined with random flash flooding greatly contributes to this problem. Even your landscaping and watering habits can affect this.

I have owned 3 different old houses in Austin and everyone of them experienced this issue over time; sheetrock cracks would usually appear in 2 or 3 years. Since drywall is very rigid, it wouldn't surprise me if the new drywall also cracks in a few years, especially, if this drought continues. If there isn't any real risk of the ceiling collapsing... and all of your doors and windows open freely, you may just want to patch the crack.


Hope this helps,
Don

 

[Dominico]

Hey all:

Really appreciate the info.

Dominico - Thanks a lot for the detailed post. Really good stuff! Love the Camaro in your avatar pic too!

Your welcome! One more tip if you choose to prefill with the Durabond light weight easy sand 90 I use the type that needs to be mixed with water. It is available at Lowes or Home Depot a bag is about $8-$10. You will need to mix it in your pan or a bucket. Try not to mix more than you can handle within the 90 minute set time. Make sure your drywall compound is thick in consistency not soupy. If it is too thin it will droop or sag out of the voids. Let it dry completely before taping. Preparation is the key to no or limited cracking over the years. Good luck and shoot me a message if you should need any other advice.

BTW thanks for the complement on my Camaro!

 

[TheGunCollector]

I don't follow everything to the T, but here is a good resource on drywall for beginners.

http://www.drywallschool.com/

 

[pancho400cid]

I have owned 3 different old houses in Austin and everyone of them experienced this issue over time; sheetrock cracks would usually appear in 2 or 3 years. Since drywall is very rigid, it wouldn't surprise me if the new drywall also cracks in a few years, especially, if this drought continues. If there isn't any real risk of the ceiling collapsing... and all of your doors and windows open freely, you may just want to patch the crack.

Oh man.... I appreciate the heads up. I'm well familiar with the clay soil around here and the he77 it plays on drywall. The house in question is on a concrete foundation (built just after they started doing that), but I've had a couple on pier-and-beam in the exact area you're talking about and it was CRAZY how much they moved around. This house is very stable by comparison so I think it will be ok.... let's hope.

Thanks for the link on drywall basics. I'll read over the info. I've done some drywall work before that came out good, but mostly smaller repairs.