Shop vac or dust collector?

[drb007]

I am getting ready to make the next addition to my shop...dust collection. I could use some advice.
The most consistent source of dust, and the most pressing reason for adding this feature, is the wood lathe(s). My daughter turns 3-5 days a week, and while she wears a mask, it still gets dusty, especially with sanding. Right now I have set up the shop vac to act as a dust collector, which actually works quite well. I know there are dust shields that hook up to formal dust collectors. I will likely incorporate something like that.

Other occasional dust sources vary from metal grinding, auto body sanding, wire wheeling old arn, wood working, etc. I also will rattle can spray small parts in the shop.

I have a Mini Split heat pump heating and cooling in my shop, and it likes to pretend it is an air cleaner for the shop. I usually turn it off when doing dusty work.

I have only 30 amp service to my shop. In the 5 years that I have worked out there, I have only blown the main breaker 3 times. The last two happened when my daughter was turning on the Yates J170, had the shop van running, heat on, and I tried using the band saw. The shop vac seemed to be the variable, because I usually run anything I want while she's working and we don't have issues.

I am limited on shop space, so I want to ad an addition of the outside wall of the shop right behind the lathe area. A small closet type room. My question is this:
Do I put a shop vac or a true dust collector in that closet? Which system would give me more power with less amp draw? I don't typically make that must saw dust, more a general room mess. I am considering adding a room air cleaner too, if they work as advertised. Most of my tools are vintage arn, and don't have true dust collection hook ups.

Sorry for the long rambling post. Just wanted to paint a somewhat detailed picture of what I have and what I need.
Thanks
Dave

 

[Coloshaver]

Sort of on topic since it might be a solution for the OP, but does anyone have any experience with a Dust Deputy?

See: http://www.oneida-air.com/category.asp?Id={CC6B6F2A-E3D7-4F18-A53C-B5C357DFE131}

I am thinking about trying it with a blast cabinet. I have a shop vacuum and adding this might be just the ticket.

 

[PRH44]

Just purchased A dust deputy haven't installed it yet. I did a lot of research and the Dust Deputy always had high ratings. I have seen it in action and I was very impressed.

 

[brucer]

I've seen articles of people building home made dust collectors using shopvacs and 50 gal drum or large garbage can..

 

[Randy in Maine]

You can buy a pretty decent dust collection system for pretty reasonable money. I have a 1.5 HP Delta set up and used some PVC to extend it to where I need it to be, but I only run one machine at a time so I just direct the vacuum where I am working.

I also have a Shop Vac and use it to where I am not pre-plumbed.

 

[BFBOB]

Get a dust collector that's designed to be a dust collector. That means an induction motor rated for continuous duty, not a brush motor as mobile shop vacuums have. Even a relative cheapie will last for many, many years, and be dramatically quieter. I got a 3 hp unit even for my small shop; the 1 hp just didn't move enough air. You can use plastic tubing for the ducting, but metal is at least theoretically safer. There can be static buildup in plastic duct which could lead to a spark and fire or even a dust explosion. I haven't heard of it happening, but it's possible. If you use plastic, it should be grounded. Run solid duct to blast gates near your tools, flexible duct down to collection scoops at the tools, and only open the gates for the tools in use. I have them at my table saw, router table, jointer, planer and over the workbench for sanding. It wasn't difficult or expensive and has sure made life easier. I spent less than $500 on the whole setup. I did cheat a bit and use standard HVAC parts for the pickup scoops.
One thing I have been tempted to do if I had more space is add a homemade cyclonic pre-separator. Lots of plans are available all over the web.
Just don't try to use a shop vac to do a dust collector's job.
Look up websites more oriented to woodworking for lots and lots of details. It ain't rocket science, but a few hours' reading could tell you tricks you might not think of.

 

[Thumper68]

I have my 2hp 220v dust collector in a small shed off the back of my shop.

Kinda nice having the noise out of the shop.

I run a hood/scoop on the wood lathe and it works ok.

I also have a air cleaner, shop built, hanging from the ceiling that helps a lot with painting and grinding.

Easy to build just a plywood box with 3 furnace filters and a squirrel cage fan that draws air through the filters.

