Shop windows / Heat

[Dalton308]

Hey all, first post, and I actually did search for what I'm asking.

Everybody knows that there is no R value to windows, but I'm wondering if there is any proven window that cuts down on heat loss, or window application such as a plastic covering?

I'm in the late stages of planning a 32' x 48' x 16' shop in Montana, and would put up normal lighting, and probably will anyway, but the thought of having more windows is great to cut down on the lighting bill.

My only idea right now with the proposed widows, about 12 feet up on the walls, would be to crawl up there with multiple layers of a homemade cardboard / insulation type blocker for all the windows, but that would defeat the purpose of having the windows from October to April.

I'm just wondering if people in Cold climates have any tried and true solutions?

Thanks.

 

[Pluribus]

https://www.energydepot.com/RPUcom/library/BUILD001.asp

Winter R values of windows:

Single Pane: .96
Double Pane with .25" gap: 1.72
Double Pane with .5" gap: 2.04
Triple Pane with .25" gap: 2.56
Triple Pane with .5" gap: 3.22

There are probably online calculators where you can put in window area vs. wall area to get total values. Might even be ways to calculate payback on increased cost of components.

 

[66Caprice]

Put your window cover panel on a hinge at the top then a pulley and rope so you can pull it open when needed. It would just swing up then tie off the rope to hold it open.

 

[maxpat82]

lighting cost wayyyyyy far less then heating!

 

[Dalton308]

Winter R values of windows:

Single Pane: .96
Double Pane with .25" gap: 1.72
Double Pane with .5" gap: 2.04
Triple Pane with .25" gap: 2.56
Triple Pane with .5" gap: 3.22

There are probably online calculators where you can put in window area vs. wall area to get total values. Might even be ways to calculate payback on increased cost of components.

Thanks. I'm surprised it even gets to 3.

 

[Dalton308]

Put your window cover panel on a hinge at the top then a pulley and rope so you can pull it open when needed. It would just swing up then tie off the rope to hold it open.

Well, I would design that for the engineering fun, but I would never use it when the windows would only be 12 feet up.

 

[Dalton308]

lighting cost wayyyyyy far less then heating!

Yeah, I have to figure that out. My Feit lighting from Costco for my regular garage won't do much at 16 feet.

 

[Robby321]

Heavy drapes...easy

 

[NUTTSGT]

Build some brackets to hold some foam sheets during the Winter. The days are shorter during the Winter so the loss of daylight with them covered probably won't be much of a worry.

I'd rather pay for LED lighting than more on the heating bill. Fortunately, I heat with wood so garage's winter bill is rather cheap.

 

[Dalton308]

Heavy drapes...easy

Sure... Give me those extra 32 degrees from the South Puget and I'll try that!

 

[Dalton308]

Build some brackets to hold some foam sheets during the Winter. The days are shorter during the Winter so the loss of daylight with them covered probably won't be much of a worry.

I'd rather pay for LED lighting than more on the heating bill. Fortunately, I heat with wood so garage's winter bill is rather cheap.

Yeah, I'm thinking about a cardboard cutout to match the exact windows, then completely filling the cutout with Corbond.

JM claims their Corbond has an R-7 value per inch, so that would do it. I'll be Corbonding the whole building anyway on all the seams.

 

[Stuart in MN]

The days are shorter during the Winter so the loss of daylight with them covered probably won't be much of a worry.

On the other hand, winter is when you'll most appreciate having the sun shine in. I'd go with insulated windows, or at least storm windows over single pane windows.

 

[Dalton308]

On the other hand, winter is when you'll most appreciate having the sun shine in. I'd go with insulated windows, or at least storm windows over single pane windows.

Yeah, I'll go the cheaper route because I can put in the Corbond blockers if it's too cold. Getting above an R-5 window would take away cash from my other needs.

 

[matt_i]

If you get the silver foam board you can get R12 in 2" thick, or pink foam 2" is R10.

It clearly stated on a label on each of the Andersen windows I got (400 series) that u = 0.25, which in mathematics u = 1/R. I was pretty happy to get R=4 but the above values would suggest otherwise.

