Shop/Garage Fires...

[mistervelocity]

I've run across a few during my time on GJ and it's always been a fear in the back of my mind. So, what I'm hoping for is that some of you guys who have actually had a shop fire will chime in and tell us what caused it or what you learned. Maybe the rest of us can take a good look at our own work spaces and make the necessary adjustments before we experience a thermal event.

Share your stories...

 

[fredtech]

Extremely good question! thank you.
Looking forward to see the comments

 

[andersen24]

I've done investigations for over 15 years and here are a few things I've noticed......easily the most common cause I have seen is improperly disposed of rags used for staining, linseed oil, etc. Electrical caused fires are the most overused cause and is typically a catch-all by inexperienced investigators. BUT for legit caused electrical fires common causes are people purchasing and overusing the cheap $4.99 power strips. Do yourself a favor and if you use one, spend some money and buy a good quality powerstrip! If a circuit breaker is tripping it means something is wrong. I am amazed how many times I have seen people yank a 15 amp CB and put in a 20amp CB to stop the trip!

And think of it what you want.........very rarely do clean shops/garages burn Of course there are always exceptions to that rule.

 

[Wojo]

Other thingI would like to know is how were your respective insurance companies to deal with. And how did they handle the loss of your tools and other items in your garage.

 

[andersen24]

Other thingI would like to know is how were your respective insurance companies to deal with. And how did they handle the loss of your tools and other items in your garage.

OK sorry, another soap box for me as I have seen literally hundreds of people get $crewed on insurance. Most people are underinsured. I was one of those people! Now I am probably overinsured, but I would rather pay an extra $100 to $200 a year for peace of mind.

As to insurance, they are similar in the fact that you will need to prove EVERYTHING! Pictures, pictures, pictures and receipts, receipts, receipts! Yes my home and shop are photographed probably excessive to what is necessary. I also scan all my receipts (not only for insurance but also since the IRS is not your friend!). I have a dropbox account so that way even if everything is lost, I still have the "cloud."

Regarding your insurance, when you have a loss, you won't be deaing with your agent. They sell a product, but their claims reps are the ones with the juice and who you will be dealing with. Their job is to pay the claim with the least amount of damage ($ paid out by the company) to the companies wallet. Think of insurance claims like a used car salesman (not to offend anyone). But they will lowball you and tell you this is all you will get. It is up to YOU to prove them wrong. And unless you CAN prove them wrong you will be up the creek. Stay strong and don't give up.

I helped coach an elderly couple who lost everything and was offered next to nothing. It took them 8 months to get their check, but the difference between what the initial "offer/settlement" by the insurance company and what they actually got was over $200k.

Sorry this is so long, but after doing this so long it is almost criminal what insurance "claim adjusters" try to get away with. The best advice though, is PLEASE don't skimp on your insurance to save a couple hundred bucks. Find the savings somehwere else, and PLEASE seriously everyone look at your insurance policies and make sure you have adequate insurance!

And if you are a renter, PLEASE spend the $250.00 a year and get renters insurance!

 

[wnstwolf]

We have had 4 in a ten mile radius over the past few years. Total devastation and scares the **** out of me. Here is what I know from these

1 was total fault of owner bringing in a a car that was known to have a fuel leak and had parts in garage to fix it. Kept putting it off till it was too late and car caught fire in garage and took the place with it.

Second due to an outdoor type wood fired furnace that backed up to the barn. Due to poor maintenance he had a chimney fire that quickly reached his beautiful garage and too it and his two daily drivers and tractors with it.

Third was another wood stove related fire that was blamed due to poor installation and chimney maintenance.

Fourth was a guy doing a lot of torch and grinding on a project frame belief is some slag or hot metal made it to some rags or other source and guy ran to store for lunch. 30 mins later the place was a blaze that killed a very nice hard working guys dream truck and garage

We also had a few lumber yards, timber processing plants, that have burned all due to dust build up and heating equipment.

All said I have a beautiful pot belly stove and will never light it in my barn. Just to fearful of what can happen. I really work at keeping up screens when welding or plasma cutting to keep sparks at bak and toss rags into a metal safe can when they are soaked with anything nasty.

Be careful guys these things are terrible to read about and are devasting to see what they do to our beautiful shops!!

 

[rburke65]

Who in the he'll has all their receipts for everything...tool...that they have ever purchased? I'll bet the insurance don't. I know that does not help me, but just saying. What if no receipts but tons of pictures? Any better? Thanks.

