Shop Layout - Electric Recepticles

[Augus7us]

Hey All,

So a little backstory. I rented a small shop for a few years, then last year bought a house with a 30x40 on it. Concrete floor, walls a roof and 30amp service. The first thing I knew I needed to do was upgrade the electricity.

After watching a video on here I wanted my shop to conform to my workflow and tool addiction as much as possible and this includes the electrical layout. I'm hoping this does not get moved to the electricity forum as I feel it is more about efficiency then an electrical question and will get more eyes here.

I know I'm not alone with my predicament, I have a lot of larger 220v stationary tools. This is all a hobby for me so I don't have any frame of reference for how this is typically done.

The way I did it in my last shop; the breaker box was exposed and mounted to a piece of OSB. So as I bought more tools I would just run another thing of conduit and wire up a new 220 circuit. This was the plan until I started thinking about it and realized I don't want a maze of conduit running all over my building. So I decided to do what I saw in another shop and just run 220 dryer outlets all over the shop.

If I go that route and mount the new breaker box in the wall, I think it will work but I'm worried about how I would handle adding new tools. If I mounted the breaker box in the wall I'd have to tear up drywall if I needed a new run... If I mount it on the surface of the wall I can run conduit and still run my main wiring for lights and all my other recepticles though the wall. Is this my best route?

Sorry I'm rambling a bit so I'll sum it up here. Is there a best practice for this? Something that will not look terrible but also give me room for growth without having to tear my walls down for a new circuit.

I'm outside my wheelhouse here so I apprecitate any help!

-Clint

 

[22george]

Check your building code before you start

 

[matt_i]

I have a similar issue except with 3 phase machines.

I ran a trunk line of large conduit in the attic. Then ran tees down thru the wall to 4" square boxes. Also tees that run under the ceiling to same 4" square boxes.

I put many receptacles in the drywall. I put many receptactles in the ceiling.

They don't all have to be terminated "right now". You can leave wire in there that's a loop long-enough to be cut and landed on the receptacle. I would recommend pigtailing to insure integrity of the dowstream circuit.

Also you can use SO cordage to extend your ability to get to the outlet as the layout changes.

I worked to a fairly specific layout, but then tried to future-proof in case stuff moved around or I had a big project that required things to move around. Time will tell as to whether this was the right tactic.

 

[brownbagg]

i ran recptacle every four feet in conduit on top of the walls, my walls are plywood

 

[JamesW84]

you may want to look up frank howarth's "building the workshop" video. He used a full sheet of plywood on the bottom then cut a piece in half and ran a 2' strip screwed on, so it could be removed to add outlets/wiring.

 

[Augus7us]

I have a similar issue except with 3 phase machines.

I ran a trunk line of large conduit in the attic. Then ran tees down thru the wall to 4" square boxes. Also tees that run under the ceiling to same 4" square boxes.

I put many receptacles in the drywall. I put many receptactles in the ceiling.

Matt are you saying that you ran your 110 outlets behind the drywall and for your 220 you ran those ontop in conduit?

Come to think of it if I wanted to run both behind drywall what kind of wire would I run? Do they make a romex type wire for 220?

-Clint

 

[Augus7us]

you may want to look up frank howarth's "building the workshop" video. He used a full sheet of plywood on the bottom then cut a piece in half and ran a 2' strip screwed on, so it could be removed to add outlets/wiring.

I'll check out the video if I can find it on youtube. But I don't want to use any wood product for sheathing inside for fire safety reasons.

-Clint

 

[ozyborn]

They say you can never have enough outlets in a garage. So...... Doublegang 120's every 3 ft I'd think on every wall, plus same above all work benches and 2 rows on the ceiling for lights,switched. Then where I thought I was placing my 240 toys I wired those spots, then added several more through the garage. Not worried about circuit overload. Just me in my shop so one tool at a time. Toss in a couple outside and a line to my shed.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

For a garage, I prefer the panel to be surface mounted and all electrical in EMT conduit. Easy to add circuits and change based on changing needs and new tools. It also provides a better building envelope for heating and cooling with fewer wall penetrations.

