Shop Etiquette question for pro auto guys

[ckadams00]

I have a 2003 Ford Explorer (my wifes) - she uses it to drive the kids to school and it only has 70K on it, so I figure it is going to last a while longer. Obviously all the regular 70K items need to start being replaced. Recently had it checked out and it needs about $1300 worth of work. I like leaving the complicated stuff to the shop I use because they are really great to work with and honest, but I'd like to do some of the more straightforward stuff myself, like plugs, fuel filter, etc.

It needs a new engine gasket, and obviously the shop is going to do that for about $800 - but it also needs a new front wheel bearing. From what I've researched, I should be able to do this myself pretty handily - problem is, on Fords there are three inside wheel bearing bolts that are impossible to get off if the car is not up on a lift using an air ratchet (last I checked, my garage does not have a lift).

My question: If I spring for all the gasket work, how obnoxious is it to ask the guys at the ship to ratchet off the bolts for me so I can do the bearing work myself? I figure I can save about $300 - double that if I go ahead and replace both front hubs.

I wouldn't ask them to do it if I wasn't going to have other work done - I get that much - but I thought I'd ask the shop guys here if that is really obnoxious or it it makes sense to save where I can and pay for the pros to do the pro work?

Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[trackwelder]

Are you looking to change the bearing at the shop on their lift? I doubt any pro shop would go for that.

 

[phy6]

If you are already paying for something, just ask one of the young guys nicely. Walk in with a work shirt on and some grease on your hands. Worst they can say is no!

 

[Murphy4570]

No pro shop would let you use their lift, if that is what you are asking.

You also cannot drive the vehicle with those bolts removed, if what you are wanting to do is have them remove them, then drive the thing home and swap the bearing assy yourself. No bueno.

 

[PassnThru]

I don't get why it has to be on a lift specifically. As the owner of a 2007 Explorer that will eat a few bearings in it's lifetime I'm very curious. Also, at least my model year is being done by people using jacks and jack stands quite often.
If you want to work on your truck in their shop then I'll bet they bring up insurance as to why it would be a no no. I can understand that.

 

[pop pop]

Yes, you are being obnoxious.

 

[CorvZ961]

What engine is in your Explorer? Not sure if the 3v 5.4 was put in them in '03 but if your has that engine then you might consider letting the shot do the plugs too. Can be a hug PIA if you break a plug in the head which on the 3v 5.4 is very common.

 

[GMBracing]

If you don,t have the tools to do the job, You have 2 choices,get the tools or farm the job out to someone who does.

 

[jhelrey]

Wheel bearings are easy to do. You don't need a lift, just a floor jack and a jack stand

 

[odelay01]

I know that our shop would not let any customer use our lifts or loosen any items and then let the customer drive off in an unsafe vehicle. It comes down to an insurance liability issue.

 

[ckadams00]

No pro shop would let you use their lift, if that is what you are asking.

You also cannot drive the vehicle with those bolts removed, if what you are wanting to do is have them remove them, then drive the thing home and swap the bearing assy yourself. No bueno.

No sorry I should have been more clear. I just can't get the bolts off. Want them poped, and put back on. I can do the work at home on jcak stands. But believe me, I can't get these off even with an long extension . . .tried.

 

[wb2vsj]

No sorry I should have been more clear. I just can't get the bolts off. Want them poped, and put back on. I can do the work at home on jcak stands. But believe me, I can't get these off even with an long extension . . .tried.

Sounds like a perfect excuse to get yourself a nice Air Impact wrench (See your own sig line )
You will find that it is a "solution" looking for a "problem". i.e. you will find reasons to use it.

If it's a non-dealer type shop, maybe slip the guy $10 or a 12 pack of Pepsi to crack the bolts for you.

 

[Rtw5150]

The fronts are easy, I don't know why you wouldn't be able to take the bolts out, I did one in the side if the road with a 3/8 ratchet and a cheater bar. The back ones however you might want a shop to do, unless you have a really good shop press at home.

 

[dankicksass]

You aren't prepared to deal with what happens when a Ford 3V plug job goes badly. It's a huge pain in the ***. If you can't change the wheel bearing yourself, you don't want to extract broken plugs. It's not as easy as it looks on TV.

 

[djd99]

Sounds like a perfect excuse to get yourself a nice Air Impact wrench (See your own sig line )
You will find that it is a "solution" looking for a "problem". i.e. you will find reasons to use it.

If it's a non-dealer type shop, maybe slip the guy $10 or a 12 pack of Pepsi to crack the bolts for you.