 

[WilltheEngineer]

I'd highly advise having one for metal work, and one for wood work.

Small:
I'd suggest a Ridgid high CFM vac, dust deputy, & give gallon bucket. If u want easy cleaning, get a bag line for the vac...not much will end up in the vac, but it will keep ur filter clean.
http://t.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-16-Gal-Wet-Dry-Vac-WD1851/100638360/

Large:
Harbor Freight Dust collector, Wynn filter, large dust deputy, 20-40 gallon trash can....Or a Grizzly tools or Oneida (dust deputy) system. HF $, Grizzly $$, Oneida$$$.

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html
http://wynnenv.com/woodworking-filters/
*FYI the Wynn 35a type filter comes with clamps for the HF filter....so it's Plug n Play..

http://www.grizzly.com/products/category/570000|570030|570010|570020

http://www.oneida-air.com/category.asp?id={B1DB7A85-BA77-47BA-83B5-BD7EA4FA0DD5}

Also check craigslist.....

Hope this helps...

 

[WilltheEngineer]

Also, I have the HF DC, and it can work on a 20amp ckt...

 

[Fizbin]

There can be static buildup in plastic duct which could lead to a spark and fire or even a dust explosion. I haven't heard of it happening, but it's possible. If you use plastic, it should be grounded.

Possible but not probable... we're not talking about industrial sized dust collectors here.

I would go with WilltheEngineer's suggestion for the small or large configuration.

I have the HF dust collector, which I reconfigured into a more compact and free-standing mobile unit. But I use a Thein separator with it instead of a Dust Deputy. It works just as good.

 

[drb007]

Thanks guys. I think the dust collector seems to be my answer. Now to find the right one. I'm a CL addict, always looking for a good deal

 

[WilltheEngineer]

-007, you can also do a quick bubble-gum budget separator (not as good as a super dust deputy or Thein separator, but probably good enough for what you want to do) with a trash can lid. If you don't have much time (aka..have kids), don't need a large CFM, n save a couple $$$...this might be the best option.
http://www.rockler.com/dust-right-4-dust-separator-components
If you search, u can usually find a free rockler shipping or % off coupon code.

Also, you can usually find the HF DC on sale for $150-159.. N can use a 20% off coupon on them.
Dust Deputy/usually have a year end sale as well.

 

[katmat]

I came across some new Viking Dustless sanding systems that would work great for a wood shop. Send me a P.M. if you want more info.
Matt

 

[The Frisco Kid]

I almost can't believe that you've run a wood lathe for very long without a dust collector of some type! Prepare for a much cleaner shop and better visibility!!

Agree with all above, use a true dust collector not a shop vac. Start with connecting the dust collector at the lathe and add on piping and gates as needed or an afford it. If you can do it all at once, even better!

I highly suggest a pre-collector dust separator ala trash can with elbows or rockler cyclone can topper. Saves time and makes cleaning the collector much easier IMO.

Jet makes a good air filtration unit that I have. It mounts on the ceiling and has a remote. It can turn over the air in my entire shop a few times an hour but I use saws and routers much more than a lathe, so the fine dust is particularly bad in my shop.


___________________

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[Rust]

Any well rounded shop would have both IMO.

 

[djjsr]

Other occasional dust sources vary from metal grinding, auto body sanding, wire wheeling old arn, wood working, etc.

Don't mix metal grinding with saw dust.

 

[texasOFT]

Regardless of which way you go add a dust/chip separator such as a Thein baffle. See the link below:

http://www.jpthien.com/

You can make a small one (5 gallon bucket) for a vacuum or a large one (40-50gallon can) for a dust collection unit. I made one (40 gallon) and it separates out 95+% of the dust and chips. Save a lot of filter cleaning. Mine is a "Top Hat" Thein baffle - google for information.

I use mine with a harbor freight dust collector and added 1 micron canister filter on top. Used drain pipe pvc for runs. Whole thing cost less than $500.

I also recommend use of a wood shop air filter. I have a couple of air filters (1 micron furnace filters) made to keep the woodshop air clean. One is small and hangs on the wall, the other is a blower out of central heating unit with a filter on each side - mounted on wheels so it can be moved around. You can even use a box fan with a filter taped on.