 

[rslaback]

I'd suggest going with a racing stripe motif but have the stripe be a piece of steel about 9inches tall and removable. As you want to mess with your electrical, take that stripe down and do it. Putting the removable piece at stripe height should allow you to run outlets either up or down in the wall easily.

 

[matt_i]

Matt are you saying that you ran your 110 outlets behind the drywall and for your 220 you ran those ontop in conduit?

Come to think of it if I wanted to run both behind drywall what kind of wire would I run? Do they make a romex type wire for 220?

-Clint

120vac outlets are run "inside the walls" with NM-b "romex" stapled to the wood framing.

240vac x 3 phase outlets are run "inside the walls" as well but with PVC conduit feeding them. The vertical conduits in the wall all eventually connect back to a larger diameter "trunk line" in the attic that utimately connects back to the main panel which is located in an adjoining (connected) building. THHN pulled thru the conduits.

I don't see any reason why NM-b cannot support 240vac outlets.

 

[sberry]

A dryer outlet is not for tools. Many have specific over current requirements or allowances. A raceway cover or pipe that can be added to is ideal.

 

[penright]

Just went though this about a year ago. @sberry caution me about over building. If you search for my user in the Lighting & Electrical it might help. I got a lot of wise advice here.

You hear a lot about there is never enough of blank, fill in the blank. When it comes outlets, I not sure if the issue is are there enough, but more in the right place. That's the trick, it is a little bit chicken and egg. You need to work in it some to know better where you need what. The best advice I got was to use 3/4 conduit surface mount. That way you have the best chance to make changes. No matter how much thought you put into this, there will be changes.

One thing I did do right. Since my electrical source was from the house buried in a trench. I had them lay low voltage conduit with the line voltage conduit. I went with 1", after pulling 6 cat6 over 220' though 360 degrees of bend (very thankful for code), I wish it would have been a size bigger.

 

[Blazinzuk]

I am planning a bit of a hybrid system in my shop. I am going to run outlets every 6 feet or so on the walls right now. Extras where I am putting my bench.

But I have already planned on adding some circuits in conduit as my shop progresses and I decide where i want it all.

 

[sberry]

I got a couple places I have 20 ft with none and close to 40 ft of running wall in a corner and have 10 ft with a dozen. I have some behind, some in front and really ran a lot as I went and needed it.
Last storage building I did more pre engineering and got 10x what I needed. Getting it in the right spot is everything, more important than more.
I will change something, I change it for plumbing too, both air and water. After a while it gets less, I redid my air and actually reduced pipe.

 

[teamextreme]

Come to think of it if I wanted to run both behind drywall what kind of wire would I run? Do they make a romex type wire for 220?

-Clint

240v is no different than 120v for selection of wiring method. Romex can be used for either. You choose the type by ampacity (how big it is) based on your load, or breaker being used; number of conductors (generally 2 or 3 w/ground) based on circuit application; and the rating (wet location UF, or dry NM-b).

 

[astroracer]

Having a few 220 outlets in the shop is a good thing but you really don't need to have a dedicated drop for every piece of equipment.
Spend your money on casters and make all of your "stationary" tools mobile. Being able to easily roll big equipment is a huge plus when it comes to working on big sheets and long boards. It is also a good thing when it is time to clean, everything can be rolled out of the way to clean around it. I have three 220V outlets in my 30' x 76' shop. With one HD extension cord and all of my big stuff mobile I have never had an issue plugging one in.
Mark

 

[sberry]

Yes, that works especially if most of the stuff requires the same over current protection. Modern welders only require 30A service. They are allowed on 50A but the current requirements can be way lower.
My welders home is near the panel, I have an outlet/circuit for a home for each. We have a welding bay, they rarely move.
I understand the mobile, my neighbor has a small garage and a ton of stuff packed in, not a big deal to pull a machine out for chores.

