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Shop Financing.

James-W

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
12,432
Location
Southeastern Wisconsin
I get it. That approach is fine if you have the cash available, understand the math, and are willing to take on some risk for the prospect of higher returns. How many people fit that category though?

If an average shop costs $30-60k, what percentage of the population will be able to pay for that at once? From those few people that actually have the money, what percentage are willing/able to deal with the additional stress of financing/investing instead of just having the thing paid for? You're completely right that it can, and probably will work out better to finance and invest but that approach only works for a pretty small segment of the population. For the rest, financing a shop build is not a wise financial decision, or comes with too much risk. Using a house for collateral, or taking the funds from retirement savings just compounds the risk.
I will give you my thoughts on this, but I agree that everyone should decide for themselves what is in their best financial interest.

When my older brother passed away he left me all his tools. He had a lot of tools, including a lathe, mill, large floor model drill, metal cutting bandsaw, numerous pieces of sharpening equipment, and a whole bunch of hand tools. Needless to say, I didn’t just want a larger garage, I needed a larger garage.

To build a garage around here, you need permission from the local building department. I went there, spoke with the guy in charge, and found out exactly what I could or couldn’t do. Once I knew what was allowed, I could work on a plan for building a garage that would fit my needs and would conform to the local building code restrictions.

I went to a lumber yard in another city, one that I had known about for some time because in the past I had helped friends work on projects and they had purchased building materials from this place with very good results. They not only sell lumber and other building supplies, they also build trusses. They have a structural engineer working there and he will design the building, come up with the correct trusses that you need, and he will make you detailed drawings to give to your local building department, all for free, provided you buy all the building materials from them.

Once I had the drawings, I submitted them to the local building department. They were approved the next day with no problems at all. So I got the permits, and started the garage. I did most of the work myself, with the help of friends. The garage cost me right at $30K which was quite cheap compared to having a contractor build it for me.

Now, I said all that to give you a brief background of how my garage came to be. Building the garage for $30K is not something I needed to finance, I could have paid cash, but I financed it because paying cash would have ended up costing me more money than financing it. Taking out a loan against my house (which was paid for) and deducting the interest I paid, and leaving my money invested and making money for me, was by far a better financial decision than removing money from investments and paying cash.

But beyond that, the money I spent on the garage is not actually gone, at least a portion of it will be recouped should we decide to sell the house. I imagine in some areas of the country having a garage is not a big deal, but around here having a garage is something most everyone wants. Around here having a large garage that has storage up on top, is even more desirable. I may not get back the entire $30K I spent to build the garage, but I should get a large portion of it back and if I get the right buyer, I may possibly get it all back. What it all boils down to is, I get a place to work in and store all the equipment I have, and if I sell the property I get back at least a large portion of the money it cost to build. I feel like it is the best of both worlds.

In the final analysis, having debt is not some evil thing to be avoided at all costs, although that would appear to be the thinking of some people. Having sensible debt can, at least in some cases, actually be a good thing. If you choose your debt wisely you can come out ahead in the long term and in the process you can live a more comfortable life.
 
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stm317

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Joined
Aug 8, 2017
Messages
1,339
Yeah. I get it. Really I do. But it's important to understand that you're not the "norm" if you're fortunate enough to have that flexibility to choose whether to pay up front or finance. Statistically, the vast majority of people can't do what you did, so suggesting what works for a minority of situations as being a good idea, and failing to mention that it only applies to a minority of the situations out there isn't telling the whole story.

Nowhere have I suggested that it's not a valid choice for those with the means. But I think it's important to note that the benefits that you've rightly brought up are only valid for those with the means to pay up front. Otherwise, people are free to read what you wrote and think that financing is the smart move for most situations, and statistically, that's not accurate.

At this point, I think we're both just repeating what we've already said, so I'll leave it at that.
 

James-W

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Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
12,432
Location
Southeastern Wisconsin
Yeah. I get it. Really I do. But it's important to understand that you're not the "norm" if you're fortunate enough to have that flexibility to choose whether to pay up front or finance. Statistically, the vast majority of people can't do what you did, so suggesting what works for a minority of situations as being a good idea, and failing to mention that it only applies to a minority of the situations out there isn't telling the whole story.

Nowhere have I suggested that it's not a valid choice for those with the means. But I think it's important to note that the benefits that you've rightly brought up are only valid for those with the means to pay up front. Otherwise, people are free to read what you wrote and think that financing is the smart move for most situations, and statistically, that's not accurate.

