Shop Insulation and Heat

[JWILLIE1977]

Good evening GJ!!
Looking for some direction/opinions on moving forward with insulating and heating my shop. Was outside this afternoon finishing up the snowblower prep, and decided enough is enough working indoors, in the cold.

Wife and I purchased our house in 2022, on 12.5 acres, with a 24'x32' detached shop/garage.
Shop is stick built on a concrete slab, 2x4 walls, 2x6 rafters, all on 16" centers. 2x6x24' joists on 4' centers. 16' total height at the center. The building has vinyl siding and has a shingled roof. There is a ridge vent the length of the peak.
There is a 7' insulated OH door and mandoor on the north gable end.
Previous owner has run an 80 amp subpanel from the house to power lights, outlets, and a 220v feed for a long-gone hot tub that was under a pergola behind the shop.
At this point, the shop stores my outdoor tools, mower, snowblower etc., but I would like to get all of my tools, toolbox, and workbenches in there for a combined workshop garage space.
Anyway, at this time, there is no insulation, and no heat. PO stuffed fiberglass pieces in the eaves. Inside, It's cold in the winter. . And pretty warm in the summer.

On to the questions.

How do I go about insulating this? I'm leaning towards fiberglass batts, as I can install those myself.

Do I insulate the inside the rafters or just create an 8' "ceiling" and insulate flat on that?
If I insulate up the rafters, do I need to install rafter venting from the eave/soffit all the way to the ridge vent? Every rafter bay? Every other?

Insulating horizontally, on the 8' ceiling, costs me some light duty overhead storage space.
I'm assuming that the 24' 2x6 joists just tie the rafters on each side together, is it possible to raise the joists up, and increase the number of joists without compromising the structural integrity?

Finally, once insulated. . What to use as a heat source?
The house is on propane, so it's possible I could get a line into the shop from the house. There's already electric in conduit, so maybe there's a spare conduit adjacent. If no conduit, could be a chore to get a line 15' from house to shop.

Wood stove?
With 12.5 acres, I have what seems like and infinite supply of standing dead ash trees, thanks to the Emerald Ash Borer.

Pellet stove? Any others?

Sorry for the long winded post, just wanted to get as much info to you guys as I could.

Thanks in advance for your replys!

 

[Firebrick43]

Ceiling at 8' is going to be the most energy efficient and probably easiest and cheapest to install.

It could be fiberglass batts, mineral wool batts, blown in cellulose, or blown in fiberglass. Depends on how much you want. Celloulose gives the best performance of a DIY install. But sometimes all of them have their place/advantages.

24' span ceiling joist are going to be 2x8 on 16" centers for a 10lbs per square foot ceiling (lightweight like R panel liner)
2x10 on 24" centers. You are not going to have light storage above that unless you stepped up to 2x12s on 12" centers.

Propane is the cheapest but you cant bring it from the house in an underground conduit. They will trench a line from the tank and put a regulator on the shop itself.

While I love wood stoves many insurance company's refuse to insure shops with them now days. Dead ash makes for terrible firewood. I would caution you to cut it down as well. Friend had half his face torn off by a dead branch falling from one and if the helicopter hadn't been available he would have died more than likely. We have a good size excavator push them over now.

 

[billconner]

Good advice above.

If you raise the rafter ties/ceiling joists - 32" max - you will likely over stress the rafters, and thus have to reinforce them.

If you could live with a post in center, and a beam, just add rafter ties/ceiling joists between existing, ceiling, insulate. And you'd have capacity for storage.

 

[JWILLIE1977]

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong.

Probably need to decide on the heat source first. Propane was my lead choice, but there is no way to get a line from the tank to the shop, without it coming from the house. Tank is on the east side of the property, shop is on the west side, with the house directly in the middle. Trenching from the tank to the shop is not really an option. Over 150' away. . .driveways, patios etc in the way.
If I can't push a line from the house to the shop, I either need a second propane tank, adjacent to the shop, or a different heat source.

I guess the PO didn't really think things through when building this detached building. Seems wasteful to me to build a building where 33% of the cubic footage is unusable for anything other than cold air storage.
Maybe I need to rethink this whole thing. Wouldnt be all that difficult to lift the roof structure off the 2x4 walls, and replace with 2x6 walls, 10' tall.. . . Or better yet. Take it down, salvage what I can, and rebuild something better. . .