My thoughts exactly. Honey If I buy this well save hundreds... lol

 

[BillK]

You aren't prepared to deal with what happens when a Ford 3V plug job goes badly. It's a huge pain in the ***

X10
And that is being nice about it


Also,
The front wheel bearing might not be as easy as you think either. 50% of the time my 17 ton press wont get the bearing out of the aluuminum spindle without application of the largest (5lb) Ford tool I own You are up in the rust belt and it will be even worse I would be extremely surprised if you get the bearing carrier out of the spindle with it still on the truck. Just giving you fair warning.

 

[csargents1546]

Explorers did not come with at 5.4 3v. They went up to 4.0l v6. You see the 5.4 in F150 and bigger.
Indy shop techs might be up for a slip of the hand and a 12 pack. All depends on your relationship with the tech. Like said before, worse they can say is no.

 

[split150]

I have a 2001 Explorer with the 3 bolt wheel bearing assembly on each front wheel, and those bolts can be very stubborn if never changed, but no match for any long handled ratchet or breaker bar. On mine, the bolts that held the caliper bracket were just as stubborn to break loose. If you only have something short, a short piece of pipe will make quick work of it for you.

 

[helterskelter]

I guess I don't understand how it's impossible for you to get the bolts loose by yourself. If they're that bad I personally wouldn't take a chance trying to loosen them for you without being paid for the entire job. What happens when one snaps?

If I were you I'd get a torch, some kroil and a piece of pipe and go to town. Just make sure you give the car a good shake before you get under it and start wrenching away on a pipe.

 

[srmofo]

whats an "engine gasket"?

being honest here. it sounds like you might be in over your head here. Im not saying you cant learn to do it, just saying you might want to rethink this idea unless you are committed to learning the hard way in your driveway.

if you cant get a socket and extension on it with it partially disassembled, how is the tech going to "just pop them loose" with it still fully assembled and all the while not getting paid for the extra work. If you are salary, how do you feel when your boss asks you to work extra hours for no extra pay? and if you are not salary, do you like to work for free? Why should your mechanic?.....you're not asking him for a simple favor like checking the air your tires

 

[CorvZ961]

Explorers did not come with at 5.4 3v. They went up to 4.0l v6. You see the 5.4 in F150 and bigger.
Indy shop techs might be up for a slip of the hand and a 12 pack. All depends on your relationship with the tech. Like said before, worse they can say is no.

I noticed he said explorer, was thinking expedition for some reason But you could get a 4.6 V8 in the explorer.

 

[Murphy4570]

I noticed he said explorer, was thinking expedition for some reason But you could get a 4.6 V8 in the explorer.

2003 Explorer was available with 4.0L SOHC V6 or 4.6L SOHC V8 engines. Neither are particularly hard to change sparkplugs on.

 

[K04GTI]

I don't know what an "engine gasket" is either. Also, you haven't explained what the difference is between a lift and jack stands. I don't see how your car can tell the difference. Just jack it up, put it on jack stands.

Have you used something like pb-blaster or a torch to help loosen the bolts? A really long cheater bar?

 

[mypov]

I would agree, sounds like this might be best left to those with the tools and know how - not that you don't have either, or can't acquire the know how/tools . . . You should pay the shop to do it, try to get buddy with one of the techs and slowly build relationship...as more jobs come up you might be able to ask your new "friend" (though most of us don't like when people "friend" us so we can work on their vehicles) to come and show you/help you/teach you how to do it right.
It is amazing how fast the simple screwing/unscrewing of nuts/bolts can go horribly wrong - you can be left stranded, injured, or dead just from simple ignorance. That being said, before I got my apprenticeship I would probably be so stubborn that I would attempt this on my own as well.
Good luck.

 

[TwoInch]

im thinking he was being non-specific when he said engine gasket. as in "they said it needed a gasket, and i am not comfortable tearing into the engine to change it" or as in "if it were a differential cover gasket, i would go for it, but not an engine gasket"

i cant imagine anyone knowing where plugs, fuel filters and wheel bearings are on a vehicle would think there is a gasket called an "engine gasket"

as for the OP, it does sound like it might be a bigger job than you are expecting, or it could go really smooth. but if you are struggling with those three bolts, i might consider letting someone do it. if you do decide to do it yourself, take your time, and if you cant get the bearing out of the spindle you can take it to a machine shop or trans/diff shop and have them do the press work. then bring the spindle back and put it back together yourself. wheel bearing are not super difficult, but you can run into set backs. escpecially if you dont have a well rounded tool set available.

throw it up on jack stands, get you a 24" breaker bar, and let them bolts have it.

 

[ajchien]

I'm a DIYer, and I wouldn't ask a shop to do that for me. Either I'd buy myself the tools so that i could do it myself, or I'd let the shop do their thing. Gotta remember, if you're doing it yourself, you should have enough (tools, knowledge, patience, obsessive compulsiveness muscle, parts, fluids, etc.) to bail yourself out if things don't go as planned.