 

[Keep]

You are talking about trying to do 2 things with your dust collection.

1 - the big chips at the source - while a shop vac can do this, it does not do it very well. A 1 HP or better dust collector is the way to go.
2 - the airborne small dust. A shop vac, or dust collector cannot do this. You need a air scrubber/filter for this. Usually hang from the ceiling and filters all the airborne stuff.

You can also build yourself an air scrubber with an old hvac fan, some plywood and furnace filters. I used to have an article scanned that showed how to build one, I will see if I can track it down.

If you are up for some reading, here is more then you will ever want to know:
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

 

[PetesPonies]

Use a shop vac with a separator. You can buy them reasonably priced and it makes all the difference.

 

[Kev442]

I don't know how you guys keep a shopvac alive running it steady like that. Mine started shooting sparks and blew up less than halfway through my woodworking needs. Bought a cheapie dust collector and never looked back.
I use it to vacuum the floor when I'm done too, it is three times faster than a shopvac on sawdust. I feel like the fall loose leaf guy when I'm walking around swinging that hose!

 

[PetesPonies]

I have a Craftsman shop vac I have had for 25 years . . no lie. I guess good ones live on

 

[Kev442]

I have a Craftsman shop vac I have had for 25 years . . no lie. I guess good ones live on

But how many days has it run for 6 hours more or less straight through? That's what it needs to do for heavy woodworking. Mine died on the tablesaw while I made 2500 feet of carsiding.

 

[PetesPonies]

True, not long hours like that. But worked hard and put away wet
These "small" separator systems, I don't see them as an answer for long intervals like you mention. I see them working well when planning some boards, using the band saw, the table saw etc, for a few minutes here and there. Building tables , furniture etc. Not what you describe.

 

[mattygee]

I cobbed up a decent 2 stage system with a Reliant 1hp dust collector, the Dust Deputy a 55 gallon drum and a .5 micron filter cartridge. I'ts not the prettiest ******* the parade float, but it does a decent job. Probably have $400 in it altogether.

 

[PDXCummins]

Dust collector all the way

 

[sgs]

I recently picked up a new central vac unit for a song. Plan on putting it in the attic then plumbing the inlet into a shop wall mounted canister with a dust deputy cyclone mounted to it. Also a 50 foot garage shop hose.

No noise from the vacume unit (in the attic)...cheap to put together...and easy to empty the secondary canister. Bonus is no floor space eaten up with big-*** shop vac.

Gordon S.

 

[Thruxton]

You are talking about trying to do 2 things with your dust collection.

1 - the big chips at the source - while a shop vac can do this, it does not do it very well. A 1 HP or better dust collector is the way to go.
2 - the airborne small dust. A shop vac, or dust collector cannot do this. You need a air scrubber/filter for this. Usually hang from the ceiling and filters all the airborne stuff.

You can also build yourself an air scrubber with an old hvac fan, some plywood and furnace filters. I used to have an article scanned that showed how to build one, I will see if I can track it down.

If you are up for some reading, here is more then you will ever want to know:
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

I completely agree with this, having used one for almost 20 years now. I have a 2hp dust collector, outside the shop because of the noise, and plumbed into the shop with a Rockler slinky (one of my all-time favorite shop improvements), but whenever I am going to run any wood machines for a while, I turn on my ceiling mounted air scrubber. I bought it when I lived in a house where the NG furnace was located in my shop, and the intake air was the shop air, so you can see why I needed it. These things work really well- when running after just a little while I think my shop air is cleaner than the air in the house.

And I also agree with djjsr's comment- don't mix metal swarf and wood shavings, it can be a fire hazard.

 

[JakeKohl]

I second the notion for a dust collector. Vacuums are for cleaning. Dust collectors are rated for continuous duty. I have 2hp Jet with the micron canister and vortex action. I use it for everything from cleaning up metal shavings at the drill press, auto body sander dust collection, wood work, cleaning the floor, etc...(just watch that you don't put hot chips in it!). It's amazing how long it can go between cleanings and emptying. It stung a little when I bought it but I've never looked back and thought I could have done that better or cheaper.