 

[Dig Doug]

i would call an Insulation company out to look and have them tell you what would work best for your situation.

If it were mine I would want the full 16 ft height Open space

They have different types styles that will last longer & be more efficient than just buying and from a Depot type store.
get a couple spec’s quotes, material only you install or just have it all done.

the next thing is what thickness or R- value do you want, The company will let you what is ideal for your usage. Is the garage door insulated?

will you need / want AC during summer? Maybe mini splits heat/ cool ….

I would go w/ separate propane tank for garage - get a price from your current supplier have then install a T and a Valve to both tanks to jump to the house / garage for redundancy w/ a hose, Just in case!

Not knowing what your exact situation is
But
that is the direction I would go

another thing to think about is maintaining a certain temp inside the garage say 50 degrees, if it’s 32 or lower outside and you want to heat it up to 65 for a comfortable working temperature, how long will that take and Then boom it’s lost if you don’t maintain a temperature so a thermostat would be nice to have.


Heat rises so ceiling fans reversed pulling warmer air down might help mix the conditioned space and then reverse during summer along with air flow when it’s hot / warm

 

[Dig Doug]

If you want rafter storage you can get creative on both ends say 4 ft X 24 ft add a couple more 24 ft 2x6’s joists and run 2 or 3 - 45 braces up to the wall

Depends on what you want to store up there…. Seasonal Christmas decorations, patio cushions for summer

heavy items you’d need a post, but you could get creative on where the post goes.

 

[Kpaige]

Easiest thing is add insulation baffles at every cavity then put up 1x4 at the ceiling every 24” o.c. Add min 6 mil poly to the ceiling and install ceiling of choice. Then blow in cellulose 16” deep. As for walls use batts and same 6 mill poly.
YouTube comes in handy for the directions

 

[JWILLIE1977]

I'm open to contacting an insulation company to get their input.

The more I think about it, a secondary propane tank for the shop isn't that big of a deal. I guess I was just more hung up on the reasoning behind not being able to push a line from inside the basement of the house to the shop. There is already a line at that end of the house for the fireplace, seems like it wouldn't be a big deal.
Only looking to keep it warm(er) in the winter. Maybe 50°. Enough melt the snow off the blower. And keep the chill off the hand tools.

I'm only asking about increasing the height of the joists as an effort to make the space feel more open. Rafter storage isn't required. . . As there are only lawn furniture cushions, some extra siding and trim materials, and some other light weight **** up there now.
Maybe it's better off to put the ceiling 24" or so above the existing joists. . And insulate on top of that.
Or, just insulate up the roof to the peak. Yeah it's more cost in insulation, and to heat it. But ceiling fans in the upper space would keep the heat moving down, and the space doesn't feel confined, as with 8' ceiling.

 

[Kpaige]

I'm open to contacting an insulation company to get their input.

The more I think about it, a secondary propane tank for the shop isn't that big of a deal. I guess I was just more hung up on the reasoning behind not being able to push a line from inside the basement of the house to the shop. There is already a line at that end of the house for the fireplace, seems like it wouldn't be a big deal.
Only looking to keep it warm(er) in the winter. Maybe 50°. Enough melt the snow off the blower. And keep the chill off the hand tools.

I'm only asking about increasing the height of the joists as an effort to make the space feel more open. Rafter storage isn't required. . . As there are only lawn furniture cushions, some extra siding and trim materials, and some other light weight **** up there now.
Maybe it's better off to put the ceiling 24" or so above the existing joists. . And insulate on top of that.
Or, just insulate up the roof to the peak. Yeah it's more cost in insulation, and to heat it. But ceiling fans in the upper space would keep the heat moving down, and the space doesn't feel confined, as with 8' ceiling.

You can insulate at the roof you just put insulation shoots in all the way then add your insulation. They are probably 2x4 so not a lot of space even less with the shoots installed. I would add a 2” slab to make them thicker. So you can fit as much as possible. They do a blow in cellulose into walls now that packs full that might be a good option for you.

I keep mine at 45 bump it up if I work out there to 55 or 60.