 

[softailgarage]

Which gasket are you referring to when you say "engine gasket" & IF you find a shop to do that for you, make sure you tip the tech and if you ever want to use them again like that find out what the owner drinks and supply him with a bottle...or 6 (whatever it might be)

 

[ckadams00]

You aren't prepared to deal with what happens when a Ford 3V plug job goes badly. It's a huge pain in the ***. If you can't change the wheel bearing yourself, you don't want to extract broken plugs. It's not as easy as it looks on TV.

No going to do the plugs - I pulled the tires and wheels well on the passenger side and tried to get in there and there is no way I can do it with confidence I won't break one . . .so not gonna attempt it.

 

[ckadams00]

im thinking he was being non-specific when he said engine gasket. as in "they said it needed a gasket, and i am not comfortable tearing into the engine to change it" or as in "if it were a differential cover gasket, i would go for it, but not an engine gasket"

i cant imagine anyone knowing where plugs, fuel filters and wheel bearings are on a vehicle would think there is a gasket called an "engine gasket"

as for the OP, it does sound like it might be a bigger job than you are expecting, or it could go really smooth. but if you are struggling with those three bolts, i might consider letting someone do it. if you do decide to do it yourself, take your time, and if you cant get the bearing out of the spindle you can take it to a machine shop or trans/diff shop and have them do the press work. then bring the spindle back and put it back together yourself. wheel bearing are not super difficult, but you can run into set backs. escpecially if you dont have a well rounded tool set available.

throw it up on jack stands, get you a 24" breaker bar, and let them bolts have it.

Sorry was blowing past the details on the items I was clearly going to have the shop do. May just end up having the shop do the full job but I was hoping I could be able to handle the bearings . . .but nothing is as easy as it looks. Tried the PB Blaster, the breaker bar and a cheater. Just not enough room under there without putting the thing up on a lift.

Anyway I really appreciate everyone's input. . .especially the "you're in over your head" comments, because that is what is so valuable about all the experience on this site. Thanks guys!

Or I could just keep driving it with a bad bearing? My wife wanted to know what's the worst that could happen . . .two days later we drove past a Taurus with a front wheel that had fallen off. Don't know if it was a bearing, bad lug nut job, or something else that snapped on the suspension, but I told her "that's what happens". LOL

 

[GTO]

Yeah,ok
Let us know how you make out

 

[IONH]

I've got a 2006 Explorer with the 3V 4.6L and 70k miles. Bought the Lisle plug extraction tool for the reasons eluded to here about 2 years and 20k miles ago. Still haven't brought myself to actually attempt to change the plugs yet!

Back on topic. I had a shop I was a regular at loosen and tighten an axle nut for me once while I was in there for other work. Was no big deal. I'd say it's hit or miss though if you're some random guy off the street getting your first job done. Then add 3 wheels when they didn't have to take any of them off for the "engine gasket" job and you're even more likely to be SOL.

 

[carhunter]

The best analogy I've heard is comparing a shop to a restaurant..."You wouldn't walk into a restaurant with your own eggs, bacon and bread and ask them to cook it up, would you?"

That said, I hate the idea of paying someone $1300 to do work like that. In fact I hate paying anyone to do anything, but sometimes its necessary

 

[angzt]

I rebuilt a rearend not too long ago at home. Without a hydraulic press or 1"drive impact guns, GOOD LUCK! I got everything apart and powedercoated by myself..., but during final assembly I ended up just taking the specific parts to a local suspension shop here and they charged me like $23 to get everything seated.

 

[jhelrey]

X10
And that is being nice about it


Also,
The front wheel bearing might not be as easy as you think either. 50% of the time my 17 ton press wont get the bearing out of the aluuminum spindle without application of the largest (5lb) Ford tool I own You are up in the rust belt and it will be even worse I would be extremely surprised if you get the bearing carrier out of the spindle with it still on the truck. Just giving you fair warning.

Ford wheel bearings are usually bolt on from what I know. I could be wrong

 

[61falcon]

the bolts holding on the wheel bearing have loctite on them from the factory. heating the bolts softens the loctite and they come right out. pb blaster will do nothing in this situation.

 

[crewchief888]

.but nothing is as easy as it looks. Tried the PB Blaster, the breaker bar and a cheater. Just not enough room under there without putting the thing up on a lift.

Anyway I really appreciate everyone's input. . .especially the "you're in over your head" comments, because that is what is so valuable about all the experience on this site.

i dunno maybe i've been doing stuff wrong all my life.
i've changed transmissions, done clutches, changed springs, and swapped axles without ever having anything but a couple jackstands (and sometimes not even them)