I'm not sure if any of the foams are UV stabilized, so a wrap or skin even with cardboard would be a good idea. Some cautions for trapping moisture behind the foam and affecting the wood frame if the blockers aren't removed very often....

https://www.andersenwindows.com/~/m...windows-patiodoors-nfrcratings--400series.pdf

One can do a very rough heat loss calculation of BTU/hr = SQFT * (deg F)/ (R-value) where deg F is the thermal delta from inside to outside. Look at all 6 surfaces of the "cube" in your shop and add them up, walls can of course have a combination of insulated walls, windows, man and garage doors but add the BTU/hr value of each type of square footage separately to the total

 

[Voi]

I'm in the late stages of planning a 32' x 48' x 16' shop in Montana, and would put up normal lighting, and probably will anyway, but the thought of having more windows is great to cut down on the lighting bill.

Some belive in putting low (or is it high?) SHGC windows on the south sides of buildings in this hemisphere. You could use Google to search that acronym on the Green Building Advisor website.

Any chance you'll have your overhead doors on a south wall? You could order them with a row or two of windows & still have the up high.

 

[Dalton308]

If you get the silver foam board you can get R12 in 2" thick, or pink foam 2" is R10.

It clearly stated on a label on each of the Andersen windows I got (400 series) that u = 0.25, which in mathematics u = 1/R. I was pretty happy to get R=4 but the above values would suggest otherwise.

I'm not sure if any of the foams are UV stabilized, so a wrap or skin even with cardboard would be a good idea. Some cautions for trapping moisture behind the foam and affecting the wood frame if the blockers aren't removed very often....

https://www.andersenwindows.com/~/m...windows-patiodoors-nfrcratings--400series.pdf

One can do a very rough heat loss calculation of BTU/hr = SQFT * (deg F)/ (R-value) where deg F is the thermal delta from inside to outside. Look at all 6 surfaces of the "cube" in your shop and add them up, walls can of course have a combination of insulated walls, windows, man and garage doors but add the BTU/hr value of each type of square footage separately to the total

Thanks. I see Home Depot has the Pink R10, with one sheet having 4 cuts based on the windows I'm looking at. Whether I use 2 or 4 cuts per window is all dependent.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/JELD-WEN-V...8-in-x-24-in-Actual-47-5-in-x-23-5-in/3721184

The cheaper route that does work to an extent is the cardboard, 3 or 4 layers with double bubble foil on both sides. I haven't done official experiments, but have taken them down in the Winter and noticed the big difference in the garage, and have done the same in the summer. It's at least 20 degrees cooler in the summer.

As far as the moisture trapping, you're 100 percent right, the trapped frost takes the paint right off the window sill.

 

[Dalton308]

Some belive in putting low (or is it high?) SHGC windows on the south sides of buildings in this hemisphere. You could use Google to search that acronym on the Green Building Advisor website.

Any chance you'll have your overhead doors on a south wall? You could order them with a row or two of windows & still have the up high.

Something to look into, thanks. It looks like manufacturers ditched the High in favor of the Low, but that was just one article from 2009. I'll have all that on a notepad to ask at Lowe's or other places.

The South wall will probably just be 2 windows and a Man door. I might put a small car door there, but that's right where the car lift is supposed to go, so I know I would rather have shelving.

 

[28HopUp]

How about using a 3M window film insulating kit? I found one on the Lowe's website.

 

[Dalton308]

How about using a 3M window film insulating kit? I found one on the Lowe's website.

I thought about that, meaning my Brother did that this year in the same town, and I didn't. I'll have to ask him if it did anything.

On Amazon, the film by Frost King claims to increase the R-value of single pane windows by 90 percent, which means to me that Saran wrap probably does the same.

It also says on the box that it prevents 35% heat loss, and the savings can be $500* I don't know where they get that.

Thanks for the idea, but I think if that was a solution, they would advertise it on the news or in the paper etc. to "make sure you shrink film your windows before winter."

 

[rburke65]

As said, lighting fixtures are less expensive than heat.

 

[Dalton308]

Here is a link my Brother sent me, said it worked a lot better in a different house than what he did this Winter...

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/energy/conservation/basics_1/window_cover.htm

 

[glazier1]

Aluminum thermal-break fixed windows with low ”e” insulated glass might a good compromise. You could use matching bottom-hinged, project-in windows with pole hardware for ventilation when needed. These types of clerestory windows can be butted together.
Doug

 

[Dalton308]

Aluminum thermal-break fixed windows with low ”e” insulated glass might a good compromise. You could use matching bottom-hinged, project-in windows with pole hardware for ventilation when needed. These types of clerestory windows can be butted together.
Doug

I have no idea what you just said, but Thanks. I'll run that by the people that do at Lowe's.