At this point, I think we're both just repeating what we've already said, so I'll leave it at that.
Let me say one more thing and then I will shut up. Whether you have the means to pay cash, or you have no choice except to finance the garage, it may still be in your best financial interest to take out a loan rather than wait until you save up enough money to build it.

The reasoning is twofold, one reason is because the cost of building materials seems to go up every year so the cost to build it later will most likely be more if you wait. When I built my garage the cost was $30K but if I were to build the same garage today I am sure the cost would be at least $5K more and probably even more than that. Also, if the wife and I decide to sell the house we would recoup a large part of that money back so it isn't like we borrowed money to go gambling and lost it.

The second reason is, if you build it now you will have longer to enjoy it. We have no idea how much time we have left in this world. Also, we have no idea what the future will bring. For all we know may get sick and not be able to enjoy a nice garage several years from now. It would be nice to enjoy it while we are still able to do so.

Basically, my advice is to sit down and do the math. If you have a reasonably stable job and you can afford to make the payments without any difficulty, and the interest rate is acceptable, then I would say to go ahead and do it. You work hard and you should be able to have at least a few of the things that make you happy. I am not saying you should build something you can't afford and only you know what your financial situation is. But if you really want a nice garage and you have the means to pay for it, then my advice is to go ahead and do it. I am now done, this will be my last post in this thread. Feel free to comment as you see fit, we all have our own thoughts and ideas and we can all do as we think best.
 

nelstomlinson

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Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
649
Location
Interior Alaska
When it comes to historical low interest rates, it’s often NOT better to pay cash. You should be killing that with good investments. Consult your financial advisor for details.

Historically low interest rates mean historically low investment returns for historically high risk/return ratios. This is a great time to be out of all the financial markets. My money is going into land and heavy equipment.
 

nelstomlinson

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
649
Location
Interior Alaska
Chaos, the markets for land and heavy equipment depend on your location. The global financial markets are a bad deal everywhere on the globe.
 
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6768rogues

Banned
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,524
Location
Western NY
25 years ago I had some money but borrowed some on a home equity line of credit. I hate debt so I did side jobs evenings and Saturdays to pay it off in about a year.
 

wdrumheller

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Messages
198
Location
Virginia
Ok. I have been searching for months about the whole shop/home concept. My question is this. How are you all finding financing for them or are you all paying cash.

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I paid cash. Had a few business deals go well and got the money.
 

Norcal

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
13,751
My shop was pay as you go, but it was way cheaper to build in the early 1990's then now, the 3-tab shingles were a bit less then $200 then, small shop though.
 

PNWguy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
494
Location
Near Grants Pass, OR
I was thinking about making one a primary residence. Do any one you currently live in one as a home


For 10 of the last 20 years I lived in warehouses in industrial neighborhoods in LA and Oakland. Lots of pluses and minuses compared to living in a standard house or apartment. It was nice to have a forklift, mill, lathe, and full machine shop in a 6,000 sq ft "house", but not always.

I lived in a regular house, and squeezed my tools into a small 1950's one car garage for the past 7 years. It was hard to get anything done, because there was no damn room.

I recently sold the house and moved back to Oregon. I'm building a house/shop on family land. It'll be an 800 sq ft house, with an attached 2,000 sq ft shop (and both will have some upstairs space).

For me, it'll be a nice compromise of having a heated, clean shop attached to a small, easy maintenance house. It's all new construction, so heating will be inexpensive and I get to have exactly what I want (as long as I can afford it and the building department says I can).

In short, living in a shop is a commitment. If you decide to do it, be aware that the dating pool will be reduced to "just shy of crazy" and below.
 
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C

coodiny

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Messages
6
For 10 of the last 20 years I lived in warehouses in industrial neighborhoods in LA and Oakland. Lots of pluses and minuses compared to living in a standard house or apartment. It was nice to have a forklift, mill, lathe, and full machine shop in a 6,000 sq ft "house", but not always.

I lived in a regular house, and squeezed my tools into a small 1950's one car garage for the past 7 years. It was hard to get anything done, because there was no damn room.

I recently sold the house and moved back to Oregon. I'm building a house/shop on family land. It'll be an 800 sq ft house, with an attached 2,000 sq ft shop (and both will have some upstairs space).

For me, it'll be a nice compromise of having a heated, clean shop attached to a small, easy maintenance house. It's all new construction, so heating will be inexpensive and I get to have exactly what I want (as long as I can afford it and the building department says I can).

In short, living in a shop is a commitment. If you decide to do it, be aware that the dating pool will be reduced to "just shy of crazy" and below.
How are you financing the project

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