 

[dmftoy1]

Pictures are all you need. I had one about 25 years ago and was treated very well (of course I didn't have much then). Hardest part was remembering what I had. . . .

 

[shawnspeed]

And the other thing is many people do not read the fine print on most policy's that voids coverage with wood stoves & cutting torches...I found out from my insurance agent that almost all of my shop tools would have to be on a separate policy/ rider...since they were not considered "homeowner " tools...Shawn

 

[rburke65]

All very interesting. Thanks

 

[whitedogone]

I've run across a few during my time on GJ and it's always been a fear in the back of my mind. So, what I'm hoping for is that some of you guys who have actually had a shop fire will chime in and tell us what caused it or what you learned. Maybe the rest of us can take a good look at our own work spaces and make the necessary adjustments before we experience a thermal event.

Share your stories...

Is that you scott?

 

[andersen24]

Who in the he'll has all their receipts for everything...tool...that they have ever purchased? I'll bet the insurance don't. I know that does not help me, but just saying. What if no receipts but tons of pictures? Any better? Thanks.

Yes pictures will suffice. I was just recommending receipts for 100% no questions asked when used in correlation with pictures. They are going to devaule the "use" of the tool, i.e. depreciation.

And I am one of those **** retetentive people that keeps every receipt for everything. I have a program with my scanner that scans them and auto categorizes, etc. A small part of it is for insurance and warranties - but the biggest part is for the IRS. I have gone through a nasty audit and if you don't have a receipt, it does not exist in their eyes.....a WHOLE other subject in which I won't digress, or take this post off track.

Pictures and receipts are the best, pictures only are second best........

 

[whitedogone]

I deal with fires on a nearly daily basis on my job. I can say the common causes are electrical and improper storage - use of flammable materials.Naibours place just burnt pretty good. He had been welding and went inside. After a while he said he heard a pop and opened the door to find it totally engolfed.

 

[Catadj78]

OK sorry, another soap box for me as I have seen literally hundreds of people get $crewed on insurance. Most people are underinsured. I was one of those people! Now I am probably overinsured, but I would rather pay an extra $100 to $200 a year for peace of mind.

As to insurance, they are similar in the fact that you will need to prove EVERYTHING! Pictures, pictures, pictures and receipts, receipts, receipts! Yes my home and shop are photographed probably excessive to what is necessary. I also scan all my receipts (not only for insurance but also since the IRS is not your friend!). I have a dropbox account so that way even if everything is lost, I still have the "cloud."

Regarding your insurance, when you have a loss, you won't be deaing with your agent. They sell a product, but their claims reps are the ones with the juice and who you will be dealing with. Their job is to pay the claim with the least amount of damage ($ paid out by the company) to the companies wallet. Think of insurance claims like a used car salesman (not to offend anyone). But they will lowball you and tell you this is all you will get. It is up to YOU to prove them wrong. And unless you CAN prove them wrong you will be up the creek. Stay strong and don't give up.

I helped coach an elderly couple who lost everything and was offered next to nothing. It took them 8 months to get their check, but the difference between what the initial "offer/settlement" by the insurance company and what they actually got was over $200k.

Sorry this is so long, but after doing this so long it is almost criminal what insurance "claim adjusters" try to get away with. The best advice though, is PLEASE don't skimp on your insurance to save a couple hundred bucks. Find the savings somehwere else, and PLEASE seriously everyone look at your insurance policies and make sure you have adequate insurance!

And if you are a renter, PLEASE spend the $250.00 a year and get renters insurance!

I can tell you all companies and adjusters are NOT like this!

I do not know what company you were insured with but the ones I work for are NOT like this.

Regardless of what you think property adjusters job is NOT to pay out the least they can. That is HUGE misconception and people spreading this is what makes my job tougher than it needs to be.

 

[Jsf721]

What's a CB?

I've done investigations for over 15 years and here are a few things I've noticed......easily the most common cause I have seen is improperly disposed of rags used for staining, linseed oil, etc. Electrical caused fires are the most overused cause and is typically a catch-all by inexperienced investigators. BUT for legit caused electrical fires common causes are people purchasing and overusing the cheap $4.99 power strips. Do yourself a favor and if you use one, spend some money and buy a good quality powerstrip! If a circuit breaker is tripping it means something is wrong. I am amazed how many times I have seen people yank a 15 amp CB and put in a 20amp CB to stop the trip!

And think of it what you want.........very rarely do clean shops/garages burn Of course there are always exceptions to that rule.