 

[sberry]

I saw a job the other day, I think the owner got sold on double circuit everywhere and it cost a lot extra. After they started using it all they figured out they needed about 1/4 of what they had and it would had been as easy to be rather minimalist and add something if they really needed it.
I got a bud with a ton of small stuff, runs it all from 2 120v circuits and 1 for lights. (0% of the work is done from a heavy cord reel, a few items placed but all used 1 at a time.

 

[Augus7us]

Thanks guys its good to know that I'm not the only one that struggles with this. No matter how I think about it, I just can't predict what I may buy. I already know of a few additional 220 tools that I plan on purchasing now that I've doubled my shop size here.

For the tools I know I want I plan on putting drops there and for my existing tools. But there is always that unknown factor.

Some of you may have seen my recent tablesaw purchase thread. I didn't plan on buying a tablesaw but that deal was too sweet to pass up and I always wanted one. Who knows what the next 220 score will be

-Clint

 

[Augus7us]

Having a few 220 outlets in the shop is a good thing but you really don't need to have a dedicated drop for every piece of equipment.
Spend your money on casters and make all of your "stationary" tools mobile. Being able to easily roll big equipment is a huge plus when it comes to working on big sheets and long boards. It is also a good thing when it is time to clean, everything can be rolled out of the way to clean around it. I have three 220V outlets in my 30' x 76' shop. With one HD extension cord and all of my big stuff mobile I have never had an issue plugging one in.
Mark

Yes, that works especially if most of the stuff requires the same over current protection. Modern welders only require 30A service. They are allowed on 50A but the current requirements can be way lower.
My welders home is near the panel, I have an outlet/circuit for a home for each. We have a welding bay, they rarely move.
I understand the mobile, my neighbor has a small garage and a ton of stuff packed in, not a big deal to pull a machine out for chores.

Unfortunately I can't put most of my tools on rollers, nor do I want to have to plug them in every time I use them, as they will all be used frequently in my work flow and most are metal working. Andfor my machinist type tool(s) I don't want to have to tram them all the time and what not.

Now for my formerly unplanned woodshop, I have no choice, that is going to have to go on rollers and into a corner in the shop when not in use. I can't sacrifice room for my metal working tools, that's why I have the shop in the first place! Plus, thanks to you all here, I've already claimed part of it for a lift... This site can be a curse at times

-Clint

 

[Augus7us]

120vac outlets are run "inside the walls" with NM-b "romex" stapled to the wood framing.

240vac x 3 phase outlets are run "inside the walls" as well but with PVC conduit feeding them. The vertical conduits in the wall all eventually connect back to a larger diameter "trunk line" in the attic that utimately connects back to the main panel which is located in an adjoining (connected) building. THHN pulled thru the conduits.

I don't see any reason why NM-b cannot support 240vac outlets.

Do you happen to have photos of this? I think I am visualizing what you are saying but I'd like to be sure and just see how you set it up.

Thanks!

-Clint

 

[matt_i]

Have a few photos. The entire build is best found with google "garage journal tool crib of the north".

Trunk line in attic, in this case 1" conduit. It involves a little pipe-fitting but no big deal with PVC. The branches are bushed down to use 3/4" PVC.






240vac box next to 120vac box.



240vac

 

[Augus7us]

Thanks Matt, that looks nice and gives me a few ideas.

I think I'm going run 110 and some 220 in the wall to locations I know will be used and what type of tool will be there (about 6 currently) and then run a trunk conduit in the attic like you've got there and prep a few expansion locations I will run in conduit on the wall coming down from the attic. That should give me plenty of runs up front and a way to add existing runs down the road if I need to and not have a dr sues mess of pipes all over the shop.

Appreciate all the input

-Clint