Shop Heat

[Boatmedic]

I am working with an Engineer on building a 60’ wide x 100’ long shop. He is asking me what I plan to do to heat it. I was originally looking at a waste oil heater as I will have a source for waste oil. A/C is not required in my neck of the woods.

However, the State I live in has a Governor that wants to save the world by eliminating fossil fuels. He is trying to get sales of new gas-powered cars banned by 2030.

He is also banning fossil fuels in new building construction by 2030 and all other buildings by 2050. Yes, that’s a few years out but I am trying to avoid installing a heating system twice.

If you were faced with the challenge of trying to heat a shop without fossil fuels, because the guvna told you so, how would you heat it?

 

[loganb]

Heat it by waste oil for the first 10 or 15 years

It sounds like waste oil is cheap, so use it and the proven method until other options are cheaper or required by law or necessity.

If possible bring excess electric service into the main panel so when you need a heat pump or some other method down the road that may need higher electric demand you have it. The way CA is going just seems to remove fossil fuels from the end user....power plants are still making it the same way, possibly adding additional electric demand to an already overtaxed grid

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[Don1357]

wouldn't your setup by then be grandfathered in?

 

[couch67]

Assuming you are looking to heat evenly through the shop, wondering if a waste oil heated boiler system feeding in-floor is an option. Probably expensive up front, but folks who have the in-floor systems swear by them. You could swap out or retrofit the boiler when you need to.

Honestly its difficult to imagine what alternatives to fossil fuels we'll be using in 10-30 years - home based fusion generators?

 

[kbeefy]

If you don't burn the waste oil you'll have to pay to get rid of it.
I have a new waste oil heater (replaced a 20 YO one last fall) and I'm enjoying it.

If you do get one, get one with an onboard compressor. My last one didn't and I had to leave my compressor on all winter.

 

[Boatmedic]

wouldn't your setup by then be grandfathered in?

As I understand it, the "all other buildings by 2050" phrase applies here. He wants fossil fuel dependency eliminated.

 

[Shop Specialties]

You are worried you might have to change out the heater in 30 years ? Seriously ? Put the damn thing in and enjoy your free heat and if you are still living there in 30 years worry about it then.

 

[nadogail]

I would get the waste oil heater, and ignore the elected official who will probably be replaced at the end of their term.

Government Officials have made promises that were to last "as long as the grass shall grow and the rivers shall run", study History before making plans.

 

[tdkkart]

Use electric, cuz that's not a fossil fuel, at least not at the point of use, never mind where it's produced.

 

[ericm]

If new gas powered gas cars are banned in 2030 there will still be millions of them around and needing oil changes. But I highly doubt that even California will ban new gas cars by 2030.

Whatever you install now will be worn out and obsolete by 2050. Maybe by then we'll have cheap efficient batteries, even cheaper solar and more effective mini splits, and you'll be able to heat it solely from sun power. Also at the rate things are going you'll probably not have to heat it nearly as much by then.

 

[930dreamer]

X2 on the waste oil heater.

 

[theoldwizard1]

He is also banning fossil fuels in new building construction by 2030 and all other buildings by 2050. Yes, that’s a few years out but I am trying to avoid installing a heating system twice.

I have $20 at 20 to 1 odd that the 2030 date will not happen.

WI, like MI, ***** for solar. Not enough wind. No geo-thermal. No new nuclear. Not enough trees left. Not enough cows to make sufficient methane.

Where is the energy going to come from ?

 

[theoldwizard1]

If new gas powered gas cars are banned in 2030 there will still be millions of them around and needing oil changes. But I highly doubt that even California will ban new gas cars by 2030.

Concur !

There maybe restrictions on where and when they can be driven, but no out right ban.

 

[u2slow]

Even 23 years ago I remember there were politics and approval problems with waste-oil heating systems. I was working in autowrecking then. The shop I worked at stayed on NG.

I would try to get your building complete and signed off with 'cleaner' heating... probably NG if you have it available. If electric is all you have, you need to plan your service accordingly.

Then after the building is done, heat with wood or waste oil until it becomes too prohibitive.

 

[b-boy]

This will be the future - eventually....

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/scie...record-by-running-for-20-seconds-9161531.html

 

[nadogail]

If I recall correctly we were promised almost free nuclear power, including fuel for cars, during the late '40s & very early '50s.

 

[toyotadriver]

The governor is pandering to his base. When the time comes, if the law is still in effect the legislature will pass extension after extension. If he was really serious he would make it take effect now. He isn’t serious. He’s just doing pointless politician ********.

Since I’m about to cross the line into political speech, I’ll stop there. Put in whatever system you want to and don’t worry about being able to use it in the future.

 

[DaveIdaho]

I am working with an Engineer on building a 60’ wide x 100’ long shop. He is asking me what I plan to do to heat it. I was originally looking at a waste oil heater as I will have a source for waste oil. A/C is not required in my neck of the woods.



However, the State I live in has a Governor that wants to save the world by eliminating fossil fuels. He is trying to get sales of new gas-powered cars banned by 2030.



He is also banning fossil fuels in new building construction by 2030 and all other buildings by 2050. Yes, that’s a few years out but I am trying to avoid installing a heating system twice.



If you were faced with the challenge of trying to heat a shop without fossil fuels, because the guvna told you so, how would you heat it?

I’m with most others, put in what you want don’t feel governed. Out west I’m living the silly carbon rules already and theyve not been such that it affects existing structures.

If you had to heat with electric, pull out your wallet now and design with heat pump. Engineer should evaluate air:air as well as air:water types.

Heat pump be lowest operating costs although more first cost versus other good option, electric boiler.


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[tdkkart]

If I recall correctly we were promised almost free nuclear power, including fuel for cars, during the late '40s & very early '50s.

It was the mid-70s here, right when my house was being built, and a new nuclear plant was being proposed in the county, hence the reason my house was built all electric.

The nuke plant is now shut down, they say it's gonna take 60 years or more to fully de-commission the facility.

 

[WisJim]

WI, like MI, ***** for solar. Not enough wind. No geo-thermal. No new nuclear. Not enough trees left. Not enough cows to make sufficient methane.

Having supplied about 95& of my energy from wind and solar, in Western Wisconsin, for the last 35+ years, I have to disagree. We currently charge our car, heat our house (with minisplits), and provide a surplus of electricity from our own PV panels and formerly also a 1940s vintage wind turbine. And at the current price of the equipment needed, it is easier and cheaper for just about anyone to do it, unless they live in deep shade.

 

[spudley]

WI, like MI, ***** for solar.

I'll bet WA is even less sunny than either WI or MI.

 

[Steve in UT]

Move!

 

[Stuart in MN]

I found where Seattle is moving towards banning fossil fuel heat for new construction, and where Washington state is moving towards banning coal powered electrical generation, but nothing that would require you to remove fossil fuel heating from an existing building. Go ahead with the waste oil furnace, they're not going to make you tear it out.

 

[meathooker]

Move!

No!

Well if you do skip right over idaho and go to UT or MT

 

[Shop Specialties]

No!

Well if you do skip right over idaho and go to UT or MT

Montana is full and we are not accepting anymore residents.

 

[My Old Tools]

As I understand it, the "all other buildings by 2050" phrase applies here. He wants fossil fuel dependency eliminated.

And he won't be governor by then.