 

[cbacres]

What's a CB?

Circuit breaker

 

[Showkey]

READ YOUR POLICY........talk to your agent. DO NOT assume your have great outbuilding garage coverage.

It does not matter if you have picture or receipts ........IF.......

Your policy says your outbuilding coverage is no more than 10% of your main living structure. Many standard policies are written this way.

So if you have a $200,000 home with $200,000 coverage your max coverage on your garage (outbuilding) is $20,000......usually that's structure and contents.

Solution .......add coverage for the structure and contents. As others have stated you are usually still in for fight to be made whole ...........

 

[andersen24]

I can tell you all companies and adjusters are NOT like this!

I do not know what company you were insured with but the ones I work for are NOT like this.

Regardless of what you think property adjusters job is NOT to pay out the least they can. That is HUGE misconception and people spreading this lie is what makes my job tougher than it needs to be.

I have never had a loss, I am an investigator. I am glad your company is not like this, but yes the majority are. I am an investigator that has literally dealt with hundreds upon hundreds of adjusters, and yes sadly, the MAJORITY are not your friend. They work for the company. Bottom line, have your ducks lined up, along with your documentation and you should be fine.

 

[Jlbc212]

Where I worked as I firefighter public adjusters are common. They represent the insured. They work to get the insured a fair settlement from the insurance company. They earn a percentage of the insurance claim. Often their percentage is well worth the cost to the insured. The public adjuster will show up at a fire scene and immediately begin to obtain temporary housing, provide board-up and other property salvage services. I only knew of one insurance agent who would come to a fire scene to assist an insured client. Public adjusters know what to claim for losses, things that the average person would never think of. They also know how to expedite the whole process. However, like any other profession there are good ones and bad ones. Sadly, they shouldn't be necessary but insurance companies are notorious for looking for a reason not to pay on a claim and for being painfully slow to write a check.

 

[mistervelocity]

Is that you scott?

Nope. I'm Jess.


Andersen24, your input is exactly what I was looking for. I have pretty good photo documentation of my equipment/tools but I honestly haven't read my policy over in years. I should probably get with my agent and readjust my limits. A lot has changed since it was written.

Aside from that...
-I don't have any power strips or splitters. No circuits are overloaded.
-I use paper shop towels instead of rags but should probably acquire a metal rag can just for their disposal.
-All flammable chemicals and gas cans live in a metal cabinet. Not fireproof but better than out in the open.
-Every effort is made to direct sparks in safe directions when grinding/cutting.
-My heating source is a waste oil furnace. The chimney is to code and is triple wall. I can hold my hand on it. It's only in use when I'm working in the building.
-It's not a spotless work space but I do make an effort not to pile stuff up.

Any other suggestions?

 

[yeldogt]

In my case, I was jumping my garden tractor and the battery exploded or somehow something else sparked. The tractor was engulfed in seconds .. and seconds more the gas from it had flowed onto other flammables and then under one of the cars. Anyway -- I lost the house and three cars .. and my studio was damaged.

This was a bit over 2 years ago ... The disruption and associated stress is more then I had anticipated. In my worst dreams I never had it taking two years to settle the claim.

I could write a book!

Insurance is boring stuff .. but you have to look at your policy and ask questions. What people don't understand is that after the "basic policy" most of the upgrades are very inexpensive ... and those are the important ones!

I was insured with Chubb .. one of the best .. with everything covered. Full replacement at todays value: house/contents/studio/shop ... agreed value on the cars ... code insurance ... equal replacement housing. It was still a nightmare ... unbelievably time consuming.

When you add everything up at once .. the costs are staggering.

The rebuild starts this month .. finally.

 

[mike528]

Make sure to get replacement cost coverage. I only have renters insurance for 40k and it was only any extra $25 a year

 

[jimp]

Don't forget Arson (total loss).

Have State Farm and they were great.

 

[Honda guy]

Fire extinguishers!! Have a few good extinguishers readily available and know how to use them.

Over the years, I've put out 5 small fires, that easily could have turned into disasters. 2 snowmobiles, 1 jet ski, and 2 motorcycles. The jet ski incident taught me to have multiple extinguishers on hand. I grabbed the 1st extinguisher, pulled the trigger, and nothing! Grabbed the 2nd one, pulled the trigger, and same thing. Finally, the 3rd, and last one in the shop, worked.

