Shop door glass security ideas

[artieb]

Hi, I have a man door for the shop that has chicken wire laminated the glass. How secure are these to an intrusion? I'm thinking about expanded metal, or similar. Something the pattern is small enough, that an intruder, can't reach inside with his or her hands.
The door is very heavy, and the metal is thick enough, that I could drill and tap a security fastner. Any advantages of security metal being on the inside or outside?
Before anyone mentions, my hinges, being on the outside, the pins are welded, so they cannot be simply knocked out. Any ideas would be welcomed.

 

[toolmiser]

How about a film on the glass to increase security, and keep people from looking in?

 

[artieb]

I have the Tint covered. I have a friend who does commercial buildings tinting, and is going to hook me up.

 

[nh_yota]

Traditional wire mesh glass is used more for fire resistance than security. Wire mesh glass is actually weaker than standard glass because of the embedded wire, which acts as a fracture point in the glass. The wire is designed to keep the glass in position when it cracks from the heat of a fire in order to slow the spread of the fire. As such, wire mesh has greater potential for injury because of its lesser strength and greater ability to remain in place after fracturing. In a nutshell - if someone was to try and break the glass and reach in, the window would not put up a big fight but their arm would get beat up pretty good in the process. The use of traditional wire mesh glass is on the decline and has been replaced by more modern types of fire-resistant and impact-resistant laminated glass.

You could install a set of bars on the inside of the window to increase the amount of effort it would take for someone to break in. However, if they are determined thieves, they would just break the whole door in with a pry bar. I think window tint is a great idea because thieves are less likely to break in if they're not sure it would be worth it (meaning they don't know what's inside).

 

[artieb]

I would rather use something with a tighter mesh, I have a panic strip for the exit. What are the pros and cons of installing the metal on the inside verses the outside? Other than esthetics?
Good info on the wire sandwiched in the window panes! Thanks

 

[homebuilt burner]

One place I worked, we had expanded metal on the inside of the doors with an L-shaped metal strapping around the outside of the expanded metal. The thought was that a crook doesn't know where the fastners are. We also had the big heavy dead bolt locks, two per door that was accessible for the outside, with something like 4' well casing welded around them. The other doors all had sliding dead bolts from the inside made out of 1" nuts welded to the doors with 7/8" shaft for locking "bolts" on both sides of each door.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

3M makes a variety of security films that apply to glass and hold it in the frame if broken. It is in several strengths and thickness's and ( of course ) costs. It ranges from light wieight stuff just to prevent injuries, to heavy gauge material that is designed for jewelry stores and similar applications. It also can be used to keep plate glass windows in place in storms and explosions so the shards don't go sailing and cause injuries.

By the way, the glass with chicken wire is not allowed ( if you want to follow codes ) in doors, in side lites ( next to doors ) or in corridors. ..and NO where in a school. It causes too many injuries. Serious ones.



JBP



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[artieb]

I'm about ready to install some expanded metal on my door.
Should I put it on the outside, so thieves know what to bring for an invasion?
Or inside, and make them get the cordless saw out of the van?

 

[404]

By the way, the glass with chicken wire is not allowed ( if you want to follow codes ) in doors, in side lites ( next to doors ) or in corridors. ..and NO where in a school. It causes too many injuries. Serious ones.
.

Which is funny as my school had wire glass windows in all the doors and side lights.

 

[maxpower_hd]

I would go with bars with angle or something on the sides. I agree the glass wouldn't stop much. Or just get a new fire rated steel door without a window in it.

 

[DC73]

I'm about ready to install some expanded metal on my door.
Should I put it on the outside, so thieves know what to bring for an invasion?
Or inside, and make them get the cordless saw out of the van?

How about both sides? A bit of overkill in this case might be the best answer.

DC

 

[matt_i]

I would put expanded metal on the inside to reduce corrosion. Use a fair amount of sheetmetal screws. Put it behind the tint so its not something that can be planned-for.

My high school was also built of 100% wire glass windows in all the doors.

 

[artieb]

Im going to go inside, I live in a rural area. I have never had an incident. Im at an age that I can snowbird. My garage is a vault, except for glass. Thanks Artie

 

[Zeke]

You just have that one lockset on that door? Not enough. i think the wire mesh on the inside is s good call. I hope it's real heavy duty.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I always thought the biggest problem witha window in a door like that is the location to the lock. All that needs to be done is get access through the bottom right of the window to reach in and unlock the door from the inside.

I'd prefer not to have a window or a small one higher up in the door. Window tint is good but at night, any lights on will generally allow those outside to see inside. If you tint the window dark enough to so they can see inside at any time, why bother having the window in the first place.