I'm told, that every so often, you're supposed to turn your extinguishers upside down and tap them, to keep the chemical from packing down. A friend of mine was working on a 4-wheeler in his shop. The airbox was full of fuel and when he tried to start it, it backfired and ignited. He pointed the extinguisher at the flaming airbox and pulled the trigger. Apparently, the chemical was packed down at the bottom of the extinguisher, because the only thing that came out was propellant. When the propellant shot out, it blasted the flaming gasoline all over the shop. Luckily no one was hurt but he lost a nice shop and several vehicles in the fire.

From my observation, some/most people panic and aren't of much help. Keep your cool and be the guy that grabs the extinguisher and actually uses it!

 

[404]

In my case, I was jumping my garden tractor and the battery exploded or somehow something else sparked. The tractor was engulfed in seconds .. and seconds more the gas from it had flowed onto other flammables and then under one of the cars. Anyway -- I lost the house and three cars .. and my studio was damaged.

This was a bit over 2 years ago ... The disruption and associated stress is more then I had anticipated. In my worst dreams I never had it taking two years to settle the claim.

I could write a book!



Insurance is boring stuff .. but you have to look at your policy and ask questions. What people don't understand is that after the "basic policy" most of the upgrades are very inexpensive ... and those are the important ones!

I was insured with Chubb .. one of the best .. with everything covered. Full replacement at todays value: house/contents/studio/shop ... agreed value on the cars ... code insurance ... equal replacement housing. It was still a nightmare ... unbelievably time consuming.

When you add everything up at once .. the costs are staggering.

The rebuild starts this moth .. finally.

My sympathy and best wishes to you and your family. Wish I could buy you a

 

[404]

All and any with experience with what to do and not to do speak up!!!

I am happy to do a search and destroy mission to prevent fire if I know what to look for.

 

[why worry]

Two young boys (10&12), matches, rags and a match.... you guessed it burned down garage, two cars and lots more. Had State Farm insurance, adjuster was a pain but the agent stepped in and helped get the ball rolling. still almost a year from start to finish and I don't think the aggravation is ever worth the amount of the settlement. With that being said pictures and receipts and you will still have troubles they pay what they consider fair market value and you have a year to replace and argue about cost of items that exceed their estimate.
Why Worry

 

[404]

Don't forget Arson (total loss).

Have State Farm and they were great.

Hope you found and carbon dioxided the perpetrators

 

[Showkey]

Any other suggestions?

Do not store or leave battery packs in the charger.

Shop vacs should not be left plugged in.

Old worn extension cords............trash

Unfused or poor quality vehicle wiring modifications are big problem.

Believe it or not .....refueling running power equipment is a common problem. You are insured for stupidity.........just not for fraud or arson.

 

[lmalcomb]

OK sorry, another soap box for me as I have seen literally hundreds of people get $crewed on insurance. Most people are underinsured. I was one of those people! Now I am probably overinsured, but I would rather pay an extra $100 to $200 a year for peace of mind.

As to insurance, they are similar in the fact that you will need to prove EVERYTHING! Pictures, pictures, pictures and receipts, receipts, receipts! Yes my home and shop are photographed probably excessive to what is necessary. I also scan all my receipts (not only for insurance but also since the IRS is not your friend!). I have a dropbox account so that way even if everything is lost, I still have the "cloud."

Regarding your insurance, when you have a loss, you won't be deaing with your agent. They sell a product, but their claims reps are the ones with the juice and who you will be dealing with. Their job is to pay the claim with the least amount of damage ($ paid out by the company) to the companies wallet. Think of insurance claims like a used car salesman (not to offend anyone). But they will lowball you and tell you this is all you will get. It is up to YOU to prove them wrong. And unless you CAN prove them wrong you will be up the creek. Stay strong and don't give up.

I helped coach an elderly couple who lost everything and was offered next to nothing. It took them 8 months to get their check, but the difference between what the initial "offer/settlement" by the insurance company and what they actually got was over $200k.

Sorry this is so long, but after doing this so long it is almost criminal what insurance "claim adjusters" try to get away with. The best advice though, is PLEASE don't skimp on your insurance to save a couple hundred bucks. Find the savings somehwere else, and PLEASE seriously everyone look at your insurance policies and make sure you have adequate insurance!

And if you are a renter, PLEASE spend the $250.00 a year and get renters insurance!

I have been in the fire service for 31 years, but there is nothing I can add to this post other than to document the structure & contents. I would take both photos and video & update it annually.