Are your hinges designed so they can't drive the door pins out ? Do all the security you want to the window but if the hinge pins can be removed, those low lifes will get in.

You mention snow birding, if you snowbird, you're gone for long periods of time with nobody around. If that is the case. I'd consider just replacing the door to a non window door. Have you thought about welding a plate to cover the door bolt too ? Best of luck in your security measures.

 

[Zeke]

I always thought the biggest problem witha window in a door like that is the location to the lock. All that needs to be done is get access through the bottom right of the window to reach in and unlock the door from the inside.

I'd prefer not to have a window or a small one higher up in the door. Window tint is good but at night, any lights on will generally allow those outside to see inside. If you tint the window dark enough to so they can see inside at any time, why bother having the window in the first place.

Are your hinges designed so they can't drive the door pins out ? Do all the security you want to the window but if the hinge pins can be removed, those low lifes will get in.

He said they were.

You mention snow birding, if you snowbird, you're gone for long periods of time with nobody around. If that is the case. I'd consider just replacing the door to a non window door. Have you thought about welding a plate to cover the door bolt too ? Best of luck in your security measures.

Don't take me as a jerk. You know I was in the door and window biz for many, many years. I've never seen a door taken off by removing the pins.
If you've never done it, don't say you can because you can't do that with any less force and damage as it takes to simply pry the open.

Don't believe me? Then go do one and show me the pics. (There is one codicil though, the door has to have a dead bolt and locked.)

 

[DonPowers]

I always thought the biggest problem witha window in a door like that is the location to the lock. All that needs to be done is get access through the bottom right of the window to reach in and unlock the door from the inside.

I'd prefer not to have a window or a small one higher up in the door. Window tint is good but at night, any lights on will generally allow those outside to see inside. If you tint the window dark enough to so they can see inside at any time, why bother having the window in the first place.

Are your hinges designed so they can't drive the door pins out ? Do all the security you want to the window but if the hinge pins can be removed, those low lifes will get in.

You mention snow birding, if you snowbird, you're gone for long periods of time with nobody around. If that is the case. I'd consider just replacing the door to a non window door. Have you thought about welding a plate to cover the door bolt too ? Best of luck in your security measures.

^ This is what I would do and it may be cheaper.

I installed a 12ga steel door with steel frame and deadbolt. Also, didn't put any windows on the first floor except the ones on the overhead doors, they are 9 ft up and to small for access.

 

[NUTTSGT]

He said they were.




Don't take me as a jerk. You know I was in the door and window biz for many, many years. I've never seen a door taken off by removing the pins.
If you've never done it, don't say you can because you can't do that with any less force and damage as it takes to simply pry the open.

Don't believe me? Then go do one and show me the pics. (There is one codicil though, the door has to have a dead bolt and locked.)

On the hinge pins, you're right, I missed that.

On the later, Yep, knew you were in the construction side for many years and that's why I listen up when you talk. But keep in mind what I do for a living and part of it is forced entry. Sometimes we (in the fire service) have to think outside the box and devise different ways to gain entry on the situation. I have taken a door off by knocking it off it's hinges with a sledge. A readily available halligan helps at making short work of a door also.

EDIT: Honestly, I'msurprised more thives haven't anted up the cash to buy one to make short work of entry doors.

 

[OccupantRJ]

1/4" Lexan over the window on the inside, held by studs welded to flatbar strips surrounding the window that are on the outside of the door. Use more drilled flat bar strips on the inside as a washer to create a sandwich effect. It will be more secure than the door itself.

 

[nadogail]

Short of ordering a new door from Diebold, metal bars and expanded metal sheets attached with *** Bolts is my advice.

 

[engineer2]

I think I would hang this on the door for improved security.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Which is funny as my school had wire glass windows in all the doors and side lights.

The word "had" is great in this sense. If the school still "has" wired glass, you should smarten them up.



JBP


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[Spareparts]

A guillotine above the window, stick your hand in and leave it there, with the fingerprints attached. I hate lowlife thieves.

 

[NUTTSGT]

The word "had" is great in this sense. If the school still "has" wired glass, you should smarten them up.



JBP


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If the wire was "to code" when built, then it's likely being grandfathered though. When it's broke or the place is remodeled, more than likely, it'll have to be upgraded at that time.

 

[artieb]

I have been thinking, and I don't think I like the expanded metal.
I would like a heavy gauge woven wire. Something like about 2 to 3" square? Where would someone find this, besides internet sales?

 

[artieb]

I believe I'll try to use a section of chain link fence.