 

[kingchevy]

Just a little more info on insurance coverage. I am building my shop and checked with my agent about coverage on the building and its contents. He said I already have $150,000 of "free" outbuilding insurance as part of my policy, but he made it clear that they won't cover anything that can be considered as business related tools and equipment. Basicly anything used to make a profit off of need a business policy..

 

[Rescue Wagon]

Since we are discussing Fires have those with attached garages insured they had a complete fire break to the rest of the house? And has anyone thought of adding a sprinkler system?

I have added a smoke detector from my alarm system in the garage, but wanna be as safe as possible since I have an attached garage.

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Fire extinguishers!! Have a few good extinguishers readily available and know how to use them.

Over the years, I've put out 5 small fires, that easily could have turned into disasters. 2 snowmobiles, 1 jet ski, and 2 motorcycles. The jet ski incident taught me to have multiple extinguishers on hand. I grabbed the 1st extinguisher, pulled the trigger, and nothing! Grabbed the 2nd one, pulled the trigger, and same thing. Finally, the 3rd, and last one in the shop, worked.

I'm told, that every so often, you're supposed to turn your extinguishers upside down and tap them, to keep the chemical from packing down. A friend of mine was working on a 4-wheeler in his shop. The airbox was full of fuel and when he tried to start it, it backfired and ignited. He pointed the extinguisher at the flaming airbox and pulled the trigger. Apparently, the chemical was packed down at the bottom of the extinguisher, because the only thing that came out was propellant. When the propellant shot out, it blasted the flaming gasoline all over the shop. Luckily no one was hurt but he lost a nice shop and several vehicles in the fire.

From my observation, some/most people panic and aren't of much help. Keep your cool and be the guy that grabs the extinguisher and actually uses it!

For that very reason, I have numerous types of fire extinguishers in my home, chemical, water, and CO2. One must certainly take them to the experts to have them checked and their function confirmed periodically. I've got some old ones that I'm certain will be problematic if needed. (note to self, get this done).

Also, worth its money is good fire blanket. I have one in my garage for not only personal protections, but a good fire blanket deployed correctly will smother smaller fires readily.

Also, having smoke detectors connected to the house alarm system and the external alarm service is also something that should be considered. Another thing that I have done, since I worked for a painting contractor previously.. I've got two liquid flammables storage cabinets one in my garage and one in my basement shop, insuring that common flammable materials are handled accordingly. One I got off of Craig's List for maybe $50, the other I got at a recent auction for $40 (needed work but its fully functioning now).

Don't forget to be cognizant of flammable gas tanks (e.g. propane, acetylene) and their storage inside or outside the work space.

I've had to recover from an apartment fire but no major loss in my adult life nor real fire concern in my garage or basement shops. I have learned from this thread that I should vacuum my basement shop and its open rafters for dust..that certainly an improvement I need to undertake (adding it to my to do list... ).

This is a good thread / conversation.... Keep 'em coming...

 

[brycez28]

Who in the he'll has all their receipts for everything...tool...that they have ever purchased? I'll bet the insurance don't. I know that does not help me, but just saying. What if no receipts but tons of pictures? Any better? Thanks.

I don't have receipts for anything that I bought more than 2 years ago when I bought a house. Since then, I just put all my receipts that have anything of value on them in a small box and every couple months spend an hour or two scanning them onto the computer. I started a spreadsheet listing the bigger items and their replacement value and had over $8k listed just for the everyday use items, and I don't have any "nice" tool sets like a lot of member here.

 

[yeldogt]

My sympathy and best wishes to you and your family. Wish I could buy you a

Thanks!


Particular to people on GJ: Make sure that you specify what is in your garage/ shop/ studio. You want to send the agent an e-mail indicating what you have and the approximate value .. ask how these items would be handled should a fire happen .. or other loss. Ask that it be discussed with the underwriter. When you send a direct request and pay a premium -- it becomes very difficult for the company to play games.

Every policy is different -- most list limits per category. The policy will say "We will pay 15k for rugs". Some have a subcategory "we will only pay $500 per damaged rug". What happens if you have two persian rugs worth 5k each and 3 more worth $500.00. Your rugs are under the 15k limit .. but you are only going to get $500.00 each back from the 5k rugs.

Some companies will provide 25k worth of business equipment -- then expressly exclude trade tools.

Most of the mass market companies will only give you the "replacement cost" value after you have bought the item .. prior to that you may only get "ACV" actual cash value. So your $500 set of Snap-on wrenches is only going to get you $125. Some companies will want to clean items -- others will replace.

I could go on and on. My inventory was an 80 page spread-sheet.